new tiffany ring..need HELP!

[mrssalvo]

Date: 9/5/2007 12:44:12 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Side by side, she might see the difference. I had a way-deep .72 that faced up a little small, which was traded in for an ideal cut .7 that faces up juuuust right, and side by side the .7 looked obviously bigger. But could I tell the size difference if they weren''t side by side? Probably not. I could DEFINITELY tell the cut difference, though.


This may have become a ''mind-clean'' issue for the OP. In which case it makes sense for her to see what she can do about it. But if the answer is ''nada!'' then I''m sure her diamond is WAY PLENTY gorgeous, and she will doubtless love it as such!

way-deep, and a hair of mm difference in diameter are too different things. my OEC was way deep, it was 1.2 carats with a 6.5 mm spread. could i tell a difference b/t that size next to an ideal 1.2 carat, sure..but the depth of her stone is not way deep, just a smidge over pricescope ideal depth range.

i understand the mindclean thing, but it just seems crazy that she loved the ring b/f the #''s and now doesn''t.

 

[LE]

For the money that you spent, you should be 100% in love with that ring and have no doubts after your purchase. I hope that Tiffany can find you a diamond that makes you happier!

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 9/5/2007 2:17:49 PM
Author: LE
For the money that you spent, you should be 100% in love with that ring and have no doubts after your purchase. I hope that Tiffany can find you a diamond that makes you happier!

I think he was...

"I just bought a 1.22 RB etoile diamond from tiffany's in nyc...i have no intrest in labels or brand names and i know i paid much more than if i had purchased from one of the online jewelers like blue nile or others..i know many people who purchased their rings and they are beautiful ..but something about this stone just jumped out at me..ive never seen such brilliance and fire on any diamond ever..in every light it simply glows, flashing and shooting colors..day,night, even under ugly office fluoresent the brightness and scintilation is startling..ive never seen such scintilation..now the problem..............................................................................................................."

My $.02, you having an ACA of 1.0 or 2.0 or 200.0 will make your Tiffany ring no different than any other Tiffany ring you try to sell or enjoy. If you had purchased an unbranded ring from 47th Street, perhaps I would be concerned. You bought a brand that retains it's value, even after the computer and the online forum is turned off for the night.

Many people here prefer certain parameters to achieve what they will measure as optimal light return. That is not to say that people who do not use these test will not achieve a greater appreciation for their jewlery. FYI: this is not a measure used in most the largest diamond transactions in the industry. On 47th Street alone, where these people sell and buy for a living, you will find that very few will have the same ideal numbers as some on this forum, and even fewer use these units of measure and tools. I believe every company determines their threshold, and if Tiffany's stone were so improperly cut, they would not outsell and be considered one of the foremost leaders in engagement ring sellers, based on quality. No one will ever claim your Tiffany ring is porrly made or badly cut.

This forum advocates a level of descrimination that is only applied to about 2% of the diamonds on the market, likely requested by at most 2-3% of the total diamond purchasers. Tiffany's grades and sells the top about 10% of the world's diamonds, in higher color and clarity than other regular retailers. So you can strive for that top 2% of the diamonds, or you can enjoy the lovely ring you first knew and loved as something of a piece of an ancient process, fashioned by craftsman, and set by artisans. What you have does not have to fit anyone's standards but your own. You were NOT ripped off, you just stumbled onto the market's choosiest and most precise group of diamond people.

Then you have those who find precision cut RBs to be "not their style". Too much symmetry to some makes them seem as if they came off an assembly line, when each diamond was created under very unique circumstances millions of years ago. Others will want exacting perfection (or close) to be able to measure the light return to the optimal degree...

It's like building your dream house that you and your familt love to pieces, just to have I.M. Pei or Frank Gehry come in and tell you that the airflow in the living room is not conducive to ventilating wind currents. Different needs have different extents of work involved and different levels of detail.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy your purchase, either way!

 

[Ty Cobb]

Here is another thread that Nicerez posted in that might help from July.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/accuracy-of-tiffany-certification-v-gia.64994/


Again, you are buying a guaruntee. If you are shopping at Tiffs the idea is to trust that they are cutting the diamond well for you and you are paying for that certainty that you are getting a good stone.

If you fell in love with it who cares what the HCA says.

Many graders have vastly different ideas of what a good cut is. In fact, some of the best stones I have seen at times, would not grade very well at all among this message boards members.

If you are shopping at Tiffs, Cartiers, BB&B, or wherever else, you are paying for peace of mind that you are getting a quality diamond, if it looks great to you, that should be all that matters.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Patric all of the advice you have been given by these lovely Pscopers is perfectly valid and i fully understand the emotional and brand / dream related stuff.
However I have a dry clinical role to play here and since I was the one who initially answered your question, I feel obliged to continue advising you.

But the choice of action is yours.
You can do what ever you want.
Of course we would like to know what you do, but you do not have to tell us.

