New Bling ... musical bling

[Rockdiamond]

DO you guys know the story of Peter Frampton's Les Paul Custom? This one- a 1954 Custom. It was given to him when he was in Humble Pie.



The guitar was lost for something like 40 years- and finally recovered- and it has some serious scars- it was in a plane crash.

They made a limited run of 35- and each one has all the same scars. For only $20799 this little baby can be yours. Kenny, would you fix all the dings?
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPB4PFPXASEBGH?adpos=1o1&creative=55280457721&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=COeyiLvr4ckCFVCQHwodvTcJZQ

 

[Rockdiamond]

Speaking of the Jewelry Show.....
The Diamond Studded Guitar was at the entrance of one of the main halls- most people were just walking by without giving it a second glance.
I was there as a buyer this time.
But many years ago, I would go to the show as an exhibitor.
When I was working for Fabrikant, there were about 20 salesmen who worked for the company traveling out to LV.
One of my oldest friends moved out to vegas and became successful singer- now he's a Neil Diamond impersonator- but back then he was just playing Rock and Roll at bars. We'd made plans to get together - he invited me to a gig off the strip to sit in. So I get to the airport with my trusty Strat in a gig bag.
You have no idea how much $hit I took from those A-holes because I was carrying a guitar. It was such a dog eat dog atmosphere. Diamond salesman can be such morons. "Look at Friedlander- he can't sell enough to pay the rent so he's got to play for his means..hahaha"
When I got up on stage with my buddy, I knew I'd made the right choice.

 

[kenny]

The essence of image over substance.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The essence of image over substance.

What are you referring to?
The Frampton Les Paul?

 

[kenny]

The essence of image over substance.

What are you referring to?
The Frampton Les Paul?

Yes.
What you wrote about it ... "They made a limited run of 35- and each one has all the same scars. For only $20799 this little baby can be yours."

The fame and idol worship.
The price ... Gibson's greed.

What a crock!
I love a fine guitar, but this is BS and money grubbing ... for what?
Image over substance.

 

[jordyonbass]

The essence of image over substance.

What are you referring to?
The Frampton Les Paul?

Yes.
What you wrote about it ... "They made a limited run of 35- and each one has all the same scars. For only $20799 this little baby can be yours."

The fame and idol worship.
The price ... Gibson's greed.

What a crock!
I love a fine guitar, but this is BS and money grubbing ... for what?
Image over substance.

Yeah that's a bit silly charging that kind of price for the exclusivity, especially when there isn't any difference between it and an equivalent base model that wouldn't even be worth half of that. It's really only obsessed fans with more bucks than brains who'd buy that guitar.

I like when guys do their own signature model and make it available to players for an attainable price; one of my favourite electric guitars in that style is the Jackson Dominion Pro, the signature guitar for Mark Morton from Lamb of God. He's a groove/speed metal player who encompasses a lot of bluesy harmonies and solos into his music writing and the guitar was setup to his exact requirements. A friend of mine has one and records a lot of his stuff with it, it sounds great and at around $1000 USD it's great value.

I'd buy the Ibanez K5 bass if it didn't have the K5 written on the neck. One simply does not buy Fieldy's signature bass and not have people in the bass community make fun of them

 

[kenny]

The essence of image over substance.

What are you referring to?
The Frampton Les Paul?

Yes.
What you wrote about it ... "They made a limited run of 35- and each one has all the same scars. For only $20799 this little baby can be yours."

The fame and idol worship.
The price ... Gibson's greed.

What a crock!
I love a fine guitar, but this is BS and money grubbing ... for what?
Image over substance.

Yeah that's a bit silly charging that kind of price for the exclusivity, especially when there isn't any difference between it and an equivalent base model that wouldn't even be worth half of that. It's really only obsessed fans with more bucks than brains who'd buy that guitar.

I like when guys do their own signature model and make it available to players for an attainable price; one of my favourite electric guitars in that style is the Jackson Dominion Pro, the signature guitar for Mark Morton from Lamb of God. He's a groove/speed metal player who encompasses a lot of bluesy harmonies and solos into his music writing and the guitar was setup to his exact requirements. A friend of mine has one and records a lot of his stuff with it, it sounds great and at around $1000 USD it's great value.

I'd buy the Ibanez K5 bass if it didn't have the K5 written on the neck. One simply does not buy Fieldy's signature bass and not have people in the bass community make fun of them

+1.

