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Need some help, Oval Diamond

O

oldtau67

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
11
Hi,
First time poster. Looks like a great community! Any thoughts on the below diamond specs for an oval cut diamond? I am concerned about too strong/dark of a bowtie. Before I get jumped about this, I REALIZE that the best way to know the severity of a bow is it to see it in person; however, this is not an option for this stone.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how bad these specs may relate to a bowtie effect (without seeing the stone)?

Thanks for the help!

Cut: Oval
Carat weight: 1.04
Color: J
Clarity: VVS2
Depth %: 61.0%
Table %: 57%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Thin to Thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Strong
Measurements: 8.09 x 5.59 x 3.41 mm
Length/width ratio: 1.45
 
No. Table and Depth are not enough to judge an oval. Neither is anything found on a certificate. You need pictures. Two ovals with the same basic stats can have very different appearances. Stats are really pretty worthless with ovals.

First, you have to know what faceting pattern you are working with. There are several for ovals. Then you need to know about light return. And also about the bowtie.

Your choices are:
Shop in person.
Shop online at a vendor that provides pictures and an ASET with gemologists on site to examine the stone for a bowtie.

Vendors I would recommend are: BGD, JA, ERD and GOG.
 
Hey Gypsy, thanks for being condescending and telling me what I already know! Like I said; shopping in person IS NOT AN OPTION.
 
oldtau67|1346418639|3260214 said:
Hey Gypsy, thanks for being condescending and telling me what I already know! Like I said; shopping in person IS NOT AN OPTION.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure where she is being condescending? :confused: How is she supposed to know that you already know all the things she told you? She was just trying to help and explain that the info you provided is not enough to make an informed decision. Yes, you stated shopping in person IS NOT AN OPTION, but she also gave you info on what you should have while shopping online.

Good luck with your search.

edited for clarity
 
oldtau67|1346418639|3260214 said:
Hey Gypsy, thanks for being condescending and telling me what I already know! Like I said; shopping in person IS NOT AN OPTION.
Click to expand...


:? um.... chill...????

Gypsy was giving you very informative and detailed advice. If you can contact the above listed vendors, they may be able to able to provide you with actual photos of ovals that would suit your request and budget. They could be able to provide IS and ASET's as well. Ideally, if you can't actually 'meet' the stone in person, photos are the next closest to being there... (sounds like a FTD Florist add!!)

If you can call and speak with those vendors, (BGD, GOG, ERD, JA) and discuss your needs, they will do their best to find something beautiful for you. Come back and post what links/info they send you.
 
I guess I need to elaborate. I do not have those options. Here is my option:
The original stone was purchased from Blue Nile. It has been decided that the recipient would like a larger stone. Blue Nile allows for an upgrade. I have had it narrowed down to a few stones, and currently this one is in the lead. Since I do not have the options listed above, I was looking for an opinion on this stone. I research things to death. What you all have told me, I have read throughout other websites and this website already (probably many of the posts from the same people).

With that being said, please provide me opinions on this stone, not on what you think I should do. Yes, I agree, and Yes, I wish I had those options. I think you are all correct, but unfortunately these options are not available for me and I am stuck with trying to make this work and make a semi-educated decision on what is available to me.

I apologize for my frustration, but I am sick of diamonds and just want this to be over with.

Thank you.
 
Sorry, I can see this is frustrating for you. That is too bad you are restricted and need to work with limited info. Ok.. moving on then!

Can you speak directly with your SA and ask about eye clean/bowties, etc? They should have a GG on site (or who could review from off site if needed) and ask those specific questions - whatever it is you want to know, spell it out with as much explanation as needed, so they completely "get" what it is you are asking about.

I know BN doesn't provide photos of the actual stones - too bad,eh? - but asking for their GG to assess is a fair and legit request. Hope that gives you some further answers.
 
I thought about not posting again here, just because I don't care to have your frustration with something else taken out on me. But decided to cut you a break.

So here are my thoughts.
Look at the GIA certificate for the plot of the faceting. WHICH one of the faceting patterns is it? I am going to link you to a few different ones, and tell you which ones I think are the safest when buying on Blue Nile.

8 main oval faceting diagram (Main refers to number of pavilion facets on the faceting diagram. See the 8 point star? That's an 8 main): http://www.jamesallen.com/GIA-Diamond-Certificate/1413220/H-VS1-Good-Cut-2.02-Carat-Oval-Diamond.JPG

6 main oval faceting diagram: http://www.jamesallen.com/GIA-Diamond-Certificate/1489249/K-SI1-Good-Cut-5.58-Carat-Oval-Diamond.JPG

4 main oval faceting diagram: http://www.jamesallen.com/GIA-Diamond-Certificate/1515971/E-VS1-Very%20Good-Cut-1.71-Carat-Oval-Diamond.JPG


PERSONALLY: I find that if you can find a nice 8 main, they are usually better cut and have better blended bowties. That's not to say you can't find nice 4 mains and 6 mains (you ABSOLUTELY CAN), but from what I've observed those are hit or miss, and with you working with BN if you can find an 8 main, I think you'll be safer. BUT, 8 mains are harder to find.

