Offer on House- Over the Top or not?

[April20]

I'm posting this in Hangout because there's more traffic.

My inlaws have thad their townhome on the market for six months. It's an end unit and fully renovated. Beautifully. Updated kitchen, crown moulding throughout the main floor, hardwood nearly everwhere and unbelievable master bath. The down market already has them about $50K what it probably would have sold for three years ago. They finally got an offer today. They're already listed at nearly their rock bottom and the offer was for $10K below list, they asked for nearly $6K in closing and they asked for the kitchen island (mobile), the patio furniture, the office furniture, the guest room furniture and get this, the flat screen TV in the bedroom for.... drumroll please- TEN DOLLARS.

I personally think this offer is obnoxious. I get going under the asking price in a down market and I get asking for closing costs. It's the ask for a lot of high quality furniture and the TV for ten dollars that kills me. I think it's really over the top. Am I alone in this? They've countered at full list price, less towards closing, the office furniture and more money for the kitchen island but no go on everything else. We'll see how the buyers respond.

 

[Miss Sparkly]

It seems that buyers these days think they can get away with about anything. When we were selling our house (granted ours was a short sell) the buyers SWORE that they couldn't afford more than $60,000 (which was WAY less than the asking price) and that we'd never get our asking price anyway. We did get our asking price. I think they're just trying to push the limits and see what they can get - and yes, it is rude.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm posting this in Hangout because there's more traffic.

My inlaws have thad their townhome on the market for six months. It's an end unit and fully renovated. Beautifully. Updated kitchen, crown moulding throughout the main floor, hardwood nearly everwhere and unbelievable master bath. The down market already has them about $50K what it probably would have sold for three years ago. They finally got an offer today. They're already listed at nearly their rock bottom and the offer was for $10K below list, they asked for nearly $6K in closing and they asked for the kitchen island (mobile), the patio furniture, the office furniture, the guest room furniture and get this, the flat screen TV in the bedroom for.... drumroll please- TEN DOLLARS.

...tell your inlaws to give them "the middel finger"...

 

[tsavvy]

In this market, I would expect most buyers to offer a bit below the listing price (2-4%) and to hope to split the closing costs, but to expect the seller to part with their furniture, tv, etc. is ridiculous unless the seller has indicated that they were willing to include those items in the sale. It is completely appropriate for your in-laws to counteroffer. Hopefully some better buyers will turn up!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I guess the offer is only terrible if you get another better one, right? It is pretty cheeky though.

 

[slg47]

I understand giving an offer less than the list price and wanting help with closing costs, but expecting them to part with furniture/electronics for ten dollars doesn't seem right. ten dollars? that's just insulting.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Very bizzare. Also, extremely unprofessional of the realtor to even put that offer down in writing.

 

[partgypsy]

Did the ad mention it was a house sale, not a rummage sale? If not rude, very odd, almost makes me feel it's not an honest offer. honestly if I were their realtor I'd be embarrassed.

 

[iheartscience]

Very bizzare. Also, extremely unprofessional of the realtor to even put that offer down in writing.

Ditto MC and partgypsy. I think that's insulting and obnoxious and I'm shocked any realtor would put that in an offer.

 

[decodelighted]

I was watching an episode of "My First Sale" the other day and buyers tried to get

*two flat screen tvs
*washer
*dryer
and some other random stuff I can't remember

FOR FREE. Just "included". Yet, on the other hand, I listened as an acquaintance talked about how a they rejected a legit full price offer over the request to include the CUSTOM CURTAINS that would be useless in any other house. Weirdness goes both ways I guess.

 

[hihowareyou]

I'd say that they are not expecting to have that offer accepted but are starting their negotiations there in order to hopefully get a little more than they might otherwise at the end.

It does come across pretty insulting though. I'm the kind of stubborn person who would probably walk away to spite them.

 

[Haven]

I definitely think it's a bizarre offer, and it would make me pause and consider whether it was serious.

That being said, I never understand why people say realtors or buyers should be embarrassed to make certain offers, or why sellers get offended by offers. This is a business transaction, why all the emotional responses? If you don't like the offer, decline it. If you want to counter, counter.

