newbie purchasing a diamond :)

[s2k]

hello,

im looking to buy a diamond here in Toronto...

im looking for a 1 carat diamond with as much brilliance and fire as i can afford... (3500k-5k)

my question is.. will my untrained eye be able to tell the difference between a very good cut and an ideal or VG symmetry and polish vs EX

i was referred to a place in Toronto called AAA diamonds on dundas square.. has anyone heard of them? they quoted me prices super cheap for my specs compared to bluenile.ca..... what things should i look out for?


they quoted 4-4500 for an ideal G color SI1 1 carat

thanks in advance!

Darren

 

[Ellen]

Hi s2k,

That sounds unbelievably cheap, a 1 ct. G SI1 is going for around 6000-6500 online. One possible reason could be who graded it, possibly EGL.

I''ve never heard of that place.


I would suggest reading this before you delve into diamond buying.

 

[clipper37]

actually, if you do a search on this website you get six pages of results by doing a 'search by price comparison' using a cap of $4500(i only had GIA certs checked)....

Just do a search on this website here and start sending emails to the companies you find, with that budget you should be fine on getting the best cut possible since it is an SI, just go with a company that will verify it is clean in the heart and has a good return policy in case you don't like where the inclusion is.

What cut did they quote you with

I have the same thoughts you do on the diff. between top grades of cut versus a 'very good'(I question the difference to layman like us); although I can say that I read a study (by GIA i think) which found that most diamonds under conditions of 'everyday use'(=kinda dirty) which were cut a bit shallow (thus throwing out too much light) appeared to have more fire/brilliance than those which were of the ideal proportions. So I'd suggest, if you do go with a very good (you'd obviously spend a lot less)to go with one that is cut towards the shallow, not deep, end of the spectrum.
-cheers
ps-i am not a guru, i just did a search using the search engine on this site and found you can get cheaper
_______________________________________

 

[Ellen]

Date: 11/1/2007 10:49:37 AM
Author: clipper37
actually, if you do a search on this website you get six pages of results by doing a ''search by price comparison'' using a cap of $4500(i only had GIA certs checked)....but with anything I''m sure it''s easy to find people charging more, gotta dig for the inverse though.

Just do a search on this website here and start sending emails to the companies you find, with that budget you should be fine on getting the best cut possible since it is an SI, just go with a company that will verify it is clean in the heart and has a good return policy in case you don''t like where the inclusion is.

What cut did they quote you with, I just did a search a minute ago and found one on angara with excellent cut for 3432, i can''t post the link though-my connection is slow today and i keep having to refresh pages

I have the same thoughts you do on the diff. between top grades of cut versus a ''very good''(I question the difference to layman like us); although I can say that I read a study (by GIA i think) which found that most diamonds under conditions of ''everyday use''(=kinda dirty) which were cut a bit shallow (thus throwing out too much light) appeared to have more fire/brilliance than those which were of the ideal proportions. So I''d suggest, if you do go with a very good (you''d obviously spend a lot less)to go with one that is cut towards the shallow, not deep, end of the spectrum.
-cheers
ps-i am not a guru, i just did a search using the search engine on this site and found you can get cheaper
_______________________________________

Actually, you get what you pay for.

To get the "best cut possible", do the search again, for Cut Quality, 5 diamonds come up.

This one is an example of best cut, and I know you didn''t find 6 pages of those.

Having said that, and since I forgot to answer one of the OP''s questions, it has been said by experts one won''t notice the difference between VG and Ex/Ideal Polish and Symmetry..So they can be great value stones if everything else checks out ok.

 

[s2k]

thanks for the responses, after doing my research im only interested in a gia certificate rather than the gemscan i am being offered at this wholesaler. even tho no tax

 

[clipper37]

I feel ya, def do only GIA (if you get to know one grade system why not do it w/the one that is over 70% in the US~dunno about canada, can't be too diff though)

the search by cut on here doesn't really return that many diamonds, missing many diamonds which have excellent cut grades by vendors found in the other search...not to mention, many vendors you can find on 'search by price comparison' don't list the cut grade on their site even(you have to call or email them and then they start getting back to you on the quotes and such)...either way I'm sure it'll be more than five diamonds

also, blue nile lists these specs/ideal etc. for 4900-5300, i pers feel blue nile can be expensive if you are in a rush though...g'luck

added:when i said 'best cut possible' i'm talking ideal cuts, the one above it seems absurd to bother with, same with internally flawless...if money isn't a factor, sure, spend, but if it is those apsects go beyond...you are paying for how you 'feel' about the quality at that point, nothing i could ever possibly see (i've got 20/15 vision, not superman tho)

 

[Ellen]

I say this NOT to be argumentitive, but to alert the poster. All GIA Ex are NOT created equal, and many are downright disasters. If one wants to play it much safer, look for AGS0.

