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Not wanting kids

Date: 6/8/2010 1:49:28 PM
Author: kenny
More...
I''m too selfish to have kids, and I know it.

Unfortunately I still have a problem; my SO of ten years wants kids.
When we met I told him I don''t and if he is adamant then perhaps we should both move on.
He stayed, but I can tell it breaks his heart to not have kids.
He gushes over his nieces and nephews.
I can see in ways our two dogs get treated like substitute kids.
Its sad and there''s nothing I can do about it but I don''t think any relationship is without its conflicts.

His parents recently stayed with us and his mom said I''d be a great parent.
I flat out told her I''m too selfish.
I said, that to be a good parent you have to change from it being all about you to it being all about the kids.
You should change into a life-support system for another little person.
In a sense you die and are being replaced by a new person.
Obviously this is natural and good; without it our species would become extinct.

Plus I think it is unfair to the kids to have two moms or two dads.
Society is not ready.
Kids are cruel to other kids who are in any way different.
I think it will be a few hundred years before this goes away.

I''m not a kid hater; I was a kid.
I have the deepest respect for parents.
I think they have the hardest and the most important job on earth.
In a way they are better people than I.
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Kenny, I''m sorry you and your SO are at odds over this. Your points are very valid (not that you even need a reason not to want to have kids).

The issue with your case is that you were very up-front from the beginning and he decided to stay. By making that decision, he knows that he gave up the option to have kids. Is the issue now inserting itself back into the picture?

Obviously this is the biggest dealbreaker in most relationships. If my spouse decided he did not want children, I would leave. On the other hand, one of my good friends does not want kids and if her spouse suddenly decided he did want kids, she would leave. There are many relationships where they thought they didn''t want kids, but then did (very few go the other way), but for the most part it''s very difficult to "give up" wanting children.

I hope you and your SO can work it out, Kenny, my heart really does go out to you, especially since you were so up front and thought he''d made his decision by staying.
 
I went from not wanting them when I was single, to wanting them badly after I married DH, to not wanting them, to wanting them again. Whew!

I think it's absolutely fine and valid to be childfree by choice. I don't get why other parents seem so threatened when another couple tells them they aren't planning on having kids. Weird. I'd say more power to you!
 
Date: 6/8/2010 1:49:28 PM
Author: kenny
More...
I''m too selfish to have kids, and I know it.

Unfortunately I still have a problem; my SO of ten years wants kids.
When we met I told him I don''t and if he is adamant then perhaps we should both move on.
He stayed, but I can tell it breaks his heart to not have kids.
He gushes over his nieces and nephews.
I can see in ways our two dogs get treated like substitute kids.
Its sad and there''s nothing I can do about it but I don''t think any relationship is without its conflicts.

His parents recently stayed with us and his mom said I''d be a great parent.
I flat out told her I''m too selfish.
I said, that to be a good parent you have to change from it being all about you to it being all about the kids.
You should change into a life-support system for another little person.
In a sense you die and are being replaced by a new person.
Obviously this is natural and good; without it our species would become extinct.

Plus I think it is unfair to the kids to have two moms or two dads.
Society is not ready.
Kids are cruel to other kids who are in any way different.
I think it will be a few hundred years before this goes away.

I''m not a kid hater; I was a kid.
I have the deepest respect for parents.
I think they have the hardest and the most important job on earth.
In a way they are better people than I.
Click to expand...
I don''t know Kenny, I view kids with two moms or two dads as being very very lucky. They must have been really really wanted, and really really loved to have been brought into the family because it wasn''t just an "oops".

Your situation is tough because your partner really wants to be parent. Are you firm in your convictions? Is it absolutely "No kids!" or you feel kind of indifferent, and just lack the desire to go through a laborious process?
 
Date: 6/8/2010 1:49:28 PM
Author: kenny
More...
I''m too selfish to have kids, and I know it.