When we bought our house two summers ago our realtor said "I can't put in THIS offer, they'll be offended!" We said "That's ridiculous. Give it a try." Sure enough she did, and we bought our house for more than 10% under the list price, and nobody seemed to be offended at all--they sold it to us, didn't they?

 

[charbie]

Very bizzare. Also, extremely unprofessional of the realtor to even put that offer down in writing.

agreed. i'd be PISSERED if someone offers me that for my house. (its currently on the market.)

 

[charbie]

I definitely think it's a bizarre offer, and it would make me pause and consider whether it was serious.

That being said, I never understand why people say realtors or buyers should be embarrassed to make certain offers, or why sellers get offended by offers. This is a business transaction, why all the emotional responses? If you don't like the offer, decline it. If you want to counter, counter.

When we bought our house two summers ago our realtor said "I can't put in THIS offer, they'll be offended!" We said "That's ridiculous. Give it a try." Sure enough she did, and we bought our house for more than 10% under the list price, and nobody seemed to be offended at all--they sold it to us, didn't they?

hmmm. i get what you mean. in this market, offering 10-15% under is normal. however, the thing that gets me is the offer to buy all the items in the house for $10. i think that is the part they shouldn't have included.

 

[Iowa Lizzy]

Actually, I get why it's emotional. I mean, it's your house. Especially if people are moving because they have to (relocating, can't afford it anymore, etc).

We have had our house on the market for almost four months. We have had one offer. They offered us $50,000 less than what we were asking. Yes, you read that correctly, $50,000 less. And it's not like it's a million dollar house. We had it listed at $300K.

As my dad phrased it, "they were trying to see if they could steal it from you." I was royally pissed when that offer came in. We're moving because my husband was offered one of those "just can't refuse" jobs that happens to be out of state and we've only had our house for a year. It's our first house, we bought it together right after we got engaged. I get emotional because I'm sad to be losing it. I pictured us in that house for at least the next few years.

Back to the original question, yes, I think it's terribly over the top. I can't believe they would request all of that for $10. Ridiculous.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

I would be telling them to stick it!

How rude and insulting. If this was their way to open up negotiations it's certainly not a very good one.

I wouldn't sell it to them if they went $10 000 above the asking price just on principle.

 

[Arkteia]

In a way, it would be less offensive if they did not add these $ 10.00. Just asked for the furniture.
The way it sounds, they are asking your parents to fully firnish the house for ten extra dollars.

 

[steph72276]

In a way, it would be less offensive if they did not add these $ 10.00. Just asked for the furniture.
The way it sounds, they are asking your parents to fully firnish the house for ten extra dollars.

That's how I feel. They should have just asked for x, y, and z furniture to be included in the sales price. Adding the $10 is insulting and rude and I would have told them if I were their agent.

 

[rhbgirl24]

I've worked in Real Estate for over ten years, now in govern. foreclosure real estate. The realtors I used to work with would never have put this offer in writing - its an embarrasment!

 

[Haven]

I came back to apologize if I offended anyone, especially you, April. I'm sorry if my last post offended you, that wasn't my intent.

This is actually a larger question I have about real estate, and I didn't mean to sound critical of your response. I DO think the $10 offer for all of those goods is a very bizarre thing, and I understand how that would be offensive to your in-laws. IN GENERAL, I often wonder why the professionals involved with selling homes (real estate agents in particular) use the rhetoric of emotion to discourage sellers from making "low-ball" offers. However, I realize that THIS isn't the appropriate place to add that comment, so I'm sorry.

 

[dcgator]

Very bizzare. Also, extremely unprofessional of the realtor to even put that offer down in writing.

Ditto MC and partgypsy. I think that's insulting and obnoxious and I'm shocked any realtor would put that in an offer.

