new to diamond shopping. help?

[Kem]

My boyfriend and I have been looking around at some rings, mostly at department stores and yesterday at Tiffanys. After what we saw in Tiffany''s I think we are both in agreement that most of the department store diamonds we saw do not compare. We are fairly certain we can get a comparable/better diamond from an online vendor for less money than a tiffany diamond, but we are new to diamonds and not sure where to begin. We know we want a round, Ideal/Excellent cut diamond, F or better in color (maybe G), and VS1 or 2. We were looking at diamonds that were about a carat, a little smaller if we can''t find what we want within our budget, I think we would rather have a smaller, good quality stone than something bigger that would force us to compromise on color or cut. We are also concerned that the places we have looked so far (Good Old Gold and Whiteflash) sell loose diamonds that are less expensive, but we also want a platinum setting and once we add that to the price there is less difference between that and tiffany. We also have no idea about crown angles and fluorescence and all those other details they don''t mention at the retail stores. Can anyone give us some recommendations, places to start looking? My boyfriend is also nervous about not being able to see the diamond with his own eyes if we go with an internet vendor and not getting the sort of warranty you get from the places we have looked. We have around a 10K budget. Does it sound reasonable to get the type of stone we are looking for in that price range- especially as we are hoping to find one that is a carat or slightly bigger?

 

[belle]

hi kem! welcome to ps

you have a great budget!

you will be able to get at least the 1ct. that you are looking for easily. a good place to start is here: http://www.pricescope.com/sift.aspx you can put in different size and color/clarity combinations to find a greater selection of stones as well.

 

[avlis]

you can do quite well with a budget of $10k. although the truth to that statemnt really depends on what kind of setting you wanted. how much is the setting you want? subtract that from your budget, subtract another 200 for appraisal and extra shipping costs, then you have your diamond budget.

for example this stone is just over a carat, an AGS 000, G VS2, stone for a little under 8K. there is a little bit of painting going on, but most of those polar bear diamonds are like that.

if you want to spend more on your setting.. GoG also has a nice selection of 0.9-0.97 stones right now at about $6k.

and ofcourse this wouldnt be pricescope without someone mentioning that if you can go to an eyeclean SI1, or drop to H in color, you can move up to the 1.25ct area (about $8k), with some nice Expert Selection stones over at Whiteflash.

do you know what setting you want? or atleast the style?

 

[MWG]

You can find a great stone and setting for under 10K and you are looking at two great vendors to buy from. You cant go wrong. Also, remember to mention Pricescope to get a discount and use a bank wire and you can save 5%. Plus no taxes and lifetime upgrade policies.

I love my ACAs from WhiteFlash.

Good Luck
MWG

 

[Kem]

I am not sure how much a setting will cost. I want just a very simple platinum setting, four or six prong (I really like the tiffany 6 prong setting but haven''t seen another I like quite as much) set low. I know platinum costs quite a bit more than white gold, but I''ve pretty much got my heart set on it. I was hoping I could get a setting that i was happy with for less than 1K, but after looking around I''m starting to think it''s going to cost me atleast $500 more than that.

I am not sure how to go about getting a stone appraised and can you do that and send it back if it is not what you want? We are worried about going to an SI1 because we are afraid we won''t be able to tell if it is truly eyeclean.

Thanks for the help!

 

[cinnamon013]

Most, if not all of the PS vendors have return policies (windows vary), so you can receive the diamond and decide for yourself if it's the one. My SI1 is eyeclean. And your vendor should be able to tell you this as well. They have lots of experience and if you tell them you want to determine if it's eyeclean, they will look at it and tell you.

10k is a large budget, so you shouldn't have trouble finding what you want.