 

[cinnamon013]

Date: 11/1/2007 11:46:50 AM
Author: Ellen
I say this NOT to be argumentitive, but to alert the poster. All GIA Ex are NOT created equal, and many are downright disasters. If one wants to play it much safer, look for AGS0.

I agree, Ellen.

 

[belle]

Date: 11/1/2007 11:46:50 AM
Author: Ellen
I say this NOT to be argumentitive, but to alert the poster. All GIA Ex are NOT created equal, and many are downright disasters. If one wants to play it much safer, look for AGS0.

fortunately, i can''t find my can opener right now.

ellen is right, all gia ex are not created equal. and we can both vouch to the fact that there are some gia ''very goods'' that are at the top of the league. long story and a can opener short, it IS safer to go with ags0.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 11/1/2007 11:56:42 AM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 11:46:50 AM
Author: Ellen
I say this NOT to be argumentitive, but to alert the poster. All GIA Ex are NOT created equal, and many are downright disasters. If one wants to play it much safer, look for AGS0.

fortunately, i can''t find my can opener right now.

ellen is right, all gia ex are not created equal. and we can both vouch to the fact that there are some gia ''very goods'' that are at the top of the league. long story and a can opener short, it IS safer to go with ags0.

speaking of can openers, your sig is gone....

 

[s2k]

i mean if i end up paying 300-500 more than i normally would MAYBE somewhere else for the same diamond it isnt a disaster.... the worry would be if im overpaying by 800 or more.......

 

[clipper37]

interesting you suggest to go with an ags0 while stipulating gia very goods are sometimes at the top of the league~logical conclusion based on this alone, would be to hold out for the very good which does perform well.

while it may be safer to get ags0(irrespective of funds), since the ags has tighter specs for cut grades, it would all come down to seeing how an ideal(or a very good) gia performs next to an ags0(maybe during appraisal).

~esp. considering the vantage point that money is a factor~per the OPs original post.

with some searching you''ll get that stone for the bucks you already have, (maybe even less so you can get a decent setting too)

-consider how many people will hit that one click button for the highest cut search~(it''s killer when they have all those beautiful images ready to view, but, obviously if it takes more effort to contact vendors, the best deal will usually require a little more searching to thin out your consumer competition).

food for thought: why not just do a blind carbon copy email of the specs you want to several vendors (instead of hitting send 8Xs on emails) and see what they come back with

 

[clipper37]

also, you don'' need to worry about any sales tax on the internet purchase...several pricescope listed vendors offer lower prices through pricescope searches than if you were to even go directly to the site, not to mention the 1.5% off that many vendors offer for using a wire transfer...lots of ways to cut some off the top mang

 

[belle]

Date: 11/1/2007 12:02:27 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 11/1/2007 11:56:42 AM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 11:46:50 AM
Author: Ellen
I say this NOT to be argumentitive, but to alert the poster. All GIA Ex are NOT created equal, and many are downright disasters. If one wants to play it much safer, look for AGS0.

fortunately, i can''t find my can opener right now.

ellen is right, all gia ex are not created equal. and we can both vouch to the fact that there are some gia ''very goods'' that are at the top of the league. long story and a can opener short, it IS safer to go with ags0.

speaking of can openers, your sig is gone....

yeah....i miss it but having an animated avatar AND an animated sig seemed like some sensory overload. i might just have to throw in a quote down at the bottom to make up for it. it''s just hard keeping up with that kind of stuff. before you know it, it''s WAAAAY past time to time change.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/1/2007 12:54:08 PM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 12:02:27 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 11/1/2007 11:56:42 AM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 11:46:50 AM
Author: Ellen
I say this NOT to be argumentitive, but to alert the poster. All GIA Ex are NOT created equal, and many are downright disasters. If one wants to play it much safer, look for AGS0.

fortunately, i can''t find my can opener right now.

ellen is right, all gia ex are not created equal. and we can both vouch to the fact that there are some gia ''very goods'' that are at the top of the league. long story and a can opener short, it IS safer to go with ags0.

speaking of can openers, your sig is gone....

yeah....i miss it but having an animated avatar AND an animated sig seemed like some sensory overload. i might just have to throw in a quote down at the bottom to make up for it. it''s just hard keeping up with that kind of stuff. before you know it, it''s WAAAAY past time to time change.