Just fyi - As a licensed (though non-practicing) real estate associate, if the agent has a contract with buyer (or seller) for that matter, it is a part of thier duties as a real estate associate to present all offers, whether they think its insulting or not. I wouldn't blame the realtor in this case, but rather the obnoxious people who offered this.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Like others have stated, I think the $10 TV clause was ridiculous, but I don't think that in this market, asking for furniture to be included is offensive. Our realtor said that a lot of times the furniture is used as a bargaining tool. We did end up buying some furniture from the previous owner of our house, but that wasn't discussed until after the P&S was signed.

I'm in the camp that buying a house is purely a business transaction, so we always came in 10% or below on any offer--two were accepted, one was not (and they did seem "offended", however asked us to resubmit a month later).

Good luck to your in-laws, April! I've never sold a house, but have no doubt that it must be very stressful!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

They have the right to counter. I think it depends on how desperate they are to sell.

 

[swimmer]

In this market, I would expect most buyers to offer a bit below the listing price (2-4%) and to hope to split the closing costs, but to expect the seller to part with their furniture, tv, etc. is ridiculous unless the seller has indicated that they were willing to include those items in the sale. It is completely appropriate for your in-laws to counteroffer. Hopefully some better buyers will turn up!

I'm in agreement that the $10 offer was simply outrageous. However in this market I've been tracking the recently sold comps where we are in the process of searching for and now buying a house. I think most buyers would LOVE to be offered 2-4% below asking, but are facing much steeper reductions. I've found that 60% of houses in the area we are looking are selling at 15% or more below original listing. This is not an area where a "bubble burst" either. Many sellers seem to think that it is 2007, and many buyers believe CNBC that houses are being given away. It is a crazy time in real estate for sure.

I keep looking up what people owe on the house they are selling and it is not unusual to find they owe 600k on a house now listed in the mid 500k range. I agree with Haven. If you want to sell a house, it has to be thought of like any commodity. HGTV sellers says that, once you list your house, don't think of it as your home anymore, it belongs to the marketplace, so let go of the emotional ties and think about the next house as a home.

Good luck April to your inlaws selling their place, hopefully someone will make a better offer!

 

[TravelingGal]

Actually, I get why it's emotional. I mean, it's your house. Especially if people are moving because they have to (relocating, can't afford it anymore, etc).

We have had our house on the market for almost four months. We have had one offer. They offered us $50,000 less than what we were asking. Yes, you read that correctly, $50,000 less. And it's not like it's a million dollar house. We had it listed at $300K.

As my dad phrased it, "they were trying to see if they could steal it from you." I was royally pissed when that offer came in. We're moving because my husband was offered one of those "just can't refuse" jobs that happens to be out of state and we've only had our house for a year. It's our first house, we bought it together right after we got engaged. I get emotional because I'm sad to be losing it. I pictured us in that house for at least the next few years.

Back to the original question, yes, I think it's terribly over the top. I can't believe they would request all of that for $10. Ridiculous.

Travel Goddess, I know it's hard not to get emotional, but if you have had one offer in 4 months, it could be your house is overpriced. What you are asking is NOT what your house is actually worth. It's what people are willing to pay. And right now, that price is 50K less than asking. My guess is that the price actually lies somewhere in between, but you won't know until your house is actually sold. I hope it sells soon!

 

[House Cat]

I think the first offer is always just a place to start. Some people might throw in extras in order to allow the seller to knock those items off with the thinking that they are playing some psychological game. "If we let the seller think they're knocking items off, they won't notice the price," sort of thing. It's really not effective because most sellers are all about their bottom line which is the price of the house.

Yes, it was a very bizarre offer. Considering it is their only offer, they should work with it.


I just put an offer on a house that is almost $30000 less than the asking price. The comps in the area support this offer. The house is priced too high. Now, the seller has the option to work with us or tell us to kiss off. If they're smart, they'll work with us because they have no other offers. I'm not trying to "steal the house." I'm trying to buy it at fair market value.