Here is a stone listed on Whiteflash. It would be a beauty!!!! G would be no problem in a H&A ACA stone, you will think it's really white.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-179760.htm
1.122 ct G VS2 A Cut Above H&A
$8,770.00 Item Available - Ready to ship

Item Code: AGS-8051704
. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 1.122
. Depth %: 61.6
. Table %: 56.7
. Crown Angle: 34.8
. Crown %: 15.2
. Star : 52
. Pavilion Angle: 40.9
. Pavilion %: 43.1
. Lower Girdle %: 76.2
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 6.65-6.69X4.11
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

Another:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-179742.htm#
1.112 ct G VS2 A Cut Above H&A
$8,328.00 Item Available - Ready to ship

Item Code: AGS-8051603
. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 1.112
. Depth %: 61.6
. Table %: 55.7
. Crown Angle: 34.8
. Crown %: 15.6
. Star : 50.9
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76.5
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.65-6.68X4.10
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible
Another - this is a "likely to be eyeclean" SI1. Just ask them to check it out at WF. See what a great value it is!

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-179726.htm#
1.117 ct G SI1 A Cut Above H&A
$6,877.00 Item Available - Ready to ship

Item Code: AGS-8051801
. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 1.117
. Depth %: 61.5
. Table %: 56.9
. Crown Angle: 34.8
. Crown %: 15.2
. Star : 51
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 75.5
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.65-6.72X4.10
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible


If you want to go to a larger rock, check this out:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-312250.htm#


Now, concerning the setting. There are oodles of tiffany style solitaires listed on WF. Just check them out.

Be sure to ask WF about the PS discount. Any of the above stones will be reduced 1) for mentioning PS and additionally 2) if you wire the money. The setting will get a small PS discount (or is it wire) as well.

Good luck shopping! Ask lots of questions!

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 6/30/2007 11:15:40 AM
Author: Kem
I am not sure how much a setting will cost. I want just a very simple platinum setting, four or six prong (I really like the tiffany 6 prong setting but haven''t seen another I like quite as much) set low.

This one''s $450...is it like what you want?

The math is pretty clear. If you''d prefer Tiffany''s, that''s another thing.

Double check the suggestions above with Belle''s link...I always do. There''s oodles of diamonds...some above 1.2 carats meeting your other requirements as well.

Best,

 

[MWG]

Date: 6/30/2007 11:15:40 AM
Author: Kem
I am not sure how much a setting will cost. I want just a very simple platinum setting, four or six prong (I really like the tiffany 6 prong setting but haven''t seen another I like quite as much) set low. I know platinum costs quite a bit more than white gold, but I''ve pretty much got my heart set on it. I was hoping I could get a setting that i was happy with for less than 1K, but after looking around I''m starting to think it''s going to cost me atleast $500 more than that.

I am not sure how to go about getting a stone appraised and can you do that and send it back if it is not what you want? We are worried about going to an SI1 because we are afraid we won''t be able to tell if it is truly eyeclean.

Thanks for the help!

WhiteFlash will send you an appraisal for your diamond from an independant appraiser free of charge. With a 10K budget why go SI1, go VS. You have to be mind clean about your decision. My fiancee picked out an SI1 stone, but I had to have a VS quality stone.... the SI1 was gorgeous and completely eye clean, but in my mind I had to have a VS quality stone.

Plus, the return policy of PS vendors is usually very good. Just read the terms of whatever vendor you purchase from.

 

[Kem]

This may sound like a silly question, but what is the difference between an ACA diamond from whiteflash and all the other cuts and things from GoG? I am not looking for a deep debate about which brand/cut whatever it is is the best, but more just, are there specific identifying characteristics of a hearts and arrows or an eighternity or solasfera that I could see with the naked eye? And how much more do I pay for these characteristics?

Also, can you buy a setting from whiteflash without buying a diamond from them? And, is the appraisal they or GoG would send with the diamond enough to insure the diamond or would I need an independent appraisal?

 

[junior35]

Kem,
1. Try to keep it simple.The Eighternity and Solasfera are modified round cuts with added facets on top and/or bottom.
You''ll be able to compare stones much easier if you stick to one specific cut.

