Newbie has some easy questions: Knock them out of the park!

[navy_pilot]

Hello,

I have some serious questions... please respond, I will take all responses very, very seriously!

1- What is the difference between "Radiant" cut and "Princess" cut? If I have a prefectly square radiant, then how do they differ?

2- Why do radiants cost WAY MORE than princess?

3- I have seen the stone I plan on buying under a 30x microscope, so I am not worried about it not living up to expectations, however, is there any big knock on the EGL certs as compared to the GIA/AGL standard certs?

4- What is a good method of getting the stone appraised? Should I get more than one?

5- I am really wondering about this... I have been reading this forum a lot over the past few months and people often gleefully post the stats from their new diamond purchase... including depth and table #''s among other things. What in the heck am I "looking for" when I see these #''s? What is "good?" What are the guidelines for a good stone''s #''s?

Thanks a lot. I will hopefully be posting some stats soon!

 

[cmcwill]

Navy, check this site out:
www.gemappraisers.com

click on the left menu for AGA chart and rules...pick either princess or radiant from the drop down menu at the top right.

There is also www.rcdc.com which is the branded radiant cut. They have facet outlines you can look at an compare to a princess cut facet map. Not many radiants will look like this though. Also, check out www.goodoldgold.com, they have tons of info on both radiants and princesses. Go to their 'for sale' link and click on fancy shapes. You can see how the faceting is different for the two.

Not sure why you think radiants cost more. Branded radiants will of course.

I think there is some posts here where an EGL cert ended up being 1-3 grades off a GIA/AGS cert...that's why there's a stigma with EGL....might depend on which EGL lab though.

Good luck!
Colleen

 

[verticalhorizon]

This is my first stab at contributing back to this community. I just signed up a little over a week ago, and like you, am looking for modified square brilliants... just another word for square cut diamonds.

Princess rocks are cheaper, due to popularity, which for me is hard to believe, b/c there aren't that many fans of them here. They are gorgeous. I wanted to get one for my GF, b/c she likes the square look. However, there are all sorts of nitty gritty details you have to beware of in terms of the numbers to prevent getting one that looks too glassy, or not bright enough, or too thin in the girdle and prone to chipping.

Sheesh... lots to think about huh?

The problem with Radiants is that there is no sure-fire-end-all standard for them. Most are just Princess cuts with the corners cut off. Some more closely resemble a combo of RB's and Emeralds. They are almost all rectagular, so if square is what you want, then you've got a search on your hands. Likewise with Princess, anything over a 1 to 1.4 ratio isn't considered square anymore.

I just about threw my hands up in defeat.

That is until I discovered other square fancy cut stones like Lucere, Flanders, Queen of Hearts, and... it's a stretch, but the Regent, which is by far the most gorgeous, but really not quite square enough for my liking.

The down side? These rocks are much harder to come by for a variety of reasons. I'll let you search the boards for those names so you can catch up.

here is a link with a chart on what to look for in Princess cut and Radiant diamonds.

http://www.gemappraisers.com/

Go to the DIY cut grading and you can either plug in numbers or just look at the chart below. Remember, Radiants and Princess cuts have larger flat tables (top) while Round Brilliants, for example, have smaller tables. The cut is key when it comes to brilliance and fire.

So far, square diamond seekers have had to sacrifice a certain amount of brilliance and scintillation for the shape. However, there seems to be new alternatives on the horizon, so keep checkin in this group and read, read, read.

DiagonalMan
"Giving back to the community."

PS: I owe all my meager knowledge thus far to the generous and respectible members of this community. These are good people.

 

[hoorray]

I don't know anything about radiants, so can't answer that.

EGL certs from non-USA labs (especially Isreal) have a reputation of lieniant grading. Thus, what they might call E color, GIA/AGS might call F or even G. The same with clarity grades. Since prices are determined on these specs, you don't want to pay for an E if it is not an E (or whatever the final specs may be.) Sometimes EGL stones can be a bargain -- you just have to know that the stone really is what they say it is, so make sure there is a return policy and have it appraised independantly.

You shouldn't need more than one appraisal. Get smart up front. Read the tutorials here, at Niceice.com, goodoldgold.com, etc. Check out the gemsppraisers.com cut evaluator, post questions and specs and people here will try to help in the selection process. Then have one or more stones sent to an independant appraiser to a.) help finalize the buying decision, b.) verify the stone is what they say it is, and c.) give you an appraisal for insurance purposes, and you should be good to go! Simple -- huh?!?