Yeah - otherwise it would be "inconceivable!!!"

 

[belle]

Date: 11/1/2007 12:46:22 PM
Author: clipper37
interesting you suggest to go with an ags0 while stipulating gia very goods are sometimes at the top of the league~logical conclusion based on this alone, would be to hold out for the very good which does perform well.

absolutely. as long as you know what you''re holding out for!

that''s the difference. with ags, you KNOW. that is the point that ellen and i were trying to make.

 

[belle]

Date: 11/1/2007 12:58:05 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/1/2007 12:54:08 PM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 12:02:27 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 11/1/2007 11:56:42 AM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 11:46:50 AM
Author: Ellen
I say this NOT to be argumentitive, but to alert the poster. All GIA Ex are NOT created equal, and many are downright disasters. If one wants to play it much safer, look for AGS0.

fortunately, i can''t find my can opener right now.

ellen is right, all gia ex are not created equal. and we can both vouch to the fact that there are some gia ''very goods'' that are at the top of the league. long story and a can opener short, it IS safer to go with ags0.

speaking of can openers, your sig is gone....

yeah....i miss it but having an animated avatar AND an animated sig seemed like some sensory overload. i might just have to throw in a quote down at the bottom to make up for it. it''s just hard keeping up with that kind of stuff. before you know it, it''s WAAAAY past time to time change.

Yeah - otherwise it would be ''inconceivable!!!''

you keep saying that word....

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/1/2007 12:59:48 PM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 12:58:05 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/1/2007 12:54:08 PM

Yeah - otherwise it would be ''inconceivable!!!''

you keep saying that word....

Hehehe....I have been itching to throw in a Princess Bride quote!!!

 

[belle]

Date: 11/1/2007 1:02:08 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/1/2007 12:59:48 PM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 12:58:05 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/1/2007 12:54:08 PM

Yeah - otherwise it would be ''inconceivable!!!''

you keep saying that word....

Hehehe....I have been itching to throw in a Princess Bride quote!!!

i hope ellen finally watched it. otherwise, we''ll have to throw her in the moat!

hehehe....it would be great if s2k was a princess bride fanatic and we could just hijack the heck out of this thread with sayings and quotes!

(you know...kinda like we''re already doing!

)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/1/2007 1:07:40 PM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 1:02:08 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/1/2007 12:59:48 PM
Author: belle

Hehehe....I have been itching to throw in a Princess Bride quote!!!

i hope ellen finally watched it. otherwise, we''ll have to throw her in the moat!

hehehe....it would be great if s2k was a princess bride fanatic and we could just hijack the heck out of this thread with sayings and quotes!

(you know...kinda like we''re already doing!

)

Hahaha!!! I hope she did too!

 

[clipper37]

point noted, so if you don''t have time to get another if the unlikely event of it being a lemon, than it would def be a risk going w/gia, relative to the ags...yet the link ellen originally posted suggested that if you go with GIA you''ll have almost 30 times the selection (ags comprising only 2.5% of the diamonds on the net in 2004).

Here''s a gia excellent:
http://www.angara.com/shop.do?pID=83406

fyi-i didn''t put this through Hollaway cut advisor er anything, just saw the price and the cut

 

[belle]

Date: 11/1/2007 1:14:05 PM
Author: clipper37
point noted, so if you don''t have time to get another if the unlikely event of it being a lemon, than it would def be a risk going w/gia, relative to the ags...yet the link ellen originally posted suggested that if you go with GIA you''ll have almost 30 times the selection (ags comprising only 2.5% of the diamonds on the net in 2004).

Here''s a gia excellent:
http://www.angara.com/shop.do?pID=83406

fyi-i didn''t put this through Hollaway cut advisor er anything, just saw the price and the cut

aaaaaaaggggghhhhh!

see! there''s the danger!

 

[gontama]

Date: 11/1/2007 1:21:43 PM
Author: belle

Date: 11/1/2007 1:14:05 PM
Author: clipper37
point noted, so if you don't have time to get another if the unlikely event of it being a lemon, than it would def be a risk going w/gia, relative to the ags...yet the link ellen originally posted suggested that if you go with GIA you'll have almost 30 times the selection (ags comprising only 2.5% of the diamonds on the net in 2004).

Here's a gia excellent:
http://www.angara.com/shop.do?pID=83406

fyi-i didn't put this through Hollaway cut advisor er anything, just saw the price and the cut

aaaaaaaggggghhhhh!

see! there's the danger!