2. Don''t trash Tiffany''s so quickly. They provide their own diamond grading report,but I happen to know for a fact that Tiffany''s grading is super,super strict.
An H VS2 at Tiffany''s could very well be a G VS1 at GIA!
3. They are also completely anal when it comes to proportion and symmetry.
4. That said, there are really great online vendors today with whom you can place your confidence. So shop around,but compare apples with apples and don''t get confused with different cuts and brands.

 

[Kem]

So having made a couple of decisions and done a little research I have still more questions! Mostly centered around the ACA diamonds at whiteflash. My boyfriend is really worried because he does not want to be the person deciding whether the diamond he chooses is really what he wants. What appealed to him about tiffany''s (I am not knocking it, junior, but I have noticed a difference in price and both of us are pretty certain about the kind of ring we want and unable to negotiate about budget) was that any stone he would find there would be a quality diamond. What I am wondering now is if the ACA will give him that kind of reassurance at a slightly smaller premium. He has no problem paying for peace of mind, but we can only pay so much, as we absolutely cannot go over our 10K budget and I have my heart set on a diamond that is 1c or larger and a platinum setting (the ones at whiteflash, by the way, look great to me- is it better to get the stone set with the same vendor you buy the diamond from?). Any opinions on the ACA diamond?

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Alot of good examples have been given to you for the G and below colors, which are wonderful and I would say go for a nice G. But, since you were liking the F-D color range and VS2-VS1 and you are spending 10k, I say get something you feel is fantastic, and looks fantastic, so below are some options with ACA option at the end. You may have already seen them, but I figured I would bring them to your attention since I hadn't seen them posted.

The ACA diamonds are great but it is also possible to get other diamonds that are just as beautiful, just as you can get diamonds just as beautiful as Tiffany's elsewhere.

My first move would be to find out information on diamonds such as this:

One option

If you do not ever plan on upgrading our diamond down the line. (As I am sure many women would not want to for the sake of sentimental value)

or this one:

I like this one the most of the non ACA so far

it already has the information listed and if you look at the ideal scope image you will see alot of nice hot spots, very little light leakage along the girdle, very consistent coloring and it is an F VS1 within your budget even without a discount. Then you can always use a credit card with a discount/bonus and pay it off for at least most of the purchase, or money wire if you want the 2.5% i think it is.


But if you are interested in the 100% lifetime upgrade that I don't think comes with expert selections then I would highly recoomend some of these F-D color VS:


8700 F VS2

1.135ct EVS2 9100

1.21 F VS2 9500


D VS1 9740

Of all of those I personally have seen I would probably pick the FVS2 at 1.21 cts and get the platinum for 450 and wire them the money. if you don't plan on wiring the money I would personally then get the EVS2 for 1.135cts.

Both of those are of course pending that the inclusions are not visible from any angle and are white/clear. In the end, if one of them had a black inclusion that would be a deal breaker for me, as I would have no interest in paying all of that money to one day locate a black inlcusion with my naked eye.

As mentioned above if YOU want a F-D color, and you want a very very clean diamond that there is NO way of seeing anything with your naked eye, and you probably couldn't find with a loupe, then I think this is def your choice.

But if you are happy with a G color and you are happy with it being eye clean from the top and maybe from the side, then def hunt down a fantastic G SI1 that is larger than these or use the extra money to consummate your new ring on a small "honeymoon".

And if you don't really care about the title Hearts and Arrows and you are not concerned with a lifetime upgrade policy then I say search for ideal cuts on other sites and the Expert selection at white flash where you could find even larger/cheaper diamonds in the colorless VS range and G SI1 range or any combination of the above.

It would be a hard decision for me to make too! though I envy your budget, I don't envy having to make the choice!

