newbie posting - how good is this RB??

[rkp2be]

hi all... longtime lurker, i''ve learned much from this place!! after much searching, FF has put a (refundable) deposit on the diamond below... i''d love to get a few more opinions on the quality.

1.50 round brilliant
7.34x7.29x4.49
D/SI2
table: 57%
depth: 61.4%
crown height: 16%
pavilion depth: 42%
pol/sym: vg/vg
no flour
cert: EGL USA
HCA score 0.9 (vg on spread, ex on everything else; says "ex w/in FIC range")
$9,900

a few things:
1) at first i was concerned about the EGL cert, as i haven''t read the most favorable things about them on here. i''ve since discovered that while they tend to be softer in color, they are pretty much in line with everything else and sometimes stricter or as strict as GIA in clarity. as the diamond is colorless, i''m honestly not concerned if another lab would grade it E instead of D.

i also read that EGL has been known to give vg ratings of pol/sym for the same diamonds that GIA/AGS would rate ex/id. has anyone else heard this?

2) it is eye-clean, meaning neither FF nor i could see squat upon CLOSE [read: 2 inches from face] inspection.

3) my concern: we were told this stone is essentially "ideal"... but i''ve gotten conflicting info on whether the crown & pavilion %''s fall w/in that "ideal" range. insight on this? a number of charts show the 42% pavilion as below the acceptable range for ideal (most starting at 42.5 or 42., but one place showed it w/in range but the crown % as too high.

4) given the stats and minimal difference, does #3) even matter?

we''ve seen the stone (twice)... it''s really very beautiful, but seemed more fiery than bright - may have been due to the lighting (flourescent office lighting w/ diffused daylight coming in from large windows)?

sorry for the long post... thanks SO much for any thoughts/insight!

rachel

ETA: i don''t have info on the culet so i guessed (i know, i''m bad)... i''m 95% positive that it is very small to negligible so i played around w/ the #s in HCA. the .9 is for 0%. culet of 1% would make the score 1.5, scintillation drops to vg.

 

[:)]

My two cents - I had an EGL stone - granted it was not EGL USA, but is WAS two clarities lower and two color grades lower than stated, and worth thousands and thousands less than what was paid for it. Make sure you can have it verified by an independent appraiser (not a jeweler), and return it if it doesn't match up.
% values for crown and pavilion are not as accurate as percentages, but no, I would not classify this as 'ideal'. This would not be my first choice for an ering stone. You did see more fire because it is a FIC. It is facing up slightly smaller for weight because of that too.


ETA: could you get IS pics of this stone? Also if you really love it, then have them let you walk it out in daylight, etc so that you can check it in different lighting conditions to make sure you still love the look. Also look at it outside b/c my EGL stone looked completely eyeclean indoors, then when taken outside the inclusions really jumped out

 

[aljdewey]

If you love the stone (and it sounds like you do), then I''d take it to an independent appraiser. He is best qualified to assess the stone and tell you if you''re getting your money''s worth.

 

[rkp2be]

thanks so much for the help! so i was right about it not being *ideal* but it is "fiery ideal"? is this because of the pavilion %?

"" would you not chose this because it''s not ideal cut, or for other reasons?

i''m going back this evening to see if i can get the girdle & culet info, and i''ll mention the IS.

from crown & pavilion tutorial:
"Many labs use grading systems with minimum & maximum crown and pavilion angles that penalizes cutters who produce BIC''s and FIC''s. The American Gem Society Lab was first to adopt this ''inverse proportion'' approach. GIA is likely to follow soon."
--does this mean an FIC is not *bad*, just not as good as TIC or a different kind of good?

Also, "Small variances in crown and pavilion angles cause less problems if table sizes are in the range of 55% to 58%" - do they mean variances w/in the ideal range, or variances period?

would it benefit me to see if i can get a sarin report? i actually have no clue what that is

, but it could get me the angles as opposed to %''s right?

sorry for all the questions, you guys know so much and we just want to make the best decision!!

i can''t take it to an independent appraiser right now, as we don''t have the stone (FF is paying cash for it, the store is holding it for us indefinitely until he pays for it in full). but i DEFINITELY can/will. there''s a 30-day money-back guarantee and a 90-day price protection. also lifetime upgrades (no min amt) which we could always take advantage of.

thanks again!

 

[:)]

If you have seen it in person and really love it, then that trumps all else. Just PLEASE make sure to have it independently appraised. I am still upset about my EGL experience (in case that wasn''t evident..!), so I want to make sure that you do not have a similar one (I had an IGI experience too, but that is for another thread!). I also have been disappointed in EGL USA b/c they never responded to several calls (despite calling both the NY and LA offices and getting a ''oh we will have someone call you back'' reply when I explained why I was calling and they did not know the answer) or emails requesting to know their criteria to define ''ideal'' versus ''ideal plus'' which apparently no one knows the criteria that they use (I kept getting a ''oh, but it''s ideal'' answer, but no one could define either ideal or ideal plus for me!!) Their lack of ability to define their own labels resounded very poorly with me.

It does sound like your jeweler has some very nice policies - just make sure you get them in writing!

An ideal scope (IS) pic would help to assess too so we could look for leakage. If you plug the #s in the cut advisor you see that the stone falls just below the white and green boxes, outside of AGS ideal candidate range, and outside of GIA ex candidate range. It could still be a very beautiful stone, especially if you have given it the ''in person eye test'' already! Just please also have your jeweler take you outside with it in daylight (shaded and direct) to make sure no inclusions pop out at you (harkening back to my EGL paranoia...!)

A firey stone will not appear quite as bright, but will show lots of nice flashes of color. Garry has mentioned before that when he has shown a FIC next to a TIC, couples often find the FIC more ''romantic'' and pretty due to the flashes of color. The high crown angle helps with fire (smaller tables help too), and so some of the weight goes into the higher crown, with a slight loss in spread, but an increase in flashes of color. Since a stone can only show white light or colored light in each spot at any given moment, this is why the FIC does not appear as bright as a BIC or TIC - it is because it is showing flashes of color. Have you looked at a lot of stones before seeing this one? Have you seen any Hearts on Fire or Leo cuts, etc just to compare the looks?

Here is a link on FIC versus BIC - a TIC is in between..
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm

Go with your eyes, but have an independent appraiser check it out too (I know, I know - broken record..!)

 

[chrono]

I''d third the idea of an appraisal. Fortunately, for me, my experience with EGL USA has been very satisfactory. The colour and clarity grading were accurate as stated in their certificate. If everything checks out well, it could be a good buy.

 

[rkp2be]

thanks for the info! i have seen HOF diamonds, but under that special lighting in mall stores... this diamond i''ve only seen in an office (it was dark tonight so i couldn''t take it outside to check!). i did compare it against 2-3 other "ideal cut" stones when we first put it on hold, and it held it''s own but i didn''t know enough about the numbers at that point to be critical about the ideal grading of the other stones.

i couldn''t get an IS image... but i think i read on here that someone could create a virtual one using the proportions??

add''l info:
cutlet: none
girdle: medium
graining: none

the vendor mentioned dropping the price too, so it''s evidently not set in stone (no pun intended!).

i took a friend with me who has (what we''ve since discovered is) a shallower non-ideal RB (1.41, 7.37mm) which i''ve always thought is so beautiful and sparkles like mad... it was very interesting to see the difference between the two! they were very close, but the 1.5 had more colorful sparkles and looked like it had more facets, while her''s had a few more white flashes.

and don''t worry, if we keep it as an option it''ll definitely go for an indie appraisal.

 

[rkp2be]

*bump* for someone to help with a virtual IS image??