My 335 was a 'signature' model ... Warren Haynes.
Not only was I not an idol worshiper, I had to look up who he was.
But is was significantly physically different from regular production line 335s, and priced less than 10% above them.
All of the differences were structural and tone and feel related; none were to copy authentic boogers and drool from Warren Haynes.
Not only do I feel not ripped off, I feel like I got a killer value.

My 2015 Les Paul Studio was one of the cheapest production line models at $1,229.
Still it sounds and plays beautifully.
I even got lucky as mine a maple top that is nicely figured. (I wouldn't have paid one nickel for that cosmetic thing though.)
So, at $20,799 Frampton himself, not Gibson, must have been the money grubber.

 

[jordyonbass]

I'd say there is probably some kind of contractual agreement there between Gibson and Frampton where he gets a royalty on the sale of each of the 35 guitars. I couldn't imagine he gets the difference between market price for an equivalent isntrument and the full price of the limited run, Gibson would definitely be pocketing some extra coin on that one.

On a side note, I've been getting sick of my job lately as it's been getting pretty frustrating for me so I have been thinking about getting back into a cover band in order to make some money on the side and not have to work 5 days a week at my day job. Realistically I can probably expect about $200-250 per gig on the local pub and bar circuit but that amount jumps up to about $500 for weddings and other gigs where the band is approached privately and not booked. If I could sing and play acoustic I could do soloist work and bring in around $400 per gig, but unfortunately I am a bassist that does back up screams and death growls with a bit of auto-tune mixed in there
I'm looking at possibly getting a new bass to go along with the Hartke head unit I have just gotten recently for doing cover work, I'm probably going to sell my Epiphone Embassy to help fund the new bass so I will need a 5 string. The only problem is I have no idea what I want to buy. I'd love another Warwick but they are so expensive that it hurts

 

[kenny]

Get an acoustic guitar and gig.
I wouldn't worry too much about the quality of your voice.
These days lots of singers can't 'sing'.
Even Bob Dylan got rich.

I'm not saying don't work on your voice; maybe take a few lessons to learn about breath support and focusing your voice.

Practice recording your voice.
Most of the sound we hear when we hear our voices arrives via our eustatian tubes which go from the throat to the middle ear.
When we first hear a recording of our voice we are surprised because the microphone (and the ears of others) is not in our throat.
We must learn to make our voices sound good out in space, not in our throats.

Even if you don't have the greatest voice singing today is more about 'carrying' the song than the tone of your voice.
But at least singing on pitch is always nice.

Maybe Haynes made as much money as Frampton did off his signature run since Gibby made 500 of my 335s not just 35.

 

[jordyonbass]

If I really want to do it I would probably have go to a vocal coach and see if I have any hope of producing an audibly-palatable note. My biggest concern would be that my younger years of smoking and drinking plus years of screaming back-up vocals (which have probably been done incorrectly) have caused irrepairable damage to my vocal chords. Whenever I get a cold I lose my voice for 2 weeks after clears up so I think there may possibly be an issue.
Oh and then I have to learn a lot of pop music and work out some backing tracks, oh and work out how to use the equipment too....this is getting real tricky now

But all of that's if I REALLY want to do it, while I mess around on guitar occasionally I'm a bassist and that's where my heart lies.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Interesting discussion.
You could easily say that Peter Frampton has earned the accolades- which do come with financial rewards.
In fact , I am saying that. Having said that I've been a Frampton fan since Humble Pie.
But we don't even know how much he gets for franchising his name.

In terms of a given guitar having value for esoteric reasons....also interesting discussion.
Which can easily be related to diamonds.
A given IF is virtually identical to a given VS2, yet the IF is worth a more.
I buy SI2's ( eye clean) for my wife, but I totally get why people want to buy IF's because that's how I look at guitars.
For example- if Kenny's new 335 had rectangular fret markers, but was identical in every other respect, I would have ZERO lust for it.


Over the years I've purchased many Squires, Yamaha's and other less costly brands.
I have a Japanese no name Strat one time that played and sounded over the moon.
It was a couple of hundred bucks.
The bass I have in my studio is a Yamaha BB300- it's a knockoff of a P Bass. But the thing has amazing tone.
Still has the original strings I got it with in 1992. I don't know if they were factory strings, but they've really aged beautifully.