 

[cinnamon013]

IMO, G ACA H&As will not have color that would make you reject them as not being white enough. Mine is BLINDING white and it''s a G.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

I hear you, and like we all know, side profile shots is where you would really note color in G/H ideal cuts. However, though I have to be up in 4 hours, I couldn't go to sleep and had diamonds on my mind. So I wanted to come up with a way to make the process a little easier for her.

My real concern in this situation is in a few months how she will feel. She wanted a tiffany ring apparently, and she wanted to be in the colorless range and VS range--which she could have gotten in with Tiffany. Thus, if she improves size slightly, improves price a bit, and decreases color and clarity, and removes the Tiffany name, will she really be happy in a few months?

My first thoughts were that if she sacrifices "quality" and The tiffany name then she has two minuses, and two/one pluse(s) for size and/or financial savings, but if she maintains equivalent quality she has 3 pluses and one minus (the loss of tiffany name). I don't think there is anyway she would regret the latter, but maybe the former.

Thus I was thinking that the best solution to this would be an equation.
It would run as such

The value of having a Tiffany ring=X
The value of having Colorless and VS quality=Y
The value you place on a given size=W
The value place on Cost=Z

Now to make it easier on variables I will plug in numbers based on a guess of how you feel:

The value of having a Tiffany ring=10
The value of having Colorless and VS quality=10
The value you place on 1ct or more=8
The value of staying under 10,000 dollars=50points


a total of 78 points.

Then calculate the net change in points based on purchasing a diamond online:

___________________

Say for sacrificing the Tiffany name put replacing it with G, SI1 ACA cost minus 8 points (2 total)

For sacrificing color and quality to G, SI1 is minus 6 points due to loss of mental satisfaction and possibly slight visual satisfaction from certain angles. (4 total)

The value of going over 1ct, to 1.3=plus 5 points (13 total)

The value of staying under 10,000= 50 points (50 total)

thus 69 total points.

____________________

Now for purchasing a diamond at tiffany's she would have

A tiffany ring. (10 points)

Mental Confidence in Tiffany quality that should be colorless and is at least VS. (10 points)

smaller than 1ct (this would depend on the exact size available) but lets say minus 5 points. (total of 5 points)

under 10k=50 points (50 total)

Total to buy a smaller diamond at Tiffany's is about 75 total points.

_________________

This means that to buy G SI1 in my scenario online brings 69 points depending on the size and how much it means to her

To buy at tiffany's nets 75 points

Thus the net benefits of buying the lower quality larger stone online would be -6 points and that means that overtime she may feel that she has made the wrong decision and regret it.

__________

However, run those same numbers but give her the equivalent to higher quality diamonds available online and you get

Tiffany name replaced with ACA (2 points total)

Quality F-D VS- (10 points total)

Larger size- (13 points total)

under 10k-(50)

totals 75 points

___________

Thus in this scenario she would be equally as happy with the purchase.


However these are just numbers that I made up. Only she could really weigh how much each factor means to her. Perhaps size means more and tiffany name less than I had assumed, then the higher quality might still be the best option but it would have a significant advantage over the tiffany option. But I would personally try to create an equation to convey my emotions in numbers to determine what the wisest course of action is.

And obviously if after studying and looking at colors she determined that G or H had a very minimal impact on the scores, and at the same time tiffany name brand meant less, then suddenly the G/SI1 option become particularly enticing. Anyway, I think math is the safest way to represent the problem and ensure you don't end up regretting your decision int he coming months, but maybe I am crazy and tired

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/1/2007 8:57:49 PM
Author: Kem
So having made a couple of decisions and done a little research I have still more questions! Mostly centered around the ACA diamonds at whiteflash. My boyfriend is really worried because he does not want to be the person deciding whether the diamond he chooses is really what he wants. What appealed to him about tiffany''s (I am not knocking it, junior, but I have noticed a difference in price and both of us are pretty certain about the kind of ring we want and unable to negotiate about budget) was that any stone he would find there would be a quality diamond. What I am wondering now is if the ACA will give him that kind of reassurance at a slightly smaller premium. He has no problem paying for peace of mind, but we can only pay so much, as we absolutely cannot go over our 10K budget and I have my heart set on a diamond that is 1c or larger and a platinum setting (the ones at whiteflash, by the way, look great to me- is it better to get the stone set with the same vendor you buy the diamond from?). Any opinions on the ACA diamond?

