New diamond purchse - Opinions needed

[NewDiamondMan]

Hello everyone - I just came across this website and I think it is great for information, not to mention it seems many are very helpful with their opinions.

To make a long story short, I recently purchased a diamond and thought I had done enough research (this was before coming across this site). I purchased the following diamond:
1.18 ct round
62.3% depth (total)
55% table
ex/ex polish/symmetry
GIA certified

Here are my questions:
1.) Should I be concerned about the diamond quality as it is not an AGS certified diamond, in particular to the brilliance of the diamond? I did not know about the "ideal-scope or the hearts and arrows test" prior to purchasing. From the websites I previously found, those dimensions seemed to be within the range of an "ideal" diamond - again this was before I knew pavillion and crown angles are important (and not listed on GIA certificates).
2.) Can a diamonds brilliance be measured once its set? beyond just looking at it with a naked eye and comparing it to another diamond?
3.) Assuming I cannot get the crown and pavillion angles, based on the above specifications, can the diamonds vrilliance deteriorate that much if those angles are off?

Just by way of reference, I purchased from BArmakian Jewelers - which I have seen on here as having both good and bad opinions (which I imagine might be the case for many jewelers). My experience was good, though I wish I was more informed now.

 

[NewDiamondMan]

Sorry, its VS2 clarity!

Thanks.

 

[Rod]

Don''t let anyone lead you to believe an AGS graded stone is superior to a GIA graded stone. You got one of the best, most reliably graded stones you could buy. And the grading really doesn''t determine a stones brilliance. It''s true that with the older GIA reports, not having the pavillion and other measurements means you couldn''t put your stone through a sarin, but that doesn''t mean your stone is in anyway inferior. Many, many, many of us have GIA graded stones and we are very proud of our GIA graded stones indeed. Now, are the dimensions of the stone you have ideal. I don''t know. I''m not a diamond expert. But I do know that for most stones to be worthy of the expense of being graded by GIA, you probably have a pretty decent diamond in your pocket.

What did you pay for your stone?
Did you buy it after seeing it in person?
Have you seen it varrying lighting situations (inside light, outside)?
Does the seller offer a trade up policy?
Does the seller offer a refund policy?

We can all drive ourselves nuts with analyzing the numbers. Numbers are good, but mother earth baked your stone and that''s why all diamonds are different and no one group of numbers can fully tell what a diamond is capable of.

Bottom line, if you bought this stone after seeing it in person, and you bought it from a trusted resource, relax and have that puppy set in the setting that will make you happy or the person you intend it for.

Best wishes.............

 

[Patty]

With the info you''ve given us, it is hard to determine how good the cut is. But the numbers you posted look fine so far. To know more about the cut, yes, you would need to have the angles. Without a Sarin report, you probably don''t have those numbers.

Once a stone is set, you can still view it through an idealscope and a hearts and arrow viewer to see how much light leakage there is and whether or not the stone exhibits arrows. And don''t knock your own eyes! How does it look to you? How does it compare to other stones you''ve seen?

Also, what does the stone measure?

 

[NewDiamondMan]

Hi - thanks for the responses Rod and Patty. I guess I am just being paranoid that Im not getting a quality stone, or I paid too much for the diamond. I also just want to make sure I am getting a high quality stone for my girl

Anyway, the measurements are 6.74 x 6.80 x 4.22 mm.

I did see the stone before buying it - but in just being honest, I saw tons of stones and they all looked great! I have had a lot of people say, just trust your eyes - and while that makes sense to me, and I try to, all the diamonds I saw looked clear, shiny, and brilliant...so it was really tough for me to compare. After going to several stores, and looking at different diamonds, in different lights,...for someone who knows little about it, it was tough forme to distinguish all the diamonds I was looking at. I never realized that certain diamonds that were in the "ideal" depth and table range, still might not be brilliant if the other angles were off (which again, I wont know). I never saw them in daylight, only store light...and every store was different.

Im already past the return date (and to be honest, Im not sure I actually want to return it, I just want to confirm that I Think I got a quality stone) - give or take a little.

As far as what I paid, I think I paid 7250 (or 7650) ...I cant recall which, but it was in that price range. Based on looking online, I thought that was somewhat comparable in price...but maybe not? I went to one place which I think marked up their stones significantly because it seemed that a similar diamond was so much more (it wasnt Tiffany''s, but a similar kind of place).

