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Need opinion - just bought e-ring

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Sagapet

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
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First off I just want to thank everyone on this forum for being so helpful, I have spent hours reading all your posts on diamonds in general and it has been a tremendous help.

I have looked at online loose diamonds, local jewelers, and mall stores, and I made a decision last nite, but need your guys thoughts on it as well.

My GF saw THE setting that she wanted at Rogers and Hollands, its a 5 setting, 3/8 TW with a 5/8th SI 1-3 and G-H color center stone. It retailed for 3k, which I know was high. I talked to my local jeweler about getting the setting made, and buying a loose diamond at the same grade and he came in at about 2500 to 2600. The only prob with that was, the setting was close but not exact. Anyways I walked into rogers and hollands and decided to negotiate with them to get the price down, which I did. I ended up closing the deal with tax at 2375, so the ring ended up being like 2225.

The only issue I have with the diamond, is that there is an inclusion that I can see with the naked eye from the side near the girdle, which looks like a spot is crushed, but its on the inside. From top down the color looks great, as does the color and I dont see any imperfections.

I am saving myself a few hundred and getting the exact setting my GF LOVES but I am wondering did I get a good deal? Did I overpay? What are you guys thoughts on the inclusion that looks like its crushed?

Also, the ring is appraied by Rogers and Hollands but there is no GIA cert on it since they dont pay to have the GIA cert for diamonds lower than 1ct to lower the cost. I dont really ever plan on selling the diamond since my GF will have it forever, but I do plan on getting it appraised during the 30 day return policy.

Just wondering if the GIA cert is huge to have.

Sorry if this seems like a jumble of questions, but I am trying to type this and keep an eye on my GF as she is sitting right near me
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Ive attached the ring so you guys can take a look.

Thank again.
 
Woops forgot the picture

rings32452345.jpg
 
We have no way of telling you what kind of deal you got without knowing more info on the stone that a GIA or AGS cert provides.
If you are happy with the deal and you think your GF will be happy with the ring then thats what matters in your case.
 
First off, let me say that I think that is a really pretty ring!
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I would be a little concerned with buying an SI-2,SI-3 stone without a reputable laboratory cert... SI-3 is really the same thing as I-1, and I don''t think that inclusions that are visible to the naked eye are really a good thing for e-rings... unless it could be covered with a prong or something. Is there any way that you can post some pictures of the actual ring so we can see what you are talking about? Also, we would need a little bit more detailed information about the ring/stones to really be able to tell if you got a "good deal" or not.
 
Thanks! Well the information that I have, is that the ring is rated with all the diamonds together. So the entire setting including the center stone is Color grade H, SI1-3, ideal cut. The two banquettes and two smaller round stones are 3/8 TW and the center stone is 5/8th TW. The color is really good, shows no tint whats so ever, and it sparkles really well, its just that one side inclusion that looks like a chip or like crushed glass on the side of the girdle. You can only see it when its close to your eye and from the side. I asked the lady and she told me it was SI1 for the center stone but since they rate the entire setting with the center stone(under 1ct they do that for) so they give the si1-3 since it includes the smaller stones.

For a couple hundred dollars more I could take my luck with bluenile and order a diamond from there, and then order a custom setting which is close to the one pictured. I just dont know if I am going to get much more if I go that route. Considering she can just walk into the mall, have it cleaned and warranty checked and what not. If I buy a stone online its more of a hassle cause you never know exactly what you are going to get, and if something should happen, they arent local.

Hope that helps.
 
You know how much GIA reports cost for stones less than 1 ct? It's like... $60 or something like that. Not very expensive. I think its BS when stores say they don't send stones to GIA as if it were a favor to the customer.
 
Date: 11/22/2009 2:41:17 PM
Author: Sagapet
Thanks! Well the information that I have, is that the ring is rated with all the diamonds together. So the entire setting including the center stone is Color grade H, SI1-3, ideal cut. The two banquettes and two smaller round stones are 3/8 TW and the center stone is 5/8th TW. The color is really good, shows no tint whats so ever, and it sparkles really well, its just that one side inclusion that looks like a chip or like crushed glass on the side of the girdle. You can only see it when its close to your eye and from the side. I asked the lady and she told me it was SI1 for the center stone but since they rate the entire setting with the center stone(under 1ct they do that for) so they give the si1-3 since it includes the smaller stones.