 

[patric2007]

i want to thank each and everyone who has taken time to reply with such thoughful answer........................................yes i did react alot after finding this site because i want to feel that i got the best for the money i spent and after
reading that my diamond depth was too deep i compared it to my sisters 1.01 tiffany diamond ( mine is 1.22) and they looked almost exactly the same size...thats when i started becoming disillusioned with my ring..and finding out that the dimeter should have been a bit larger mine is (6.7mm something)..i felt like i wasted the money on a extra .20 points for nothing ..big diffrence in price between 1.00 and 1.22 at tiffanys...........................................................................................................................................and i had been bothered before i came to this site by the fact that the cert from tiff had exc. cut but gia was saying "very good"...the salesperson was looking into that but i had not had an answer yet so i geuss i reacted emotionally...after reading all your posts i see that it''s not as important as i first thought .. i left a messege with the salewomen explaining the problem ..i should be hearing back fom her today and ill keep you all posted..part of me feels stupid and almost embarresed now to discuss it with her but its still bothering for some reason ........................................btw all the stones that i saw that day looked exactly the same in terms of sparkle and fire ..they all appear to be cut beautifully..the one i got fit into my paremeters for color,clarity and price .. so at this point im not sure what will happen ..the salewoman will probably try to convince me to stick with the ring i got and will tell me that thier all cut to maximum brilliance and changing rings for a different cut probably wont make a bit of difference...she might be right of course.,,..........................................................................i remeber i asked her about 59%table being a bit large she said "we go up to 60% ..and i said wouldnt a smaller table make it sparkle more by showing more of the crown? and she answered "look at that diamond... could it ever sparkle more?" she had me there..so its just the size and the certificate...again ill let you all know what happens.........................................................................................................................btw what is the optimum pavillion angle iwas told 2 diffent ones...40.6-41 or 42.8-43.2 which range is better..again thanks

 

[angeline]

patric, re the pav angle... 40.6-41 would be in degrees, and 42.8-43.2 would be in percentages %.

Good luck! ya gotta be happy when you''re spending that much cash..

 

[Ty Cobb]

There is a thread on here somewhere that talks about the Tiffany cut. It examines the tendency of Tiffs to have steeper crown angles, larger tables, and various other aspects that do not gell with HCA. I believe the general concensus of that thread was that Tiffany cuts their diamonds to maximize .... well wait a second, I will go find it an be right back.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 9/3/2007 9:10:18 AM
Author: mrssalvo
welcome to Pricescope..please do not get so caught up in the numbers that you lose sight of what you have, a gorgeous Tiffany ring that will be a future heirloom. The HCA is a wonderful tool and is especially usuful when buying stones online or unseen. you had the benefit of seeing the stone and fell it love with it. that is what matters, you wear the diamond, not the cert or paper or HCA score. I''m sure your ring is stunning and you should wear it proudly!!

Ditto!!

I''ve seen both Beacon and Kristy Darlings diamonds and they are WOW KNOCK OUT STUNNING. Yet, with respect with stats, they aren''t perfect. If it''s a beautiful stone, trust your eyes. You have a beautiful stone that knocked you out when you first saw it, and continues to... despite it''s score. Numbers don''t trump your eyes. Enjoy your beautiful ring.

 

[Ty Cobb]

Here it is-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will join in even though I might not be the most reliable source of information (though I have gotten better now! I was able to very easily detect the color face up in some very well cut H color diamonds today--albeit I began the observations by comparing them to my E.)

However, We all know what the HCA says, and we should also know that there are supposedly many wonderful beautiful cut combinations not recognized by the HCA. frther, since we know those HCA scores I suggest we put our collective minds together to figure out exactly why tiffany''s likes this combination together. Here our my thoughts:

The first thing that speaks out to me is the 80%LGF with 50% stars. My understanding is that this should create numerous pinpoint flashes of color as opposed to broader flashes with shorter LGF--but, as I said, they should be more numerous.

Then the crown angle, I understand, continues that phenomenon, making it even more exagerating. As we know, the FIC is supposed to consist of a higher crown angle along with other traits that yields less white light return but more pinpoints of fire. But that would benerally be higher crown angles right? Thus the crown angle here, it seems to me, COULD be a great balance between white light return and emphasizing those pinpoints of fire een more than the LGF already does.
Thus again, NUMEROUS pinpoints of fire over broader burst of fire.

But many people find broader burst of fire more attractive--my self being one--and so perhaps

The slightly higher pav. angle combined with the higher crown angle is reducing white light return JUST ENOUGHso that it reveals and emphasis the fire and makes it seem slightly broader than it woudl with "optimum" white light return--but not so much of a loss of rwhite light return as to make it look dark.

Thus my inexpericned analysis of the cut based on the assumption that Tiffany knows what it is doing as well as the HCA does, is that the cut that tiffany is using is designed to create more burst of fire and slightly reduce white light return so as to make the colors clearer and broader. Resulting in a fireball of a diamond that has more and clearly visible (translated to the eye as broad) flash of fire?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It does seem to make sense to me. Especially when you consider that most Tiff Diamonds I have run through HCA (regardless of how well they score) tend to lean towards the more fire are of the graph. I have found diamonds ranging from a .4 to a 1.8 to a 2.4 to a 3.1 and they were all on the more fire side of the chart.

