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Need the expertise of Appraisers and/or Insurance experts!!

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Buster_DL

Rough_Rock
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May 17, 2004
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Ok, I hate to even admit this to anyone, but I need some advice. Last May I bought a Superbcert diamond for my wife''s engagement ring and had it set in the Vatche X prong. Because I''m a horrible procrastinator, I didn''t get the appraisal done right away like I was told to do. Eventually I forgot about it until before we got married and I realized that I didn''t have insurance on her engagement and wedding rings. So FINALLY last month I took them both in to get an appraisal done before I could get insurance on them.


Well, just my luck that sometime from the point we received the diamond and the time we got the appraisal (almost a full year), a ''minute'' chip appeared on the girdle and is pointed out in the appraisal. I KNOW it wasn''t there when it was shipped from Superbcert, so I''m guessing it happened at some point later on in the course of every day wear. Anyways, the insurance company said they can''t insure a diamond with an imperfection such as a chip. I spoke with the appraiser and he assured me it was such a minor chip that the integrity of the diamond hadn''t been compromised, and that it is something that would be fine if we had it polished out or not (the loss would be insignificant he said).


My question is this: Are there any insurance agencies that would still insure this even with a ''minute'' chip in the girdle? What are my options?


I''m not too keen on having anyone polish out the chip to be honest, and if Vatche doesn''t do the ring resetting or dismounting then my warranty is void. I live no where near NY and don''t really want to ship it out there just to have a minor procedure (according to the appraiser) done. Also, my wife does not want to part with her ring for that long either. Any one have any ideas? I''d love to have the appraiser send me a new appraisal w/out the note about the chip, but that sounds like fraud to me and something most wouldn''t care to be a part of!


BTW, I''m insuring through State Farm as they have every other policy of mine too. Not sure if that matters (maybe others are more lenient?) Any advice or help you could offer would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!

Buster
 
I have my grandmother''s engagement ring insured through Chubb. I had it appraised when my mom gave it to me three years ago. The appraiser found (and noted) a small chip--not surprising in a ring Grandma wore every day for over 60 years. Chubb didn''t seem to mind; they went ahead and insured it. (The agent told me I didn''t even need an appraisal, a receipt would do, but since nobody sold me the ring I didn''t have one of those ;) )
 
When I got my original w-set insured, all that was required was the receipt showing how much I paid for it. There was nothing to even say anything about the center stone other than it was a .33 F/VS1 Marquise. When we got my upgrade, an appraisal was provided, so I just used that.
 
Who''s your insurance company? People do this all the time. Minor chips and abbrasions are clarity setting characteristics that presumably your appraiser took into consideration when she/he graded the stone. If they don''t represent a durability risk then the company should have no problem. You should not feel pressure to recut your stone if you are happy with it the way it is.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
Agreed. An addendum to your appraisal stating that in the appraiser''s opinion the chip poses no threat to the structural integrity of the stone should suffice for the insurance company. I''ve done that several times with no problem.
 
well the appraiser''s have spoken so not much else I can add but my own experience. I have my ring insured by AllState. I just had it re-appraised by Rich and he found 2 chips which lowered the clarity and the stones value. I was paying for more coverage than I needed. I sent them the new appraisal they made the adjustments to my policy and lowered my premiums b/c of the lower coverage amount. The chips are noted in the appraisal and are reflected in the price. i don''t see why you insurance wouldn''t cover what you''ve got. maybe there is a difference b/c I already had my stone insured and the damage occured later, who knows. I didn''t polish out my chips either, they aren''t visible with naked eye.
 
Thanks Everyone, this helps a ton. I asked about getting a note attached to the appraiser verifying the chip wasn''t anything to worry about, but my agent stated that wouldn''t suffice. I may just opt for Chubb or another agency who doesn''t require this. Thanks!

Buster
 
Date: 6/8/2005 9:17:30 PM
Author: mrssalvo
well the appraiser''s have spoken so not much else I can add but my own experience. I have my ring insured by AllState. I just had it re-appraised by Rich and he found 2 chips which lowered the clarity and the stones value. I was paying for more coverage than I needed. I sent them the new appraisal they made the adjustments to my policy and lowered my premiums b/c of the lower coverage amount. The chips are noted in the appraisal and are reflected in the price. i don''t see why you insurance wouldn''t cover what you''ve got. maybe there is a difference b/c I already had my stone insured and the damage occured later, who knows. I didn''t polish out my chips either, they aren''t visible with naked eye.

Mr. Salvo

Read your policy carefully. If the method of replacing the item is the way they will settle a claim.... how is the company going to replace a stone that has two chips?

The fact that is has two chips certainly should be noted, but if the assigment calls for the replacement of the item, it can raise quite a few questions.

Allstate has several policies products that vary. I would suggest you get their claims department to answer this in advance, so you know how they would settle a loss claim on your policy.

The monetary amount stated on this appraisal really isn''t a value, if replacement - it a cost to replace. If it isn''t enough coverage - then you''ll potentially be reaching in your pocket to make up the difference.