For a couple hundred dollars more I could take my luck with bluenile and order a diamond from there, and then order a custom setting which is close to the one pictured. I just dont know if I am going to get much more if I go that route. Considering she can just walk into the mall, have it cleaned and warranty checked and what not. If I buy a stone online its more of a hassle cause you never know exactly what you are going to get, and if something should happen, they arent local.

Hope that helps.
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OK, I''ve just got to jump in here
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- actually, you''ve got it a bit bass-ackwards there. With a reputable online store, you know EXACTLY what you''re going to get; the stones will be certed from GIA or AGS, so you''ll know precisely what color it is, what types of inclusions the stone has and where they''re located, the exact clarity, and the proportions (those are important to knowing how the stone will sparkle... or not). With an uncerted stone and a range of color and clarity grades given to you by the seller (rather than a third party) you have no idea what you have. Especially as far as cut goes. And in fact there''s no way to tell if you got a good deal without knowing what you have...

However, sometimes making your fiance happy is the thing to do, so you need to weight that in.
 
Date: 11/22/2009 2:41:17 PM
Author: Sagapet
Thanks! Well the information that I have, is that the ring is rated with all the diamonds together. So the entire setting including the center stone is Color grade H, SI1-3, ideal cut. The two banquettes and two smaller round stones are 3/8 TW and the center stone is 5/8th TW. The color is really good, shows no tint whats so ever, and it sparkles really well, its just that one side inclusion that looks like a chip or like crushed glass on the side of the girdle. You can only see it when its close to your eye and from the side. I asked the lady and she told me it was SI1 for the center stone but since they rate the entire setting with the center stone(under 1ct they do that for) so they give the si1-3 since it includes the smaller stones.


For a couple hundred dollars more I could take my luck with bluenile and order a diamond from there, and then order a custom setting which is close to the one pictured. I just dont know if I am going to get much more if I go that route. Considering she can just walk into the mall, have it cleaned and warranty checked and what not. If I buy a stone online its more of a hassle cause you never know exactly what you are going to get, and if something should happen, they arent local.


Hope that helps.
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Honestly, if it were me, I would probably look for a loose stone form a trusted online vendor, and then find a setting that was similar to the one you GF likes... No quality vendor is going to grade the ring as a whole... You need specs for each stone! There are many great vendors here, like Brian Gavin, Whiteflash, James Allen, Good Old Gold, etc... Even if they are not local, you can find a nice local store to take your ring in for a cleaning, check the stones, etc...Something just doesn't feel right to me about the grading on that ring. The difference between an SI 1 and an SI3 is pretty big!

ETA- Can you just buy the setting, but put your own loose stone in it? Perhaps we can help you find a lovely stone, and they can set it for you?
 
Date: 11/22/2009 3:03:40 PM
Author: JulieN
You know how much GIA reports cost for stones less than 1 ct? It''s like... $60 or something like that. Not very expensive. I think its BS when stores say they don''t send stones to GIA as if it were a favor to the customer.
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Ditto...Sagapet its usually because the stone will not come back rated as well as they claim.

Here is an ACA (which means very well cut), H, SI1 - AGS cert (as good or better than GIA depending who
you ask) .61 $1325...that leaves you about $900 for a setting.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2213219.htm

It has an Ideal scope image, ASET image, and a hearts image to show you exactly what you are getting. You have
the specs to tell you that this is all around a well cut diamond that will mostly outshine that uncertified stone in almost
any lighting (my opinion). It has a table of 54.9%k depth of 62%, crown angle of 34.4 degree and pav angle of 40.8
degrees...all this specs go into determine how well a stone is cut and how well it will reflect the light. It scores
a 1.3 on the HCA, x,x,x,vg and is within TIC (Tolkowsky Ideal Cut). Whiteflash can also view the diamond for you
and tell you if it is eye-clean within your standards (no crushed looking inclusion).

Do you have all this information about your diamond? Do you know its a well cut stone (besides what they tell you?)
Most (if not all) people on this diamond forum would rather have this stone that they know is a well cut stone and
will be a great performer. I''m not saying that your ring/stone is bad, we just dont know enough about it to make
an educated guess.
 