THAT SAID: You should probably stick to their signature ideals AND see if their gemologists know what a 'bowtie' is and see if they can have someone examine the actual stones you are looking at for that.

BE PREPARED: To do a couple exchanges with them until you find the right stone. Now you may not need to, and the first one you pick might be great. But it might not. BN has a great return policy.
 
:eek:

Kudos for always being so dedicated to helping out, Gypsy.. I would not have come back if I were you :angryfire:
 
madelise|1346427001|3260314 said:
:eek:

Kudos for always being so dedicated to helping out, Gypsy.. I would not have come back if I were you :angryfire:
Click to expand...

Seriously. I get frustrated too but you don't see me beating up total strangers with a stick!
 
ForteKitty|1346427194|3260318 said:
madelise|1346427001|3260314 said:
:eek:

Kudos for always being so dedicated to helping out, Gypsy.. I would not have come back if I were you :angryfire:
Click to expand...

Seriously. I get frustrated too but you don't see me beating up total strangers with a stick!
Click to expand...

Funny, I totally clicked on this link originally to recommend your ring! :lol: That is, if it hadn't sold yet!

RT is filled with frustrated people, at their wit's end with B&M jewelers and so called "friends" and "friends of family" giving them the run around with lies. I have never seen people react so harshly to the very help they are requesting!
 
Madelise, It's been reserved by a wonderful local-ish PSer's brother!
 
OMG. Peggy, you are selling your oval? Argh. I would have sold a kidney for that ring.

Thank you Madelise and FK. Honestly, as a moody and grumpy person myself I decided to cut the OP a break. And it's Friday, before a three day weekend and I'm in a good mood. Normally though, I wouldn't bother posting again.
 
The one w/ the half moon, not the Maytal one! And I'm only selling it because I can't size it down and I don't want to ruin the nice setting. Plus, do I really need two ovals?!?
 
ForteKitty|1346428898|3260347 said:
The one w/ the half moon, not the Maytal one! And I'm only selling it because I can't size it down and I don't want to ruin the nice setting. Plus, do I really need two ovals?!?
Click to expand...

ooooooooooooooh. Okay. Whew! So... if you ever sell the Maytal one, I'm happy to hand over my kidney. Just so we're clear.
 
:appl: Oh that's great to hear! It's always nice to know your "kids" get adopted out to the PS family (and extended family)! That was such a quick sale!
 
We have a little frustration, too, when people are dealing with Blue Nile, because Blue Nile needs to provide pictures and idealscope or ASET images like other vendors do. It is almost impossible to help someone choose a diamond from them as much as we'd like to help. So you are beyond your return period with BN, I assume. Like others have said, you really have no choice but to order and return stones until you find one that looks great and preferably have an independent appraiser check the cut and light performance for you.
 
Gypsy,
I owe you an apology. I took your reply the wrong way. I should have elaborated more on my concerns/questions, and I unduly took my frustration out on you. So, I am sorry.

I appreciate everyone being so nice.

I pulled the trigger on this stone. If I do not like it, I will just send it back. I will post some pictures and what my thoughts are once I get it.

Personally, I wouldn't mind some bowtie as I feel it will make the stone a little more unique and provide some contrast. However, my girlfriend may have an issue. It is hard to say. The first stone was an ideal cut, VVS2, H color, .65 carat round diamond. It was a beautiful stone, and I went with the best quality stone and sacrificed size as a result. Come to find out, she would rather sacrifice quality for size, which is the reason I am going with an oval in the first place. I personally like round stones, but in the end it is her ring, and I think the oval cut will be good for what she wants as well as matching her style in general. I just want to make sure I get her something she likes, and what I was hoping would be a fun process is quickly getting to me!!!
 
It's an 8. So, good. I hope the Florescence is safe on that one. When you get it, if it looks cloudy or oily, return it. Here is an article that tells you what to look for: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence if it has no negative effect, then I love florescence.

If you do have to return this one, just for the future: You don't need VVS clarity. It's not a matter of quality, it's a matter of putting your money where it is the most useful. I would stick to H or better for color and safely drop clarity down to VS2.

It's very large for it's carat weight. So... fingers crossed for you.