Even more dangerrous if the gia report is not double checked. Angara says the cut is excellent but GIA does not agree with her. It says very good. Evevrything else looks the same. Only hope it is an innocent mistake.

P.S. The "excellent" cut grade may be Angara's opinion/judgement. Still it is at least very misleading.

 

[clipper37]

actually, there is no danger in looking at a diamond for reference on prices(what, no love for very good cuts now? that didn''t last long)

much to the contrary, if you are actually shopping you''d do the research to double check specs(thanks Gontama for hitting up gia report check) and check the gia (additionally putting it through the Holloway as I cited, it should be easy to get all information....little harder with some other vendors, but this info is accessible).

Now that I have thrown an example out it has been established that a diamond, for less, is definitely tangible, within the specs we have all set in this thread.

So no need to be scared, Halloween is over.

I doubt it is intensional deceit, i just checked two other stones on angara and the certs matched the website specs for the items(abazias does do that bogus grading of cut their own way=often diff than the cert)...s2K should be able to drop somethin hot for the budget, even better prolly since this very good was a decent amount under that dude''s price quote which didn''t even have a gia(let alone the highly treasured ags)...an ideal gia which does well on Holloway shouldn''t be hard to find for a solid price below the top of your budget s2k

g''luck
_____________________________________

 

[s2k]

wow lots of help! thanks again!

i called usacertdiamonds.com... they are literally 4 minutes away from my house... so he said he will bring some stones in for me.... all certified by GIA and should hit my 4000 price range.

 

[clipper37]

SWEET~see,you're on the money now!

update...i did some more cert checks on them just for the hell of it, and some others were coming up in err, either way, you CAN get the info w/out even having to call or email w/a bunch of the online vendors (great prices too)

ps-don't get stuck on the first vendor though, shop around, if you find a cheaper price for a diamond with similar specs they can often match/beat that price

 

[s2k]

didnt understand your post fully, did you say that you did cert checks on usacert? and they were expensive?

 

[clipper37]

nah, i had checked the certs at angara...i don''t think you can check usa cert w/out getting the gia cert# from them(i don''t think they post it outright unfortunately)..but just ask for the number and tell them you''ll check it here:

http://www.gia.edu/reportcheck/

a lot of vendors usually email you the pdf of the gia cert, but with just getting the number you can get a bunch of numbers rather than wait for them to email em to you...although with an SI grade you want the visual map of inclusions if they have it so you can pick one w/inclusions under the facets, rather than in the heart of the stone

 

[belle]

Date: 11/1/2007 2:51:54 PM
Author: clipper37
actually, there is no danger in looking at a diamond for reference on prices(what, no love for very good cuts now? that didn''t last long)

much to the contrary, if you are actually shopping you''d do the research to double check specs(thanks Gontama for hitting up gia report check) and check the gia (additionally putting it through the Holloway as I cited, it should be easy to get all information....little harder with some other vendors, but this info is accessible).

Now that I have thrown an example out it has been established that a diamond, for less, is definitely tangible, within the specs we have all set in this thread.

So no need to be scared, Halloween is over.

I doubt it is intensional deceit, i just checked two other stones on angara and the certs matched the website specs for the items(abazias does do that bogus grading of cut their own way=often diff than the cert)...s2K should be able to drop somethin hot for the budget, even better prolly since this very good was a decent amount under that dude''s price quote which didn''t even have a gia(let alone the highly treasured ags)...an ideal gia which does well on Holloway shouldn''t be hard to find for a solid price below the top of your budget s2k

g''luck
_____________________________________

not scared at all, i''m just being cautious with the information i throw out there to newbies.
definitely no love lost for the gia very goods, i still love mine!

it just takes more diligence to find the best.

s2k, glad you are going to be able to see the goods in person. there is no better way to pick a diamond! if you want a little extra peace of mind, i would highly recommend getting an idealscope to take along with you.

good luck! let us know how it goes!

 

[clipper37]

citing an exclusion on information (and a link to the resolution) is informative; one should be encouraged to find what is within their reach while there is no shortage of price gouging opportunists. Too many purchasers do not get what they pay for.

i couldn''t agree more on the diligence, this site has was instrumental to me learning a lot to help me pursue the process more aptly.

While I may not know d#ck compared to many others on here, of one aspect I''m sure: the ability to find values through safe vendors (long return periods, etc.), I''m all about pursuing the lowest price of like specd diamonds (and researching all attributes of said diamond~which will of course include s2k reading much, much, more of the articles, threads, and like on this and other sites).

_________________________________