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No knee surgery - ACL gap filling with scar tissue?

Dee*Jay

Dee*Jay

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
15,437
I just saw the ortheopedic surgeon this morning to get clearance for surgery next week and he said I seem to be one of a tiny percentage of people where the gap in the torn ACL completely fills with scar tissue to the point that the knee is as stable as it would be if the ACL were replaced. I asked if I would be as strong after complete recovery (i.e., once the gap is completely filled) as if I had the ACL replaced, and the doc said yes. He did caveat it to say there is *always* the possibility of structural failure, but that is no greater a possibility than the replacement ACL failing anyway.

Oh great knee gurus: Does this sound right???

I mean, I''ll all for avoiding being sliced and diced like a Thanksgiving turkey, but it seems too good to be true...
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Twice this year I''ve been slotted for surgery when a second opinion yealded different results. I''d go see a second surgeon, just in case!
 
Gecko, I think that''s a great idea!
 
Sometimes the human body is a remarkable machine - this sounds like a good outcome to me!!
 
Date: 5/21/2010 6:25:22 PM
Author: MissGotRocks
Sometimes the human body is a remarkable machine - this sounds like a good outcome to me!!
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This! How awesome for you - but I agree with gecko, I would still get a second opinion just in case.
 
I would have a second opinion, just to be sure. My ACL tore on my right knee and had to be repaired....it wasn''t very much fun, but was necessary.

Lori
 
Dee jay,

I firmly believe that YOU know the truth. You can seek five different opinions and unfortunately that may be exactly what you get. Then you are left even more confused.

Center yourself. What do YOU feel? What do YOU think? If you feel like you are nearly as strong as you were, act like it. You''ll KNOW soon enough if you aren''t healed to the degree you need to be. Trust your gut. NObody knows your body better than you do.

It would be amazing if you are one of those people who heal naturally without surgical intervention. It does happen and it is a blessing. I can''t tell you how many people tell me everyday "If I had to do it over again, I would have never had the surgery!!" There are those who would say that they are "So glad I had the surgery!" I was the latter, but not until I KNEW in my gut that I had more to lose by not undergoing surgery, than I did without it. I was at a constant pain level that was not sustainable.

Pain and instability is the thing you need to worry about the most. I would let the pain determine my fate. You can''t really measure instability until it''s a little too late and then you find yourself in enough pain that the surgical issue is a gimme. Yanno?
 
If indeed that is true then it''s wonderful news! I would however, seek a second opinion. Also I do agree with mr, only your knee can tell you for sure!
 
MissGotRocks - That is the truth! I was talking to a guy in the gym today whose father had broken several ribs and he decided to wait on the surgery. When he went back and got x-rayed again his body had bridged the gap and the doctor was AMAZED at what had happened!

MonkeyPie, I have set up a second opinion, but the earliest I could get was June 7. So, in the meantime I am going full steam ahead under the assumption I am NOT having surgery. There is no downside because even if I do have it I will still be stronger this way.

Lori, I feel your pain (literally!). How long between your injury and the surgery?

Miracles, as always, the Voice of Reason! Honestly, I don''t feel the instability that I associate with an ACL injury, but that being said, I''m new at this!
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My two big fears are that my knee won''t be as good as it was before (not to mention the chance of secondary injury to other parts of my knee) and also that even if my knee is indeed as good as it was before I will still be afraid to push it becuase I don''t have confidence in it. I will be VERY interested to see what this second opinion yields...

Michelle, my knee is currently telling me that we need to plan an outing to the next gem show!
11.gif
And you did say to listen to my knee!
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Date: 5/22/2010 9:20:04 AM
Author: Catmom
If indeed that is true then it''s wonderful news! I would however, seek a second opinion. Also I do agree with mr, only your knee can tell you for sure!
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Agreed!

Whatever the outcome, I wish you a full and speedy recovery. That being said, I''m all for avoiding surgery, so if you don''t need it, that''s WONDERFUL!
 
Woo hoo to good news. Definitely see another doctor for a second opinion, but I firmly believe if something works don''t fix it. Good luck.
 
anytime a surgeon says surgery is not necessary--you can take that to the bank, because they generally love to slice and dice. i would say you''re pretty lucky!
 
Date: 5/22/2010 1:15:04 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
MissGotRocks - That is the truth! I was talking to a guy in the gym today whose father had broken several ribs and he decided to wait on the surgery. When he went back and got x-rayed again his body had bridged the gap and the doctor was AMAZED at what had happened!

MonkeyPie, I have set up a second opinion, but the earliest I could get was June 7. So, in the meantime I am going full steam ahead under the assumption I am NOT having surgery. There is no downside because even if I do have it I will still be stronger this way.

Lori, I feel your pain (literally!). How long between your injury and the surgery?

Miracles, as always, the Voice of Reason! Honestly, I don''t feel the instability that I associate with an ACL injury, but that being said, I''m new at this!
3.gif
My two big fears are that my knee won''t be as good as it was before (not to mention the chance of secondary injury to other parts of my knee) and also that even if my knee is indeed as good as it was before I will still be afraid to push it becuase I don''t have confidence in it. I will be VERY interested to see what this second opinion yields...