Unfortunately I still have a problem; my SO of ten years wants kids.
When we met I told him I don''t and if he is adamant then perhaps we should both move on.
He stayed, but I can tell it breaks his heart to not have kids.
He gushes over his nieces and nephews.
I can see in ways our two dogs get treated like substitute kids.
Its sad and there''s nothing I can do about it but I don''t think any relationship is without its conflicts.

His parents recently stayed with us and his mom said I''d be a great parent.
I flat out told her I''m too selfish.
I said, that to be a good parent you have to change from it being all about you to it being all about the kids.
You should change into a life-support system for another little person.
In a sense you die and are being replaced by a new person.
Obviously this is natural and good; without it our species would become extinct.

Plus I think it is unfair to the kids to have two moms or two dads.
Society is not ready.
Kids are cruel to other kids who are in any way different.
I think it will be a few hundred years before this goes away.

I''m not a kid hater; I was a kid.
I have the deepest respect for parents.
I think they have the hardest and the most important job on earth.
In a way they are better people than I.
Click to expand...
Wow, I am kind of shocked that you would say that. I am gay woman and my partner and I have decided not to have kids only because we really like our lives together and we do not want the responsibility of children.

However, we may change our minds one day and adopt. I can tell you right now that we would make fantastic parents and any child would be lucky to be adopted by us. I don''t think it''s unfair at all. What I think is unfair is when a kid spends their childhood being bounced around in the foster care system.

I think society is ready. I live in a major city, and I see gay men and women with children all the time. If kids are cruel to people that are different, it''s because they are taught that by their parents.
 
Date: 6/8/2010 2:19:02 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
By making that decision, he knows that he gave up the option to have kids. Is the issue now inserting itself back into the picture?
Click to expand...

Yes and no.
It is just always there, simmering below the surface.
Once in a while he'll be reminded of it and gets sad.

I know this is not healthy.
I also know that no relationship is perfect and if that is your standard you will be alone.
 
Date: 6/8/2010 2:28:58 PM
Author: jaysonsmom

I don't know Kenny, I view kids with two moms or two dads as being very very lucky. They must have been really really wanted, and really really loved to have been brought into the family because it wasn't just an 'oops'.


Your situation is tough because your partner really wants to be parent. Are you firm in your convictions? Is it absolutely 'No kids!' or you feel kind of indifferent, and just lack the desire to go through a laborious process?
Click to expand...

Yes, 2-mom/2-dad couples had to really want the kids so that probably self-selects for good parents.
Still, unless they go to school in San Francisco the kids will likely be abused by other kids.
So this is nice for the adults but not fair to the kids.

I'm firm; no kids.
Another reason is I had abusive parents and I want to stop the cycle, much as some people with terrible hereditary diseases opt out of parenting.
 
I''m always seriously amazed at what people will say to other people. I didn''t want kids until I had them, and no one ever said to me some of the stuff I''m reading here.

As a mother, I would never think anything of it if someone told me they didn''t want kids. Why would I care? I mean, I love having mine, but no guarantee anyone else will love theirs.

And as much as I love being a mom, I can honestly say I''d love not being a mom too. There''s still lots of things I''d love to do, but they have to be either sacrificed or postponed. Seriously, I could make a LONG list if things I''d do right now if I weren''t a mom. And I could make an even LONGER list of things I don''t care to ever be involved in as a mom. PTA meetings. Girl Scout meetings. Going to soccer games. Preschool graduation (seriously - who the f*ck graduates PRESCHOOL? I''m so not a nice mom.) Fundraisers selling gift wrap or candy.

But maybe I''m not the typical mom. All of Amelia''s preschool "art" has gone straight into the trash with the exception of the first day of school.
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And yet, I do love being a mom. It''s strange, and hard to put in concrete terms as to why I enjoy it so much when I generally am not into the chores of motherhood.
 