 

[Nicrez]

Ty, interesting work. I would say that on the whole you are likely right, that has been my observation as well. Somewhat akin to older style cuts with less "precision" scintillation, but more fire than such cuts. Personal preference, and light return is quite tricky. Hence why so many people have spent so many years researching and toiling over it...

*hats off to them*

 

[Ty Cobb]

Nicerez,

The writing wasn''t mine, it was in a different thread back in July. However, the observation about where stones fit on the HCA scale is mine.

I just find it hard to believe that places like BB&B, Tiffanys, Cartier and such are all cutting their diamonds so grossly out of proportion for no reason.

 

[patric2007]

i just got off the phone with the manager of tiffanys nyc and he couldn''t have been nicer and more apolegetic that i had to worry over what is meant to be a good experience.................................................................................................................................. i explained the situation that while i loved the ring i was concered about the depth causing the ring to look smaller than it should and also the inconsitities in the certificates (though im not as concered about them since everyone here has done a very good job of explaining that GIA sometimes grades differently than tiffanys)...he is a gemologist but he''s having tiffany''s main gemologist call me in the morning to discuss it...and he said what ever the outcome tiffanys always pleases the client first and no matter when the ring was bought they will be more than happy to refund or find me EXACTLY what im looking for.................................................................................................................. i feel so much better about the whole situation now plus all the replys from posters who were kind enough to address the issue of tiffany cuttin differently than "ideal" standards and still producing spectacular looking stones .....mostly now its just an issue whether the stone was cut too deep and the size isnt reflecting the entire 1.22ct (slightly smaller diameter) do you think with the correct depth and better angles, which would enlarge the diameter a milimmeter or two it will look larger?................................................................................................................................................just feeling much better bout the whole thing and about my ring in general so in the end i might end up keeping it...id really be upset if i exchanged it for one with the slightest bit of diameter more and a better table that looked great in the store than get it home and not like it as much as the original,then ireally kick myself in the head.............................................................................................................well i wont be handing over mine till i see exactly what they show me side by side...unless of course im satisfied by the phonecall tommorow from the gemologist in which case it will just stay put on my hand..i geuss some of you might think this was very neurotic but its such an emotional purchase and so much money after reading this site i wanted to be sure...anyway l''ll keep you posted .... thanks

 

[Shay37]

I''m so glad that they are going out of their way to make you feel good. That says a lot. Just ask to see both rings side by side out of the jewelry store lighting. They should have a back office type area that you can compare under fluorescent or incandescent light as opposed to the halogens they use to make stones look rockin''. That should give you a good margin to compare and they shouldn''t care since you own one of them. You aren''t going to try to steal anything. You are there to compare and get exactly what you want. They want to make you happy.

shay

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, my hat is off to Tiffany for such excellent customer service!!! We simply cannot advise you. You need to go see some other stones in order to compare and satisfy YOURSELF!!! You''ll either know that your preference is for the exact stone you have, or if not, you were extremely lucky to find out while they were willing to let you exchange! Good luck and please come back and let us know what happens! And then we''ll need pictures of that ring!!!

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 9/6/2007 7:41:45 PM
Author: patric2007
i geuss some of you might think this was very neurotic but its such an emotional purchase and so much money after reading this site i wanted to be sure...anyway l''ll keep you posted .... thanks

Neurotic? No way, this is such a HUGE purchase! You need to be completely satisfied with your ring in the end, and if it was going to irk you to pay for almost a quarter more carat weight and not get any visual increase in size, I''d probably obsess over it too! I wish you all the best, as long as you post pics for us to see what you end up with.

 

[Ellen]

patric, I hope you find what you''re looking for, whether it be the stone you have now, or another. And I''m so glad to hear how well Tiffany''s is treating you. What a pleasure to have a jeweler stand behind their work so graciously. (not that I''d really expect less from this particular co.)

And please, we want to see pics of your ring when you''re done!

 

[Ty Cobb]

I too am pleased to hear Tiffany''s response. I have always had great customer service with them. Granted it is ussually in regards to their Gold and Silver jewelry. Only bought one diamond from them. However, after reading some of the stuff on this site I was beginning to think I had just lucked into a competent and considerate Tiffanys sales associate. Anyway, I am glad to know it will work out. I am quite certain that the gemologist will be able to give you a thorough explanation on why your stone is cut in the manner it is.

 

[patric2007]

il be going to tiffanys on friday so ill be calling the manger today to tell him what id like to have him bring in the store..the same size stone of course,color,clarity..since this is a size issue (my diamond appears small for its size,plus in a half-bezel setting it should really have enhanced the look of size) ill be asking for depth 60-61.5 or ( mine is 62.6)...and a smaller table 55-57...mine is 59...are there any other things i should request?....................................................................... when i put in the numbers the only thing that seems to improve the HCA is when i change the pavillion depth %... mine is 44.1..when i put in 40 or 41 the rating become excellent? should i discuss pavillion with them? will keep you all informed on this ongoing saga... thanks

 

[patric2007]

anyone out there? ive got to call by this morning...

 

[marcy]

I agree that if you love it in every light; then the numbers don''t matter. Wear and enjoy it. The most important thing is that you love it!