Since you are looking at a fancy cut, how it looks to you is as important as the specs, so you might want to narrow it down to 2-3 stones, and have them all shipped to an appraiser local to you. You can then have an expert help you eye-ball them and make the final decision.

As far as finding a good appraiser, there is a list of recommended ones on the PS menu above. The key is to make sure they are truly independant and do not sell stones themselves. There are some accreditations that are top notch also, but I forget what they are. There was a thread about it lately, so do some searches.

Good luck!

 

[navy_pilot]

Wow, thanks a lot!

I think you share my mindset. I don't care about the official name, but I am definitley looking for a square stone. It seems like I prefer a radiant look to a princess look becasue when you factor in the prongs, they make the radiant stone look square, but when you put the prongs on the corners of a princess, it almost looks too square I guess. I haven't seen too many example though.

Can I send in the loose stone into the GIA or AGL and get them to map and certify it? If so, how mush will it cost, which one is better, and is this worth it?

I checked out those links and I am learning from them. I appreciate it.

ALSO, do either of you have a preference between white gold and platinum?

THANKS!

 

[navy_pilot]

This is great appraisal advice, thank you. You are saying definitley to get the stones appraised BEFORE setting them into the ring? And then get the entire ring appraised?

 

[verticalhorizon]

Bunch of answers for you...

Not sure if you can send stones to the GIA/AGS directly, but a good quality appraiser (pref. that does not sell diamonds), will give you a safe description of what the stone really is. Appraiser will definitely be cheaper than sending it to the GIA, if possible.

But then again, it really doesn't seem to make sense if you COULD send it to GIA. Diamonds are notoriously difficult to sell back... to anywhere! (Precious stones my arse.) The only reason to get a GIA cert after-market, would be in the event of trying to sell it to someone else later on.

Realistically, you probably shouldn't buy rocks off the internet without the cert saying what it is. Once you know what the info on these documents mean, you can get a real good idea of what you're buying. Then the appraisal confirms this. Don't buy anything without a money back guarantee, no matter what.

The great thing about buying off the Internet, is that with good vendors, all the info you need to make a good buying decision is readily available by the people who KNOW. In stores or the mall, very seldom any of them know their ear from their elbow.

Diamonds are always easier to be appraised when they're loose, then when they're set. The setting can sometimes get in the way. I think sometimes, they take the rock out anyway. Someone else can confirm or deny this part.

White gold is cheaper than Platinum, but begins to show a little yellow wear over time, b/c there really is no "white" gold. Maybe a year or so, and then has to be re-treated. However, it's said that gold holds its lustre better than Platinum. Platinum, on the other hand, is by it's very nature that silver color, so it will never wear off, but sometimes looses that shiny appeal, but can be polished. I was warned that you should not pair a platinum e-ring with a gold wedding band, because the one with wear down the other. Sounds feasible doesn't it? I dunno. Just to warn you.

Are you ready yet for the most frustrating purchase of your life. This is far worse than purchasing my Eclipse three years ago. Go read goodoldgold.com. Sometimes the navigation makes it hard to read, but there's A LOT of info there.

 

[Hest88]

If the purpose of the appraisal is to confirm that the stone if what you want, then you should definitely do it loose.

Visually, to my eye a radiant has more of "swirly" circular effect while a princess is has distinct triangular facets. Thus, both could be rectangular or square, but I don't think you see many obviously rectangular princesses cut nowadays.

 

[hoorray]

You get a better appraisal with the stone loose, but they can do it either way. If you are sure it is the one for you you can go ahead and set it first. But if you have doubts, leave it loose, have it appraised and then the appraiser can typically help arrange for it to be set. They will usually be willing to update the appraisel to include the full ring, once it is set.

Once you select a stone and appraiser, ask them both their opinion about the logistical process -- there are several options.

 

[verticalhorizon]

One more thing about the "Name" of the stone.

Prices vary more for generic names like Princess and Radiant cut. Just like everything else in life. I can buy Pathmark brand tomato soup or Progresso.

But what you get with some of the name cut stones is a higher standardization and quality. They're held to a more stringent cutting process. The trick is to find a brand that costs less than the others.

For instance, if you like the Tiffany Lucida, then The Lucere is by far cheaper. And chances are the Queen of Hearts, cheaper still. And yet, all three are probably more expensive than many Princess cuts you can find, however it will be far more work on your part to find the perfect balanced Princess than it will be in the other cuts. Finding a vendor who sells those cuts are another matter.

So there's plenty of trade-offs to be had.

 

[navy_pilot]

Wow, it sounds like you really did go through my exact decision process! I will keep these things in mind and my eye out for those stones!