Date: 6/8/2010 2:56:23 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I''m always seriously amazed at what people will say to other people. I didn''t want kids until I had them, and no one ever said to me some of the stuff I''m reading here.

As a mother, I would never think anything of it if someone told me they didn''t want kids. Why would I care? I mean, I love having mine, but no guarantee anyone else will love theirs.

And as much as I love being a mom, I can honestly say I''d love not being a mom too. There''s still lots of things I''d love to do, but they have to be either sacrificed or postponed. Seriously, I could make a LONG list if things I''d do right now if I weren''t a mom. And I could make an even LONGER list of things I don''t care to ever be involved in as a mom. PTA meetings. Girl Scout meetings. Going to soccer games. Preschool graduation (seriously - who the f*ck graduates PRESCHOOL? I''m so not a nice mom.) Fundraisers selling gift wrap or candy.

But maybe I''m not the typical mom. All of Amelia''s preschool ''art'' has gone straight into the trash with the exception of the first day of school.
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And yet, I do love being a mom. It''s strange, and hard to put in concrete terms as to why I enjoy it so much when I generally am not into the chores of motherhood.
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TGal, I definitely read the bolded part as "PITA meetings" and I thought, "Nooo...everybody has to deal with those!" Then I re-read and it made a lot more sense.
 
Date: 6/8/2010 2:44:57 PM
Author: damons
Date: 6/8/2010 1:49:28 PM
Author: kenny
Plus I think it is unfair to the kids to have two moms or two dads.
Society is not ready.
Kids are cruel to other kids who are in any way different.
I think it will be a few hundred years before this goes away.
Click to expand...

Wow, I am kind of shocked that you would say that. I am gay woman and my partner and I have decided not to have kids only because we really like our lives together and we do not want the responsibility of children.


However, we may change our minds one day and adopt. I can tell you right now that we would make fantastic parents and any child would be lucky to be adopted by us. I don't think it's unfair at all. What I think is unfair is when a kid spends their childhood being bounced around in the foster care system.


I think society is ready. I live in a major city, and I see gay men and women with children all the time. If kids are cruel to people that are different, it's because they are taught that by their parents.
Click to expand...

Things are not how they should be.
Things are how they are.

I try to live my life based on the later, not the former.
It is a subtle yet profound perspective shift.
(The older I get the more I see the word, should, as a dirty word that tricks us into living unhappy lives.)

I'm not a trailblazer who is willing to put my kids on the front lines of this battle, but I'm glad someone else is.
I guess that makes me a hypocrite, except that a parent should protect their kids not expose them to hostility, even if it unjust hostility.
 
I don't think it's taboo.

I get both sides of it. I did not dream of being a parent and was quite indifferent to the idea for most of my life. Now I have a 10 month old son.

It is the hardest thing I have ever done. It dramatically changes your life. It affects your identity, your time, your commitments and your relationships. You can't quit or walk away or stop being a parent. You are responsible for someone else's life and that is an overwhelming thought at times. There are no guarantees that your child will grow up to be happy or successful or will even like you.

It is also the most amazing experience I have ever had. I can't believe that I have this much love for something else, it feels so big that my body/heart can't contain it. You can't explain it or describe it really until it happens to you. And then you think OH. THIS is what everyone is always taking about.

So I get people wanting to tell you that you should feel this kind of love. It's awesome and part of me wants everyone to feel it.

But I don't think it's for everyone. I don't think that everyone that has children feels this way. It's hard to imagine birthing a child and NOT feeling this way but I do know people who should have never had children. So though people are good-intentioned by wanting you to have this awesome experience, it's not true that everyone needs to experience it.

If you don't want kids, be at peace with your decision. The worst thing is to have them if you don't want them.

Kenny- I think you are having a totally different kind of issue. I don't see any sort of good compromise there. I don't think you should have kids if you don't want them, even if it's because of your love for your partner. But it's hard when your desire makes someone you love unhappy.
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But nobody has everything. And we all make choices. And if you were perfectly open and honest about your feelings, then he made a choice. And he makes a choice every day to stay. And maybe he has wistful moments, but maybe his life with you adds up to more and makes those wistful moments bearable.

