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Need Your Help!!! (Blue Nile vs. Phoenix B&M)

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tdurden04

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2007
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So this is bizarre.

I found a diamond I liked at a B&M place that would part with it for $13,200. This was slightly above "Rappaport" price, and it was ideal in all respects for its color and clarity. Then, I found the SAME DIAMOND on Blue Nile for $12,950!!

Since I''d much rather deal with an in-person jeweler, and seeing how their price was quite fair, do you think I could bargain them down? By how much?? I don''t want to insult them, and I also know they''d say "no" to a deal that cuts too deep into their margins.

Also, what do you think Blue Nile''s margin is for selling other peoples'' diamonds?

Cheers,
T
 
Just to make it clear what is happening here, a third party owns the stone, and then jewelers can offer it for sale to their own customers, but they do not own it themselves. So BOTH parties are "selling someone elses stone". BN isn''t selling your B&M''s stone.

You might have some bargaining power with the local jeweler, however, you ALSO will pay tax with the local guy and you won''t with Bluenile (unless you live in the state where they are based). So depending on what the sales tax is in AZ, the difference might be greater. But it does sound like the B&M''s price is fair considering they have more overhead and you''ll get more personal service with them.

But it''s always worth asking if they''ll come down on the price!
 
Well, here''s the thing... it''s less of a "B&M" and more of a wholesaler, who sells diamonds to commercial B&Ms direct from S. Africa. I stumbled upon it while walking through downtown Phoenix -- It''s just a storefront with a # to call for appointments. No walk-ins. Very very hush-hush.

This is why I think they can afford to come WAY down on the price for me.
 
Date: 7/14/2007 2:37:25 PM
Author:tdurden04
So this is bizarre.

I found a diamond I liked at a B&M place that would part with it for $13,200. This was slightly above ''Rappaport'' price, and it was ideal in all respects for its color and clarity. Then, I found the SAME DIAMOND on Blue Nile for $12,950!!

Since I''d much rather deal with an in-person jeweler, and seeing how their price was quite fair, do you think I could bargain them down? By how much?? I don''t want to insult them, and I also know they''d say ''no'' to a deal that cuts too deep into their margins.

Also, what do you think Blue Nile''s margin is for selling other peoples'' diamonds?

Cheers,
T
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actually no I wouldn''t bargain them down - that $250 is for having a stone live and in person with all the benefits of a local jeweler who will guarantee his work. I bought my stone on BN but had I had the option of being able to get it elsewhere I would have.

That said, you can try, but..... what are you getting from the local guy that bn doesn''t offer? Like tradeups?
 
Yes, trade-ups for 5 years. And it''s not so much a jeweller as a simple business office with a massive, MASSIVE SAFE.

With Arizona state tax, and with a ~2.5% surcharge for using a credit card, I may try to bargain him down to $12,300. I mean, if he''s as plugged in as he says he is, then that''s what he was going to sell it to BN for, right?? Probably even less!
 
Date: 7/14/2007 3:08:14 PM
Author: tdurden04
Yes, trade-ups for 5 years. And it''s not so much a jeweller as a simple business office with a massive, MASSIVE SAFE.


With Arizona state tax, and with a ~2.5% surcharge for using a credit card, I may try to bargain him down to $12,300. I mean, if he''s as plugged in as he says he is, then that''s what he was going to sell it to BN for, right?? Probably even less!
Click to expand...

Again, it is extremely doubtful that HE is selling the stone to Bluenile.

There are many laws that prevent REAL wholesalers from selling to the public, including many issues about sales tax. So if he is telling you that he is a wholesaler, but is still willing to sell to you AND charge you sales tax, there is something majorly shady going on here.

If he is a retailer, than it isn''t his stone that he is selling, it''s a 3rd party stone.

And if he''s a wholesaler he isn''t allowed to charge you salestax NOR is he allowed to sell retail.

A wholesaler only sells to retailers for resale. Period.
 
Well first, lets establish WHY you believe the he is the one selling the stone to Blue Nile? is it just because both stores offer the same diamond, or is it because the guy actually told you that he is?
 
His business plan is like this (as he tells me):

He flies diamonds in from South Africa for the SW and SoCal diamond market. 85% of his business is selling the diamonds to "retailers." Technically, I guess he is a retailer, too, because that means the other 15% of his revenues are with individuals.

This definitely seems legit.
 
He told me he owned it and just received it from overseas. He''d sell it to a retailer. Or me.
 
Honestly, nothing about this seems legit to me.

From what I understand, he is breaking a lot of laws by claiming to be both a wholesaler and a retailer. I could be completely misunderstanding how that works, but unless these are two completely different business ventures, and say his brother owns one and he owns the other, it just seems really odd to me.

But this is your purchase, not mine, so I''ll be quiet now!
 
No, thank you for your input.

I''m not quite sure of what to make of it myself.