If we're speaking of actual playing in a practical sense, it's a different discussion than collecting. It's quite possible that in the hands of Warren Haynes, you might actually like the tone of your guitar better than an original 1961 Kenny. It most likely will play better and stay in tune better than a true vintage.
But the vintage has a soul not yet established on a new guitar. I know, that's ridiculous, but I can feel it. Just like the buyer of an IF can

 

[Rockdiamond]

If I really want to do it I would probably have go to a vocal coach and see if I have any hope of producing an audibly-palatable note. My biggest concern would be that my younger years of smoking and drinking plus years of screaming back-up vocals (which have probably been done incorrectly) have caused irrepairable damage to my vocal chords. Whenever I get a cold I lose my voice for 2 weeks after clears up so I think there may possibly be an issue.
Oh and then I have to learn a lot of pop music and work out some backing tracks, oh and work out how to use the equipment too....this is getting real tricky now

But all of that's if I REALLY want to do it, while I mess around on guitar occasionally I'm a bassist and that's where my heart lies.

Just do it Jordy- at the worst case you'll expand your musical palette which might bring other new gigs......

 

[kenny]

I'm a player, not a collector.

I'm certainly not putting people down who appreciate things I don't and buy 1950s guitars for the big bucks.
To each their own.

Clearly these guitars and vintage amps are worth tens of thousands or more, since that's what the market will bear.
I even heard of an owner who refused to change or even clean out the pots (the volume and tone controls) of his vintage guitar.
They make horrendous loud scratching noise when you turn them, but he just wants to keep everything original.
I've seen ads that boast the guitar comes with a set of original 1950s Gibson guitar strings in the case.

I've been known to collect some nutty things.

 

[kenny]

If I really want to do it I would probably have go to a vocal coach and see if I have any hope of producing an audibly-palatable note. My biggest concern would be that my younger years of smoking and drinking plus years of screaming back-up vocals (which have probably been done incorrectly) have caused irrepairable damage to my vocal chords. Whenever I get a cold I lose my voice for 2 weeks after clears up so I think there may possibly be an issue.
Oh and then I have to learn a lot of pop music and work out some backing tracks, oh and work out how to use the equipment too....this is getting real tricky now

But all of that's if I REALLY want to do it, while I mess around on guitar occasionally I'm a bassist and that's where my heart lies.

Soulful raspy voices are the signatures of artists like Janis Joplin, Kim Carnes, Rod Stewart, Leonard Cohen, Joe Cocker, Stevie Nicks, and the mature Joni Mitchell to name a few.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Here's one I'm sorry I let slip through my fingers.

Music Man EVH model
I particularly loved it because it was a "Hardtail"- most of them have the Floyd Rose Tremolo. I was never a fan of the whammy bar- especially because of what they do at the nut end of the neck.
Too bad the pc is B&W_ the color was a gorgeous honey. The finish on the neck was practically non existent. It may have been "naked"
It was such a comfortable axe to play.
No tone knob so you had to use the bridge pickup and picking technique to really darken the tone.
The treble sounds were mind blowing.

I had it back in the early '90's- I sold it for something else...maybe a Parker Fly
Apropos to the discussion, it was a model Eddie Van Halen designed with Music Man.
Subsequently he had a disagreement or some sort of falling out with Music Man and then switched to Peavey, who came out with the 'Wolfgang" which was a knockoff of the MM guitar

Music Man, of course, is the company Leo Fender created after he sold his company to CBS is 1965+-

 

[jordyonbass]

If I really want to do it I would probably have go to a vocal coach and see if I have any hope of producing an audibly-palatable note. My biggest concern would be that my younger years of smoking and drinking plus years of screaming back-up vocals (which have probably been done incorrectly) have caused irrepairable damage to my vocal chords. Whenever I get a cold I lose my voice for 2 weeks after clears up so I think there may possibly be an issue.
Oh and then I have to learn a lot of pop music and work out some backing tracks, oh and work out how to use the equipment too....this is getting real tricky now

But all of that's if I REALLY want to do it, while I mess around on guitar occasionally I'm a bassist and that's where my heart lies.

Just do it Jordy- at the worst case you'll expand your musical palette which might bring other new gigs......

I've done cover bands and acoustic duo/trio stuff but I've just needed my stack or my DI box for that, it's the easiest thing for me to get into at this point as I'm all set as far as equipment to play bass in those kinds of ensembles and never have to worry about setting up the PA, I'd have to buy a whole lot of new equipment on top if I go solo.

My dream right now is to cut gems during the week and play cover bands on weekends. I'd be living pretty happily if I could do both to get by

 

[jordyonbass]

If I really want to do it I would probably have go to a vocal coach and see if I have any hope of producing an audibly-palatable note. My biggest concern would be that my younger years of smoking and drinking plus years of screaming back-up vocals (which have probably been done incorrectly) have caused irrepairable damage to my vocal chords. Whenever I get a cold I lose my voice for 2 weeks after clears up so I think there may possibly be an issue.
Oh and then I have to learn a lot of pop music and work out some backing tracks, oh and work out how to use the equipment too....this is getting real tricky now

But all of that's if I REALLY want to do it, while I mess around on guitar occasionally I'm a bassist and that's where my heart lies.