ETA: Edited above- I didn't mean that I get people telling you that you should change your mind. I mean that I get people wanting other people to experience it. I have never understood why people try and tell you what to feel or how to live your life. I don't remember people ever telling me I should have kids, and if they did, I just shrugged and blew them off. It never bothered me, I just figured they didn't know me very well.
 
Date: 6/8/2010 2:50:02 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 6/8/2010 2:19:02 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
By making that decision, he knows that he gave up the option to have kids. Is the issue now inserting itself back into the picture?
Click to expand...

Yes and no.
It is just always there, simmering below the surface.
Once in a while he''ll be reminded of it and gets sad.

I know this is not healthy.
I also know that no relationship is perfect and if that is your standard you will be alone.
Click to expand...
I''m sorry, Kenny
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All I can say is that the fact that you guys have made efforts to work through this because the relationship means so much to you is a testament to how much you love each other. I know you''ll find a way to work it out. I''m sure he does get sad sometimes about what he feels is a sacrifice, but he''s obviously working through it and knows he doesn''t want to give up your relationship. You must be a pretty swell guy :)
 
Date: 6/8/2010 2:44:57 PM
Author: damons


I think society is ready. I live in a major city, and I see gay men and women with children all the time. If kids are cruel to people that are different, it's because they are taught that by their parents.
Click to expand...
Sorry to Hijack....

Kenny: I concur that society is ready. I live deep behind the "Orange conservative curtain" in a small city, and I see same sex parents at my kids' schools all the time....and Kenny I believe you're in the same general area of California. I think California as a whole is culturally diverse, and kids are taught at a very young age to be respectful of everyone's differences. I don't think taunting at school is an aspect that you have to fear.

Childhood abuse could lead to continous cycle of abuse, or it could lead to a complete reversal of parenting style, and you becoming the most conscientious, and wonderful parent. I think it says a lot when your partner's mom told you that you'd make a great parent, because you obviously have some qualities that show that, and you're not aware of them yourself!

I feel for your SO because I have a cousin in his shoes......and I know it's really hard. Hope you two can work things out!
 
Thanks guys for all the understanding and kind feedback.
 
Hmmm...my brother and his male fiance do not live in San Francisco, intend to have children by adoption or surrogacy, would be *awesome* parents and even go to PTA meetings (I will be more like TGal - that is more my style though I am sure DH will find himself head of the PTA, ha!) and know many other gay couples who have done the same. I do not see it is as unfair at all to have loving parent(s), whatever their gender or family "makeup". My brothers fiance is actual a member of the Canadian military and his orientation and my brother are well accepted by his peers. Times are a changed!

It does not matter whether a kid comes from a traditional family - at some point they will likely get teased for something absurd! My parents were divorced....but I was constantly teased as a young child for having red hair! It is part of growing up, unfortunately.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with not wanting kids for whatever reason that fits you. But I hope you and your partner can both agree to that choice going forward. Anyone else - well it is none of their business!
 
Date: 6/8/2010 3:26:53 PM
Author: RaiKai
It does not matter whether a kid comes from a traditional family - at some point they will likely get teased for something absurd! My parents were divorced....but I was constantly teased as a young child for having red hair! It is part of growing up, unfortunately.
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Ditto. I was teased for being smart - a lot. I went to the "bad elementary school", where a lot of the problem kids went, and anybody who was smart and not a trouble maker got made fun of immensely. Then I went to junior high and realized there were a ton more kids like me, and we didn't really get made fun of anymore. Well, except once in a while. And I also got teased for my red hair
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I guess what I'm saying is that kids get made fun of for all sorts of things and some kids are more likely to get made fun of than others. I hope my future kids can be smart and well behaved and if that means they get made fun of, so be it. Hopefully it'll make them stronger (I'm still working on having a thicker skin, so not sure how much it helped me
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)