There were only three people in the office (two men, one woman) -- the woman let me in and was very very interested in how I "found" the place.

They certainly don''t do a lot of "consumer" business, so I guess the only alternative is: they''re the "middleman," with options to sell privately or to sell to commercial establishments at quasi-wholesale prices.
 
Well note that it isn't exactly quasi wholesale prices if it is over the price that BN is charging for it. Also, I think that wholesale businesses can make ventures into retail, I was just speaking with my boss' husband who used to work in a jewelry store that had been a wholesale business that took over some retail practices, but i don't know all the details, I will talk about it the next time I am over for dinner. However, offering it for sale at their store and having it listed in a national database--That sounds pretty uncertain. I would send an email to one of the manager's at blue nile and see what they have to say, along with seeking out other information. Perhaps the same stone is offered by White flash and James Allen, then you could email them with this same question as well and you should get some reliable information once all of the input comes back?

That being said, when they were so interested in how you found the place...did they ask you if you were a cop
9.gif
?
 
This is getting even weirder.

There are "mirror" sites (exact copies) of its website, except with different names and with different "About Us" sections. These shopfront/websites are supposedly in Denver, San Fran, LA, and Houston.
 
Date: 7/14/2007 4:21:26 PM
Author: tdurden04
This is getting even weirder.


There are ''mirror'' sites (exact copies) of its website, except with different names and with different ''About Us'' sections. These shopfront/websites are supposedly in Denver, San Fran, LA, and Houston.
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I can''t keep my mouth shut, RUN RUN RUN. Please. Buy it from BN (or Whiteflash or GOG or James Allen) and be sure you are really getting what you''re paying for.
 
can we see some of the websites? perhaps someone else knows more information about them and can approve them?

But if it is available for a very similar price from wf or gog or ja and you can get more information on it, no reason not to do that
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I''d rather not, because I am starting to think I''ve gone too far into the non-transparency of the diamond trade.

It''s looking more and more like the shopfront is a subsidiary of a very large DTC sightholder that runs the whole length of diamond commerce.

Thanks for your help with all this. I''m going to relegate myself to being content with "not knowing."

And don''t worry, neatfreak, it''s gotten so bizarre that I''m going to look elsewhere.
 
Date: 7/14/2007 4:39:18 PM
Author: tdurden04
I''d rather not, because I am starting to think I''ve gone too far into the non-transparency of the diamond trade.


It''s looking more and more like the shopfront is a subsidiary of a very large DTC sightholder that runs the whole length of diamond commerce.


Thanks for your help with all this. I''m going to relegate myself to being content with ''not knowing.''


And don''t worry, neatfreak, it''s gotten so bizarre that I''m going to look elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Excellent. Places to check that are GREAT internet vendors but not as big as bluenile (and with lifetime tradeup policies AND better customer service) are Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, Engagement Rings Direct, and James Allen to name a few.

All of these vendors will also provide you with help hand selecting a stone for you as well as provide pictures and other images to assure that you are getting a really well cut stone.

Best of luck!
 
Date: 7/14/2007 4:39:18 PM
Author: tdurden04

It''s looking more and more like the shopfront is a subsidiary of a very large DTC sightholder that runs the whole length of diamond commerce.
Click to expand...


I don''t know man, if you have found somebody that runs the whole length of diamond commerce--though I think it doesn''t mean what I think it means (modified shout out for princess bride) then you should def share. I would like to see some weird stuff anyway. but good luck, let us know what you do find that looks reliable.
 
Has anyone heard of anyone else getting a Cease & Desist letter from posting on this website?
 
Date: 7/14/2007 6:42:28 PM
Author: tdurden04
Has anyone heard of anyone else getting a Cease & Desist letter from posting on this website?
Click to expand...


In the postal mail or email? over your comments about that unnamed unspecified business and from the buisness?
 
There is no LAW preventing a wholesaler (but it is frequently frowned upon by many retailers for obvious reasons) from selling directly to the public (they must collect local/state taxes in that case), and many do and more will in the future. Some don''t want their wholesale customers to know that they sell direct because they might lose them, but others don''t care...times are a changin'' in the biz...after all De Beers itself is also now selling direct to the public and they own/mine the rough in many cases. It''s all about cutting out the middle man.

Sounds like you have come across what might be a DTC siteholder with offices in several cities where they move goods at both the wholesale and retail levels...nothing suspicious about that. It''s a tough biz, and folks are looking to move goods the quickest way they can.

It''s bad if a wholesaler sells to his wholesale clients at the same level he does his privates, but not so bad if he sells higher to his privates than at wholesale. Some don''t care others care deeply. Each biz at each level can decide with whom they will and will not deal with.
 
if you decide to go elsewhere...I would recommend Whiteflash...they are AMAZING and will work hard to find you exactly what you want...Good luck...but as "neatfreak" said, I would RUN RUN RUN from the other option...
 
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