I just played this game with an emotional seller who thought his house was worth way more than market value. We allowed the seller to push up our offer price by $18,000 during the offer/counter offer process. We were in escrow, things were moving along, etc. Home inspection done, appraisal done, and guess what? The appraisal came back with the home being valued at $40,000 LESS than what we offered. The seller said he CAN'T go that low, deal fell through. I'm not sure what he plans on doing, considering his home is not going to appraise for the value he wants and the home is a flip. That's not my problem now. However, I was out $800 in fees for the inspection and appraisal. From now on, I will trust my instincts and the comps to guide my offers on the homes in this area.

In our local market, if a home is priced fair, it won't stay on the market for more than a week. I always assume that if a home has been on the market for months, it's either priced too high or there is something wrong with it. Upgrades are nice, but they can't compensate for things like neighborhood, busy street, no yard, etc. Upgrades add some value but maybe not as much value as people think. People will sacrafice upgrades if they can find a home in the same neighborhood that is priced considerably lower (as long as it isn't a dump.) Upgrades can be done in time and sometimes the thinking is that if they pay for it themselves, they aren't financing the upgrades over a period of thirty years with interest (in the home loan.)

Also remember that over a period of six months, the market has probably changed a bit and the price of the home should be adjusted accordingly if you want interested buyers to bite.

Of course, these are just my observations over the past few months with house buying...and in my own personal market. I'm beginning to feel like I've heard it all on this rollercoaster ride.

 

[AGBF]

Somehow the offer of $10.00 makes it seem rude, whereas asking that it be included does not. I always had a problem haggling, but my husband, an MBA, once explained to me that when you are buying something your object in the negotiation is to get the seller to pay you. If one looks at the transaction from that point of view, one can understand the buyer's stand.

Deb/AGBF

 

[Haven]

Somehow the offer of $10.00 makes it seem rude, whereas asking that it be included does not. I always had a problem haggling, but my husband, an MBA, once explained to me that when you are buying something your object in the negotiation is to get the seller to pay you. If one looks at the transaction from that point of view, one can understand the buyer's stand.

Deb/AGBF

I agree that it's the $10 that makes the whole thing sound so bizarre.

When we were negotiating for our house we came to a point where our offer was $2,000 less than the bare minimum that the sellers were willing to accept. On our visits to the house I spied a gorgeous Crate & Barrel Big Sur table in the dining room, along with the matching bench and chairs, and so we decided to make a final offer of the price they wanted IF they left the table, bench, and chairs. (The furniture would have cost us over $4,000 to buy.) To our delight, they accepted, and we bought the house.

We later learned that the owner worked as a designer for Crate & Barrel. No matter, they got the price they wanted, and we got the house and a table that I never would have bought for myself.

 

[April20]

I was actually wrong on how much under list the offer was- it was $15K under. This after the price was dropped $10K two weeks ago. The good thing is that they don't NEED to sell. They WANT to sell. I haven't talked to DH yet today to see if there's been a response- I'm very curious.

I've had people ask for light fixtures and curtains. Those things I completely get. I also get asking for a piece of furniture - especially if it's built into a room, but I've always seen people offer realistic money for it. My inlaws actually said if they'd gotten a full price offer on their original list price, they'd give every darn stick of furniture in the house with it!!

I kept thinking about that Property Virigins show on HGTV were the host is always coaching people not to give sellers an offer that would offend them. My inlaws weren't necessarily offended, just sort of irritated that the offer was so extreme in some of the asks. I just don't know what the buyer's realtor was thinking. Did she think this was a good offer or could she just not talk them out of it?

Who knows, I just hope the place sells for a fair price.

I should add that there are several other comparable units floor plan wise for sell in their development- all are listed around what theirs is and not nearly as nice.....

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I's interesting you bring up Property Virgins, April, because I watch that show often and have noticed the same thing. I also notice that the offers on that show are never really too much lower than the asking price (usually they are wihin 5%).

In my opinion, the comps don't lie. You mentioned other condos that are listed for the same price--are those the listings or the comps?

When we put in our offers I always looked at comps in a variety of ways--% sold under original list price, % sold under final listed price, % sold under assessed price, etc. so even though the comps don't lie, they can always be manipulated...

Keep us updated, I'm interested in how this pans out and am keeping my fingers crossed for your parents.