Though I do totally respect your desire to not have kids. The whole "selfish" thing completely describes how I feel right now. I'm pretty maternal when it comes to pets - I love to have animals and I go to all sorts of lengths to keep them happy and healthy. But I like that I can leave my bunnies at home and go out for an evening. I like that they can sleep all day and entertain each other. I think I would be a good mom, and DH would be a great dad, but I'm not willing to give up that freedom that we have. So, for now, I'll just look forward to the day I can get a dog
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I do think that some day, when we're older and have a house and everything, that we may be ready for the "next big thing", but right now, there are so many "next big things" coming up that I'm excited for and having kids isn't really on my radar.
 
I''m cool with people not wanting kids... I mean... kids should BE wanted if they are born.. so.. it''s ok!!

I am just sad when people want kids and can''t have them.
 
I do not think people need to explain or defend why they don''t have kids. Just how I see the question "why don''t you donate blood?" really intrusive. Could be personal, could be medical, could be preferential.

It''s really not anybody''s business.

I agree with the other poster though, I personally wouldn''t let fear of having a teased child deter me. Every child on the planet has been teased about something, and you can''t predict what. I have a friend who has a gay partner and has adopted two children from China. The oldest has gotten teased. About having two moms? About being Chinese? No, for being "too short".
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Date: 6/8/2010 3:56:37 PM
Author: part gypsy
No, for being ''too short''.
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Click to expand...


That is kids for you!!! You have braces? Ha! You are too tall, too short, too fat, too black, too white, too skinny... ha! lol

I got made fun of in 5th grade for being taller than all of the guys. I was 5''3''''.

I am now 5''4'''' and get made fun of for being too short.

I don''t think teasing ever really goes away-- usually it''s pretty harmless.
 
I forgot to say earlier in my last post that I always knew I was meant to be with kids in some way. I''ve always babysat/nannied, etc., and I loved it. I know I have a strong connection with kids, and I feel drawn toward them (honest, that was not meant to sound creepy!). That''s the reason I went into teaching -- I knew I''d be great working with children. If I was to be 100% honest though, I do feel a tad insecure with the thought of raising a child. I look to everyone else before making decisions in my own personal/professional life. If I feel that way, how on earth would I do raising a child? Babies, toddlers, elementary aged kids -- sure. Middle, high school, college, and beyond? Not sure how I''d do.

I will admit that I will be sad if we don''t end up having children. I''m just not sure I have the self-confidence or energy for it. I''ve never actually said that "out loud" before.
 
Zoe, I often doubt if I have the energy for kids too. I get tired after running errands for a couple hours - I don''t know how I''d be on the go with kids all day. And after a day at work, I want to sit and do nothing, not play with kids and help them do homework. These are all things I would do because I would do the right thing for my kid, but I''m afraid I would be exhausted all the time.
 
El -- yeah. I run around all day after my class of first and second graders. I''m happy to send them home to their parents at the end of the day and do my own (relaxing) thing at home. Maybe it''s part selfishness too, I''m not sure.
 
Re: energy...

I can answer this definitively...there are plenty of days when I don''t have the energy. There are days where I am throwing her every diversion possible ("Here Amelia, legos! Crayons and paper! Blocks!") in the hopes that she''ll entertain herself for a bit and I can be a vegetable laying next to her. Somedays it takes all my willpower NOT to throw her in front of the TV for long stretches of time. I haven''t lost that battle yet, but boy oh boy, have I been tempted.

My cousin told me the other day that a mutual acquaintance told her that she LOVES raising her two girls and can''t imagine having a nanny. I say kudos to her. I''m not like that. I have to plan my day in chunks of entertainment for the kid in order to survive it. Playground, playdates, a field trip somewhere. Something. Anything!