If that one doesn't work out here is the one I would try (or I would switch the one you bought to this one now):
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?pt=sig&filter_id=0#diamonds_pid=LD02656192
 
Thank you Gypsy.
 
:wavey: We're good. Thanks for the apology (meant to post that earlier). Post back when you get whichever stone you decide to keep.
 
I just got my contact with Blue Nile on the phone. She said she is having the vault check the stone if it hasn't shipped yet, and if it had, she would have the QA/QC department double check it. She said that she was hopeful there were no issues based on the cut, in addition to the fact that nothing was noted on their end. Additionally, she said the Strong Fluorescence shouldn't be an issue, and should help the appearance of the stone since the color is a bit lower. Hopefully all goes well. I will keep you posted once the new one gets here, but that is likely a couple weeks out.

I know Blue Nile can get a bad rap, but I have been very happy with them. I bought a ring from Littmans (also Fred Meyers depending where you are), and returned it 3 days later. I also did not like local jewelers as they were pushy and I felt that what they had was overpriced. Prior to this stone, I had my Blue Nile contact have the vault(s) pull various stones to check for issues and eye cleanliness, and they were very prompt and honest in getting back to me. While I agree they should have additional resources available on their webpage (i.e. pictures), I have been more than happy working with them and I can be difficult to please at times. Had I a chance do this over I would likely give GOG a chance, as I hear they are excellent. Thanks again for the help. I usually only post on fantasy football and baseball boards and people are generally not very nice, and I guess I have been a little conditioned by them. They are more bloodthirsty than anything...
 
I like Blue Nile actually. They have lovely policies, nice quality settings and jewelry items, and great customer service, plus one of the best return polices around.

And they recently have been getting much better about inspecting the stones and stuff. It's just that with fancies in particular so much depends on what the diamond looks like and how it performs and for those purposes, it can be a little hard to work with them. PARTICULARLY for ovals, where there is no "Signature" line (which there is for rounds, princesses, emeralds, and asschers), so that makes it even more challenging.

As for Florescence. It's case by case and per stone. Period.

I'm absolutely not a hard sell person, so I totally get what you mean.
 
I was able to get through to the supplier. What do you suppose they mean by a "medium bowtie"? Thanks.
 
It's impossible to guess what someone else means, without actually asking them. But, in MY world that means: There's a definite bowtie. It's not the worst I've seen. Not the best either. It's definitely there, but let's stick the word "medium" in front of it and hope that alleviates the concern and they buy it. :lol:

Can you ask them to recommend a BRIGHT stone with great performance, eyeclean, at budget and with a "MINIMAL or NO" bowtie for you? (Not asking a lot there at all, are we?).
 
That might be too much to ask. I tried to get a better definition of medium, and that was a waste of my breath. So medium... less than strong, greater than faint? Check. Great. That is about the most information I could get from them.

I asked the Blue Nile rep for pictures or an ASET image, and got some run around about the supplier not having the technology. I told them I would give it a shot, but to keep in mind I may be sending it right back. For the price, I think I need to see this stone in person. If it isn't right, I will send it back and get a different one. At this point I am too deep in.

I will post some pictures with my limited technology (aka digital camera), that the supplier doesn't seem to have, once it comes in.

Thanks.
 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The Limited Technology one is always awesome isn't it? It's not like every cellphone on the market comes armed with one or anything.

Looking forward to your update when you have the stone. Fingers crossed for you that it works out.
 
Well, I think it will be a keeper. I can barely see the bowtie, and only in direct sunlight, and only at a few angles. Even then, you don't see it unless you are actively looking for it.

The fluorescence is making me wonder, but I don't really see any haziness/oily appearances. I am not 100% sure what strong fluorescence would normally appear as, so maybe it is normal.

Any thoughts on what I would look for to judge how bad the strong fluorescence effects the appearance?

I will post some pictures later on today or tomorrow. Thanks.
 
Gypsy, her J VVS is only $2,800...posted at the bottom of the cert. Hopefully the J will face up white enough. That H is $5,000. For the money i'm liking the J with strong blue flor. Will be interesting to see what she thinks of it when she gets it. Surely the gemologist at BN can tell her if it looks hazey or oily. Hope the J is a winner!

Oops, sorry I never read to the end of the thread before I post. Ok, so here is an H graded by EGL which is most likely an I or J with meduim blue fl. Hubba hubba is right....I love this stone and you can see in sunlight the fl. makes the stone appear blue. It is lovely. Does your J do this too?

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-Vintage/356ct-Loose-Old-European-Cut/19804036_Qxwpx5#!i=1556541783&k=jngbGmt

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-Vintage/356ct-Loose-Old-European-Cut/19804036_Qxwpx5#!i=1610940947&k=nKKGh89
 
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