Soulful raspy voices are the signatures of artists like Janis Joplin, Kim Carnes, Rod Stewart, Leonard Cohen, Joe Cocker, Stevie Nicks, and the mature Joni Mitchell to name a few.

I'd have to learn how to do that with my diaphragm as it would probably destroy my throat quickly, with the guttural vocals it's usually an accent of a word or syllable. For example from my old band I would accent the following lyrics in brackets:
(I) was never meant to be, your life, your (death), your mortality
(Pull) myself out from underneath, from the constant source of (instability).
I'd sound like a 3 pack a day smoker after a gig from that alone so no doubt my vocal chords have some issues

 

[jordyonbass]

Here's one I'm sorry I let slip through my fingers.

Music Man EVH model
I particularly loved it because it was a "Hardtail"- most of them have the Floyd Rose Tremolo. I was never a fan of the whammy bar- especially because of what they do at the nut end of the neck.
Too bad the pc is B&W_ the color was a gorgeous honey. The finish on the neck was practically non existent. It may have been "naked"
It was such a comfortable axe to play.
No tone knob so you had to use the bridge pickup and picking technique to really darken the tone.
The treble sounds were mind blowing.

I had it back in the early '90's- I sold it for something else...maybe a Parker Fly
Apropos to the discussion, it was a model Eddie Van Halen designed with Music Man.
Subsequently he had a disagreement or some sort of falling out with Music Man and then switched to Peavey, who came out with the 'Wolfgang" which was a knockoff of the MM guitar

Music Man, of course, is the company Leo Fender created after he sold his company to CBS is 1965+-

I have thought about a Musicman for my next bass, they're an instrument that you just don't hear many people talk about. I'd be keen to see what they have in a 5'er

 

[Rockdiamond]

They're some sweet, versitile basses Jordy.
I Have always loved Fender Basses- but MM basses are just better. Passive - Active electronics- really nice necks

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Ernie-Ball-Music-Man/Classic-Stingray-5-Electric-Bass-Guitar.gc#productDetail

 

[jordyonbass]

Had a look at sales for MM basses here in Australia, their pricing is up there with Warwick. As much as I'd love to spend that kind of money it just isn't affordable or viable for me right now as I don't do that much recording. I also make a point of not taking expensive equipment after the SVT avalanche, even though the pub rock cover scene is not as crazy as the hardcore scene I still don't want to tempt fate. Or thieves while I'm at it.

I was thinking about an Ibanez Soundgear for a little while, the K5 is based on it but I've only played a K5 and never played a Soundgear. It's more within my budget and from what I can see it's got a pretty unique active/passive tonal control switching with passive pickups.

 

[kenny]

Couple questions.

Is Music Man the same as Ernie Ball Music Man?

Whassup with Guitar Center?
Are they going under?
They seem so huge and successful.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Without googling...
I'd say Ernie Ball purchased Music Man at some point.

Also without Googling- I have not heard GC was in trouble, but it's not surprising in the least- but it is terribly sad.
Here's the synopsis I see:
Places where artists love to be- cities mainly- are simply too expensive in terms of rent for "regular" music stores.
I don;t know how many of you guys have been to 48th street in NYC- it was a haven for musicians.
You could see the likes of Clapton, Beck, Benson, King ( all three), any day on the block.
There were at least 6 different guitar stores in the '70's.
The two main places were always Sam Ash and Mannys

Through the '90's Sam Ash gobbled up the smaller shops till all you had was SA and Mannys
Which was still pretty cool- both stores had a real heritage.
Then SA grew much larger and bought Mannys
SO now you had Sam Ash with at least 5 different storefronts on 48th street.
Oh, and Rudy's- the one last bastion of independent music stores on the block
The bloom was clearly off the bush, but then they cut the whole f-cking bush down when Sam Ash moved to 34th street one night.
I park my car on that block and one morning I came in and saw empty windows with signs announcing the move.
Rudys actually lasted another 6 months after that- now it's a deli.

Although there's still a few holdouts , we really have only two full service music stores in NYC_ and they are exactly the same as the ones in NJ, Ohio or California

No surprise if GC ( and SA) are facing issues as they need huge square footage to show the gear, and artists are not loving NYC as much as they had for precisely the reasons that made all the stores on 48th st close..
Looks like guitars will be sold almost exclusively online sooner rather than later...kinda like diamonds..