Anyway, just fyi - Im having it set in a three stone setting - in somewhat of a semi-custom setting, just so its somewhat of a traditional bostonian, but with something a little different just so she wont have something everyone else has.

BTW, I realized I left out the color - G color, VS2 clarity, 1.18 ct, polish symm ex/ex., 62.3% depth, 55% table.

 

[Rod]

Believe me, I know how difficult this buying a diamond business is or can be. My purchase was further complicated by the fact I wanted to trade two rings to a jeweler who had not sold them to me to begin with, but it all worked out quite nicely.

The stone you purchased sounds like a truly wonderful stone. While you might have been able to save a few dollars on-line, it appears you're working with a jeweler you trust and they are setting the stone for you in what sounds like a fantastic setting.

Bottom line is, once it's set, that GIA graded stone, which does sound really nice (and BTW.......for a NewDiamondMan, you learned enough to buy a well graded stone with good proportions), so I wouldn't even let buyer's remorse enter your mind and enjoy the rest of the process. Once that stone is set and in the box and you pop the question, I'm betting you're going to have one thrilled lady. And remember this, no one looks at someone's stone and says......."wow, looks like the pavillion on that baby put it in the ideal range" (LOL). All anyone's going to notice is the sparkle of the diamond and the setting it's in and I'm sure both will be quite nice.

Best wishes again and let us know how the rest of the story ends up.

 

[Garysax]

You probably bought a very nice stone and you shouldn't regret it. You got a reputable GIA cert, very good news. And the reason you looked at so many stones that looked almost the same to you was probably because you were looking at a bunch of really nice stones! A lot of the discussion that seems to go on on this board is basically between people trying to decide between stones that are BOTH better than 97% of stones you can buy elsewhere, so definitely keep that in mind. I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.

 

[NewDiamondMan]

Thanks again, those are both good points.

I think I recognize the truth it what people have said on here and what friends have told me - but being a cautious consumer and having very little knowledge and experience, I just need to feel confident about my purchase.

So someone had requested the diamonds measurements - I assume that person meant diameter (north/south and east/west) and height - can the specs. I provided give any insight as to the quality of the cut? Once again, I have a pre-2006 GIA certification which does not provide crown and pavillion numbers. Also, when I purchased, I did not know about the hearts/arrows or idealscopes or any of that stuff which I am just learning now.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think you actually did very well considering you found it before coming here! It probably falls into the Premium cut category and G VS is very nice (and in the range I prefer). It''s a little larger than a carat, the price sounds fair, so I think you should feel fine about it. Honestly, very few people have special scopes to view diamonds! You should have looked at it under 10x magnification at the jewelers, though, just so you know what it looks like up close!

 

[NewDiamondMan]

Thanks for your opinions. Maybe I am the only one, but I found that most jewelers (at least that I went to), had me look through a loop, and microscope of sorts. However, none had me look through an idealscope or any instrument like that. It is either that the jeweler did not have that available, or does not do that unless requested (which I didnt since I was somewhat uninformed about that and had not come across this website yet). I lean towards they just dont have that instrument because I would think if all these jewelers are selling great diamonds then they would want to give customers further proof that they are selling them good stones. I guess alternatively, you could argue, all the diamonds I have seen have been bad, but I just dont buy think thats true and I cant imagine all the stores I have looked in had bad diamonds!

The other interesting thing I noted when I was buying was that very few stores had stones that were larger than 1.25 ct (round), but smaller than 1.50 ct. I found them online, but not many in stores, and those that I found, I thought were not good quality. Is it me or is that a general phenomena at stores?

 

[Rod]

You are aptly descriging the "bane" of the B&M "Maul" stores. Times are changing and the internet is doing more to change them than anything else. But, most "Maul" stores rely on uneducated consumers who don't know anything about the C's of diamond purchasing and buy whatever catches their eyes. Not that relying on one's eyes is a bad thing, but having a bit of knowledge combined with visual sense is better.

There was a subject on this forum recently about whether diamonds are becoming a commodity. There were lot's of replies, some yes, some no. While one can say that because of supply and quality, diamonds can not be commodotized. I think they can and because so many people can research and purchase diamonds from the comfort of their home, the B&M stores will have to catch up with the educated internet saavy purchaser in order to survive. This will commodotize the acquisition of diamonds IMHO.

I really only worked with one quality jeweler (not a chain, but a higher end independent) and they had loads of stones greater than 1 carat in stock. In fact they had some 4 and 6 carat stones, so I suspect that the standard Maul store doesn't see too many people looking for larger sizes, but I could be wrong.