Michelle, my knee is currently telling me that we need to plan an outing to the next gem show!
11.gif
And you did say to listen to my knee!
12.gif
Click to expand...
Hee hee hee, indeed. I''m in!!!
 
Date: 5/22/2010 1:15:04 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
MissGotRocks - That is the truth! I was talking to a guy in the gym today whose father had broken several ribs and he decided to wait on the surgery. When he went back and got x-rayed again his body had bridged the gap and the doctor was AMAZED at what had happened!

MonkeyPie, I have set up a second opinion, but the earliest I could get was June 7. So, in the meantime I am going full steam ahead under the assumption I am NOT having surgery. There is no downside because even if I do have it I will still be stronger this way.

Lori, I feel your pain (literally!). How long between your injury and the surgery?

Miracles, as always, the Voice of Reason! Honestly, I don''t feel the instability that I associate with an ACL injury, but that being said, I''m new at this!
3.gif
My two big fears are that my knee won''t be as good as it was before (not to mention the chance of secondary injury to other parts of my knee) and also that even if my knee is indeed as good as it was before I will still be afraid to push it becuase I don''t have confidence in it. I will be VERY interested to see what this second opinion yields...

Michelle, my knee is currently telling me that we need to plan an outing to the next gem show!
11.gif
And you did say to listen to my knee!
12.gif
Click to expand...
Dee*Jay,

My ACL tore in two while I was shopping in a mall. I nearly went down in the middle of the floor, but managed to get myself over to the side wall and just held on until the pain subsided a bit. Long story short, I saw my trusty ortho surgeon a few days later and had an MRI. It showed the problem and I had to wait 3 weeks before surgery. This is so the ends of the torn ligament can shrink down. It makes the replacement easier. They used part of my hamstring as the replacement and I''m good as new.

Lori
 
You are lucky. As a nursing supervisor for an orthopedic hospital I say keep an eye on your knee and how you feel. Surgery always has risks and scar tissue, so if you can avoid it then that is a great thing. I tore my meniscus and due to the low blood flow that the cartilage receives I was told I needed surgery for it to heal. I waited it out and it took over a year to heal but it did heal. So the human body is remarkable in that aspect. Count your blessings.
 
This actually happened to me too DeeJay. I tore my ACL when I was about 14 (skiing), but with physical therapy a surgeon decided that my scar tissue had filled in and I had strengthened the muscles enough around it that I didn't need surgery. Since you know me you know that I am quite a few years past that at this point
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and I have had zero troubles with the exception of occasional arthritis-y aches when it's really humid sometimes. Just one of those weird things I guess. I played tennis and soccer all through high school with no problems-although I did have some expensive brace to use in the years just after the accident.

Anyway, I would get a 2nd opinion but it isn't completely unheard of for it to heal itself in this way.
 
Haven, I''m all for avoiding it too if possible!

Marcy, have a second opinion set up with the team doctor for the Bears. My current doc works with the Sox. By the time I''m done I will have touched every team in Chicago!

Tina, that''s a very good point!

Lori, I never really did understand why there was a waiting period between when the injury occurred and the surgery, so that''s interesting.

Lisa, I''m glad your knee healed itself too! And a torn meniscus--YOWCH!

Neat, OK, ton''s of questions! So you feel that your knee is as good now as it would have been with the surgery? Fear is that I will always wonder about that... Did the brace help? Was it awkward/uncomfortable? A physical therapist that I talked to (not mine, mine is out of town until tomorrow) siad he doesn''t like braces because they give people a false sense of confidence and then they end up hurting themselves again. What about secondary injury? I''ve read that if you don''t get your ACL replaced you are at greater risk for other problems (meniscus tears, arthritis, etc.).

BTW, I can find all sorts of evidence for this sort of scar tissue ACL "repair"... in DOGS!!! So if I was a corgi or a yorki I''d be the happies dog in town right now, LOL!
 
Date: 5/24/2010 12:36:25 PM
Author: Dee*Jay

Neat, OK, ton's of questions! So you feel that your knee is as good now as it would have been with the surgery? Fear is that I will always wonder about that... Did the brace help? Was it awkward/uncomfortable? A physical therapist that I talked to (not mine, mine is out of town until tomorrow) siad he doesn't like braces because they give people a false sense of confidence and then they end up hurting themselves again. What about secondary injury? I've read that if you don't get your ACL replaced you are at greater risk for other problems (meniscus tears, arthritis, etc.).


BTW, I can find all sorts of evidence for this sort of scar tissue ACL 'repair'... in DOGS!!! So if I was a corgi or a yorki I'd be the happies dog in town right now, LOL!
Click to expand...

Well the reality is that I don't know what the counterfactual is. I have no idea if what I have now is better than with the surgery, because of course I never had the surgery! I can say that I feel like my knee is fine at this point. I did use the brace when I was younger in sports with side to side movements (skiing, soccer, tennis, etc.) but I can also see how some people might take it overboard. I haven't used it in years though and I have been skiing and have played other sports since.

I've had no secondary injuries or other issues at all. I mean you can always go get the surgery later if you decide to right?
 
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