 

[kenny]

I've read/googled nothing but I suspect certain big online sellers have a massive advantage because they do not have the cost of maintaining a zillion locations with rent/insurance/employees/inventory.

I'm aware of Sweetwater, Musiciansfriend, ZZsounds, and Musiciansupply and something-or-other-123.

Plus the Internet has changed the whole pricing system.

Back in my day there was a retail/list/msrp price printed on the cardboard tag hanging on a guitar in the local music store.

Then you may negotiate down from there whatever you could.

Today there is a TOTALLY BS list price that nobody pays.
Then there is a price (maybe 20% lower) that every seller advertises.
Then you may or may not get away with negotiating below that.

RD, what is your understanding of yesterday's and todays pricing paradigm?

BTW, I have a friend who is attached to an entity that buys zillions of bucks at GC, so he gets X over cost, not X below list.
I think he ends up paying around half of the advertised price for stuff.
That would mean GC's cost is below that.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Back in 1975 I used to work at one of the stores on 48th St- it was called Graysons. They were the first place to carry Peavey and Traynor amps.
Back then a new Strat had a dealer cost of about $175 and they sold it for $250 iirc

I think that the new system of mass marketers brings new price structures for the sellers.
No way GC is paying the same that Joe's Main St Music is paying.
But I do not believe margins are that great.

 

[jordyonbass]

I thought this would be the most ideal thread to drop this post in as most people here probably wouldn't have heard of him, let alone would actually care.

Rock n Roll god Lemmy Kilmeister of Motorhead died today, aged 70. Notorious for being a hard-living rocker, many are shocked but not overly-surprised that he passed away today of an 'extremely aggressive cancer' that he was diagnosed with only 48 hours prior.

I gave up drinking 5 years ago but I'll be having a Jack Daniels for him today, the first rock show I ever went to was Motley Crue being supported by Motorhead nearly ten years ago to the day. It immersed a 17 year old Jordy in what the rock world is actually like and helped carve my love of live music to this day.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/motorhead-frontman-lemmy-dead-at-age-70/news-story/33b36467fd10c62f38902942c7cf17f1

 

[kenny]

RIP.

 

[Rockdiamond]

A great loss Jordy.....
Silver lining is reopening this thread.

Kenny- I saw this video today and thought of you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXj9DcjjWZE
There's a part where he's describing his voice as "bad"...right

 

[kenny]

A great loss Jordy.....
Silver lining is reopening this thread.

Kenny- I saw this video today and thought of you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXj9DcjjWZE
There's a part where he's describing his voice as "bad"...right

Thanks. I enjoyed that.
Emulating James Taylor's music has always been my holy grail.

In that video JT also mentioned his bass player has a challenge since JT's guitar style already includes bass lines.

JT's albums are not solo, there are plenty of other instruments and vocals, but his songs hold up very well on one guitar and one voice.
JT's approach to playing guitar is very much a full musical package, rhythmically, harmonically.
There is plenty of shimmer up high and clear substantial pulsating lows.

Playing JT correctly is very difficult, but people tell me they have never heard a better job of nailing his guitar playing style.

 

[Rockdiamond]

A great loss Jordy.....
Silver lining is reopening this thread.

Kenny- I saw this video today and thought of you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXj9DcjjWZE
There's a part where he's describing his voice as "bad"...right

Thanks. I enjoyed that.
Emulating James Taylor's music has always been my holy grail.

In that video JT also mentioned his bass player has a challenge since JT's guitar style already includes bass lines.

JT's albums are not solo, there are plenty of other instruments and vocals, but his songs hold up very well on one guitar and one voice.
JT's approach to playing guitar is very much a full musical package, rhythmically, harmonically.
There is plenty of shimmer up high and clear substantial pulsating lows.

Playing JT correctly is very difficult, but people tell me they have never heard a better job of nailing his guitar playing style.

You're very welcome Kenny!
To repeat- this thread has been some of the best times I've had on PS in a long time- thank you again.
So, I'm a bit confused by the bolded statement- do you mean people say YOU do a great job of nailing JT guitar lines?
Waiting for a youtube

ETA- I came across this young lady today.....talk about some funky slapping of the bass....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Ukq6GrQcA

 

[kenny]

So, I'm a bit confused by the bolded statement- do you mean people say YOU do a great job of nailing JT guitar lines?

Yes.