Rockdoc
 
Thanks Roc Doc. I doubled checked my policy which will cover the amount stated to replace the stone. They will cash out or issue a check to the vendor of my choice in that amount for replacement. The amount is adequate in replacing the stone w/out any extra $$ from me, unless I decide to upgrade
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I actually hope I never need it. I have an OEC which isn''t easy t replace, and I love it
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Thanks MrsSalvo

It''s an OEC ! Ah.. that changes things a bit. There are folks who still cut OEC''s. It might be easier to replace than you think. If you need a replacement stone, and it ends up that you find one that is old, chances are it may not be that difficult to find one that has a chip.

You might have an sort of unusual policy in that it provides you with the choice of who should replace the stone. Most policies state that the insurance company will only cash out in an amount equal to what THEIR replacement company will charge them for what they consider to be a like, kind quality replacement.

Rockdoc
 
Date: 6/10/2005 1:14:26 AM
Author: RockDoc

Mr. Salvo

Read your policy carefully. If the method of replacing the item is the way they will settle a claim.... how is the company going to replace a stone that has two chips?

The fact that is has two chips certainly should be noted, but if the assigment calls for the replacement of the item, it can raise quite a few questions.

Allstate has several policies products that vary. I would suggest you get their claims department to answer this in advance, so you know how they would settle a loss claim on your policy.

The monetary amount stated on this appraisal really isn''t a value, if replacement - it a cost to replace. If it isn''t enough coverage - then you''ll potentially be reaching in your pocket to make up the difference.

Rockdoc

Rockdoc,

Rockdoc.
This is more-or-less reasonable. The insurance companies have never really differentiated about WHY a stone received a particular clarity grade as part of their replacement. By way of example: If the original stone was a VS2 and the damage to the girdle now results in an SI2, there has clearly been a loss in value as a result of the damage. If the stone had been insured during this time, this would probably have been a covered loss both in the loss of value of the stone and the reissuance of the lab report to match the new character of the stone. If the policy is bound based on the SI2 description, and it is properly graded and valued for what it is, then it is entirely fair that the company will be obligated to replace or fund the replacement with another SI2. It will be up to the insured to choose which stone will be acceptable to them within that definition and the grade setting attribute may very well be something other than a girdle nick. If the company cashes out the policy, it should be based on this SI2 description.

I absolutely agree that the details of the individual policy are terribly important. They are not all the same. Speaking with the company about the details of how they handle claims for your type of policy is good advice.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 

This is more-or-less reasonable. The insurance companies have never really differentiated about WHY a stone received a particular clarity grade as part of their replacement. By way of example: If the original stone was a VS2 and the damage to the girdle now results in an SI2, there has clearly been a loss in value as a result of the damage. If the stone had been insured during this time, this would probably have been a covered loss both in the loss of value of the stone and the reissuance of the lab report to match the new character of the stone. If the policy is bound based on the SI2 description, and it is properly graded and valued for what it is, then it is entirely fair that the company will be obligated to replace or fund the replacement with another SI2. It will be up to the insured to choose which stone will be acceptable to them within that definition and the grade setting attribute may very well be something other than a girdle nick. If the company cashes out the policy, it should be based on this SI2 description.


I absolutely agree that the details of the individual policy are terribly important. They are not all the same. Speaking with the company about the details of how they handle claims for your type of policy is good advice.



Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

There''s never a crowd when you go that
_________________________________________________________________



I agree with you- totally Neil.

If the damage wasn''t mentioned in the previous appraisal, and the underwrited accept the coverage, one must ASSUME that the damage (chips) were not pre-existing.

It certainly is possible that the original appraisal report was not done correctly, and the appraiser ignored the chip issue. But even with that, if the underwriter accepted coverage as an undamaged stone, and now it is, it appears to me that the insured should have made a claim for the damage, cost of repair, and loss of value, or have gotten a viable replacement based on the details in the former appraisal.

As such Mrs. Salvo had a claim at that time. But I didn''t see the stone, and while I respect Richard''s gemological capabilities, he may know something you and I don''t to have performed the new appraisal selecting the lower clarity grading, and value.

Perhaps we''ll learn more about this.

Rockdoc


 
Date: 6/8/2005 9:17:30 PM
Author: mrssalvo
well the appraiser''s have spoken so not much else I can add but my own experience. I have my ring insured by AllState. I just had it re-appraised by Rich and he found 2 chips which lowered the clarity and the stones value. I was paying for more coverage than I needed. I sent them the new appraisal they made the adjustments to my policy and lowered my premiums b/c of the lower coverage amount. The chips are noted in the appraisal and are reflected in the price. i don''t see why you insurance wouldn''t cover what you''ve got. maybe there is a difference b/c I already had my stone insured and the damage occured later, who knows. I didn''t polish out my chips either, they aren''t visible with naked eye.
If the ring was continuously insured by the same insurance company, and there was a previous appraisal at the time of issuance of the policy, then the new appraisal establishes a damage claim, period. You just have to go through the paperwork and submit a claim based on the two appraisals and the loss in value.
 
Agreed. When I appraised Mrs Salvo's diamond, I just appraised it for what it was, with no prior knowledge of a higher "pre-chip" appraisal.

Mrs Salvo, if you'll fax me a copy of your original appraisal I'll check see if a claim is worth pursuing, and prepare a "damage estimate" to submit to your insurance company if so.
 
Thanks guys
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Rich, I will fax you the info today and see where it takes us.
 
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