If that makes me a bad mother, so be it. I try to do fun things and give her my 100% attention when I can. I try to be interactive. But I''d be lying if I said that some days, I just don''t got it in me.

Oh, and I hate all her books. I''m so sick of reading them. The only thing that makes it amusing from time to time is when she says something new and fun.

People say childrearing is a wild roller coaster ride. I suppose when you look over the child''s long life and from a 50,000 foot view, it probably is. But from where I sit, it''s often just a flatline with some blips. And somehow, the blips keep you breathing and moving on.
 
I've seen so many same sex couples be great parents. They were wanted so much, and thus so loved...

Kenny, any chance your SO would want to be a Big Brother?? Not saying that replaces being a parent, but being a positive figure or mentor to a young kid is sooooo needed... It would allow him to really help, and in turn, use that love that he has to give.
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Just a thought.
 
Thanks Kal, I suggested becoming a big brother or volunteering to work with children in some way long ago.
He said that would make it worse and just be a tease.

I did a little googling about big brothers being gay and and found this.
 
Date: 6/8/2010 4:39:34 PM
Author: kenny
Thanks Kal, I suggested becoming a big brother or volunteering to work with children in some way long ago.
He said that would make it worse and just be a tease.

I did a little googling about big brothers being gay and and found this.
Click to expand...
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I worked for BBBS for a while and it wouldn't shock me. They even have a program that is mostly religious <- which there is nothing wrong with it, but some of the BBBS things really rubbed me the wrong way.

If you're not A, then you can't have B, or C.. or D...
 
Childlessness is growing trend. I always thought I would be childless, but seeing how badly my DH wants children has shifted my opinion. So, we''ll see. When I am teaching Social Problems, I always have my students read this article which usually leads to great conversation. It basically highlights research finding that most of our cultural assumptions about mental health and parenting are false; parenting actually negatively impacts mental health.

--
Also, Kenny, most research shows that gay parents actually have better adjusted children primarily because they are often so concerned they overcompensate by going further than the average breeder-parent would to provide a nurturing childhood. I''m not trying to talk you in to wanting to parent or anything, just thought it might be useful to point out. Also, even in my progressive city in an otherwise incredibly conservative state our city school system takes a multi-definition approach to family and makes sure that schools do not institutionalize man-woman-child definitions of family. They also teach same- and different-sex sex education in Health class. Sure, it doesn''t mean discrimination of gays and lesbians have ended, but it does make my gay, lesbian, and ally friends more comfortable enrolling their children in public schools.
 
I have never had the urge to create an HRU. I''ve been asked why and I tell them flat out why and I tell the truth. I like kids quite a lot, as long as they belong to someone else and go home at the end of the day.

I''ve hosted birthday parties at my home for kiddies, no problem! we do the whole holloween thing because we live in a very child friendly area. no problem there either. Its all very cute TBH! but to have my own? uh
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...no thanks.

It takes too much time and hard work to be a great parent. I''m just not the one.

I come from a large family. I''m the youngest of 5, I have 17 Nieces and Nephews, and 7 great-nephews. ...

so its not about me being an only child or anything. And lucky for me, my parents never harrassed me to have kids, they knew the deal even when I was a young child. I no longer have the ability to have children, I lost that in my 20''s. The only thing I mourned about that was the fact that I would go into early menopause.

When a person decides they''re not parent material, thats not about being selfish, and if its wrong, I don''t wanna be right!

But I''ve heard the gambit about me being selfish by not having one or at least adopting, and about how I''ll regret it because I''ll have no one to take care of us when we''re old (like having kids guarantees that???)

I tell them folks to shut it , get the hell out of my womb and keep it moving.

Kenny, I think that you were at least fair with your partner and told him from the jump, thats pretty much all you can do. My husband knew how I felt about children and he was totally on board. Some do not change their minds in regards to children, and some do. Maybe he figured you would change yours one day.


For me, no regrets. I like my lifestyle as is.


-A
 
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