Hi Kem,

I understand the apprehension. Speaking from experience, I bought my ering stone and setting (my first online purchase) from GOG. My stone is an Isee2. I then purchased studs from WF, they are ACA''s. They are equally stunning, and beautiful.

I was recently in Chicago and hit a bunch of high end jewelry stores, including Tiffany''s. My stones were just as nice, and in some cases better, than anything I saw. So, no worries with an ACA.

As for getting the setting at the same place vs. another, lots of people have done both. If you find one you love somewhere else, just have it sent to WF to set the stone.

HTH

 

[Regular Guy]

To Working Hard & others...

I think WF''s Expert Selections are available for upgrading too...

And this just for Working hard...

You might get a kick out of the Benn Stiller character in Along Came Polly...

Also, re your thought...

Date: 7/2/2007 2:44:45 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

I think math is the safest way to represent the problem and ensure you don''t end up regretting your decision int he coming months, but maybe I am crazy and tired

Just a warning...since I think this way too...is that these thought processes are allowed both on Pricescope, and with your significant other...but careful going too wide with this...people will make fun of you.

Affectionately...

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/2/2007 9:21:48 AM
Author: Regular Guy
To Working Hard & others...

I think WF''s Expert Selections are available for upgrading too...

They are.

 

[cinnamon013]

G from the side. Taken in a poorly lit hotel room.

 

[cinnamon013]

One more. WHFSR, thought you might enjoy these. I have compared to D, E, F, and G in our best B&Ms GIA stones that they stock, and the sales people even agree that it's white, and is every bit as good. I realize there is a grading color chart and G is lower than DEF, but it's still in the near colorless range, and IMO, a G AGS stone is going to be pretty darn purty!

 

[cinnamon013]

Last one.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Hey cin. Well, first I wanted to say that we all appreciate the photos! it is a fabulous ring and I wouldn''t mind switching with you before the engagement if you want and that WF setting is gorgeous, Even better than the photos on the site make it look.

However, I did want to keep up the discussion a bit.

One is that the fact it is an ACA will only affect the face up color in that it will effect light return and performance from the top. Thus that ACA factor really is irrelevant to the color from the side.

the second is that as far as trying to evaluate the subtle types of hues that we are talking about via a picture that has been condensed and put on pricescope--it really isnt reasonable. Who knows what type of lens, exact type of lights, monitor display, etc... that is being involved. Thus while it is valuable and a useful tool, it is certainly limited, especially when trying to evaluate the warmth of a lone G.

Also, at no time was I suggesting that G was bad, but only that if she were color sensitive, or for the sake of spending 10k on a ring she wanted a ring taht even color sensitive people would not notice any warmth in then that is totally reasonable. The real reason that I ran the search and made the comments was because she initially set boundries, and all of the suggestions were below those limitations that she had set. Yet it is very real and possible to get a 1.2ct within those boundries and within her price range--so I think that is def something worth considering.

Finally, the cheapest G VS2 ACA that I can find on WF is 8859 dollars with the PS discount. That means that the increase to get the F is 700 dollars, which is a fairly small percentage difference when talkinga bout such a big purchase. Also, the EVS2 that is slightly smaller is only a few hundred dollars more. Thus it is a very real possiblity with a combination of a very minimal size loss (one that when standing alone would be no noticably smaller than a G is yellow) and a very minimal price increase and walk away with an E VS2.

At any rate, you have fabulous diamond. I am going to be going home and comparing mine to your face up pictures the next time I get a chance when the sun is out. It is YUMMY