Let' face it, for the person who still buys into "Every Kiss Begins with Kay," they are likely not the most discerning buyer and to offer a scope view of the diamond most likely won't increase the chances of a sale. Plus, from my experience, the knowledge and expertise of the average maul store employee is pretty lacking. I actually saw a salesman in a maul jeweler recently that I bought a pair of shoes from not more than a month ago.

Thanks............

 

[Patty]

NDM, I asked about the measurements of the stone because they can let you know if the stone is cut too deeply or if it is too shallow. Many stones are deep cuts because that way the cutter saves carat weight and gets more money for the stone.

Your is right on the money for its weight. A well cut 1.17 should be about 6.8mms in diameter. So the info that you have given us all indicates that you have a GREAT stone.

You are correct that most jewelry stores do not have idealscopes or hearts and arrow viewers. I don''t think that many people buying from a B&M store know to ask for this kind of detail. They just want a pretty stone at a fair price.

Your stone is a G, VS2 in a great size and it sounds like it''s well cut. Enjoy it!

 

[smappraisal]

Hi,
I think you got a lovely stone and with an Ex/Polish ; Ex/Symmetry rating, I''m sure your cut was fine. Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but to reiterate the words out of the GIA,
any diamond that was graded prior to December 31, 2005 can be resubmitted so that their cut grade can be added to the certification. Per the GIA World News that I receive quarterly,

"Diamonds graded between Aug 1 and Dec.31, 2005: There will not be a reissue fee and diamonds do not need to be returned to the Laboratory, although original reports need to be submitted."
"Diamonds graded between Jan.1 and Jul 31, 2005: There will be a nominal reissue fee, and some diamonds may need to be returned to the Laboratory to obtain updated measurement information."
"Diamonds graded before Jan.1, 2005: A service to update the grading information to include a cut grade for reports will be provided." Hope this is a help to you.
Stephen Marino
Professional Appraiser
Boston and vicinity

 

[NewDiamondMan]

Hi,

I never knew that information. According to my GIA report, it was analyzed on Oct. 11th, 2005. So, does this mean I can just contact them, send back the original report, and they will reissue me a new one with all the new stats?...That would be great...So do you happen to have exact information on who to contact, phone numbers, anything?

Thanks.

 

[NewDiamondMan]

Update:

I did some searching and was able to come across (based on my carat wt. and issue#) all my stats on the GIA website!

6.74 x 6.80 x 4.22 mm
1.18 ct
G color
VS2 clarity
depth 62.3
table 55
med to sl. thick faceted
cutlet none
polish excellent
symmetry excellent
fluorescence excellent
crown angle 35 o
crown height 16%
pavillion angle 40.8 o
pavillion depth 42.5%
star length 55%
lower half 75%
cut excellent

Anyway, I think I am very happy about these numbers and wanted to thank those whose input I received.

So one last question (I think). In reading about hearts and arrows andbrilliance/light return, etc., are the following statements true?
A H&A diamond will not necessarily be the most brilliant diamond.
A most brilliant diamond will not necessarily have hearts and arrows.

Also, if I do not have access to an H&A viewer, is there anyway for me to tell from the complete measurements above if I will have good H&A?

Thanks - everyone''s been so helpful!

 

[MrIndecisive]

Wow, with those angles your stones falls in a really nice place on the HCA! I''d also say that you paid a fair price (especially for a B&M store).

I wouldn''t be too concerned about H&A. I just bought a H&A stone from WF and mounted in a 6 prong setting you really have to look carefully to even discern the arrows. Given the "Excellent" symetry rating your stone is probably pretty close to H&A anyways (and you didn''t have to pay the premium). My guess is that if your stone were being sold on Whiteflash it would fall nicely into the Expert Selection category.

Nice work! Now take a deep breath and enjoy the stone!

 

[smappraisal]

Hello again,

That''s correct. Based on the date of your grade report, barring anything unforeseen, it falls in the category of a reissue at no charge. Just send the original report back and they will issue a new one with a cut grade. I don''t know if they are fielding calls, but you can try: 800/421-7250.

The last address I had for them:

GIA-Gem Trade Lab
Suite 200
5355 Armada Drive
Carlsbad, CA 92008-4699 Best of luck.
Stephen Marino
Professional Appraiser
Boston & vicinity