Thank you, all of you. I figured something just was not right, and the si3 grade with that side crushed inclusion just wasn't sitting right. I actually just went in there, and returned the ring. I am going to have my local jeweler order the setting that is similar to the one at R & H.

tyty333, thanks for posting that diamond, that seems like a great deal for a excellent cut, even cheaper than the ones I was looking at blue nile. If I were to order that one, do I just email them and ask them if there are any visible inclusions one the side? Also what is the pricescope price and how do I get that? Also do you have a 3/4 ct one that you would recommend, just out of comparison?

This is the setting that I am going to order online, its 3/8th tw. I think its pretty close.

Thank you guys so much, you have really helped take some of this stress off my shoulders!

ring55534234.jpg
 
And another view, I think they are really close in design...

ring66667.JPG
 
Not sure what is your range of specs and budget.

Something like this?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1213134.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

or this?
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1253675.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

EDT:
PS price is if you post on PS and fulfills other conditions. WF seems to require wire-transfer to get that, might be mistaken so no harm asking them. JA is that price even with credit, with wire-transfer you will get an additional 1.5% off.
 
Wow, you did find a setting that''s virtually identical. I think you''re being very smart in your approach! The setting is very pretty by the way, and I like the 6 prongs on the new one... safer and makes the stone look rounder.
 
This is similar too. It's got the bags before the rounds down the shank, but it's back to 4 prongs. This link is to the platinum setting which is more but they have 14k white or yellow gold or 18k white or yellow gold as well.

Setting

ETA! Oh they have it reversed to with the rounds first...just like yours and 4 prong.

Another one

I'm pretty sure Brian and Lesley at Brian Gavin Diamonds can source these settings and put it with one of their stones. May be worth looking in to.
 
Do you think its noticeable going from .63 to .61? I would assume not much, if its negligible then I am fine with that. I tried looking up a comparable .70-75ct but it seems like you pay a heavy premium to get there. Compared to the .61 diamond its about an additional 1k. Maybe I am just not looking well enough.

Thanks again guys for your time and thoughts.
 
Date: 11/22/2009 8:02:25 PM
Author: Sagapet
Do you think its noticeable going from .63 to .61? I would assume not much, if its negligible then I am fine with that.
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Probably not... take a look in the cut search tool. .63ct diamonds are in the low 5.5x mm range, .61ct diamonds are in the mid-to-high 5.4x mm range. IMO less than 1/10mm fits within the definition of negligible...

+1 on the decision to return it, and +1 on JulieN's comment. they have almost zero accountability for non-cert'd diamonds, so you almost have a better chance at hitting the lottery than really getting what they say you're getting...

Also, if stone recommends a diamond, you can be darn sure there's not a B&M that can hold a candle to it in your budget. (this despite the fact that B&M's almost never compare well with any of the very fine PS vendors
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)

edit: missed tyty's recommendation of an ACA. absolutely can't go wrong with those either!!
 
You are so doing the right thing!
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She''s going to be thrilled with the sparkle that she sees! Hitting the .75 mark does it another price point but if you can stay below that magic number you could get a better deal.

Any idea what your diamond only budget is?
 
Prob looking for 1500 to 1700 for the diamond, so if I can get like a .70 with good stats within that price range then I am all for it.

Yeah I just told the lady at R & H when I went in to return it, "frankly if I stay here I am paying more for less" Which was the truth. Im am going to see my local jeweler tommorow, have him order the setting and probably order the loose diamond in the next day or two, hoping to find something close to .70 or so for a good price.

Thanks again guys.
 
Date: 11/22/2009 9:58:45 PM
Author: Sagapet

Im am going to see my local jeweler tommorow, have him order the setting and probably order the loose diamond in the next day or two, hoping to find something close to .70 or so for a good price.


Thanks again guys.
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HOLD THE PHONE
Do some comparison shopping on the setting too. I have seen that or similar setting on more than one PS vendors site.

Also, it is generally going to be best to have the same vendor for your setting and your stone. It works better with insurance and warranty issues. There are many many threads on this subject.
 
Not sure about the I color grade rating, havent seen I but I dont think I wanna go much lower than H. I also tried digging around to find that setting on a PS but no luck so far.

Just found this one, if I get it, what am I missing compared to the other one? The cut and fire?

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2185725.htm#
 
Date: 11/23/2009 11:05:13 AM
Author: Sagapet
Not sure about the I color grade rating, havent seen I but I dont think I wanna go much lower than H. I also tried digging around to find that setting on a PS but no luck so far.

Just found this one, if I get it, what am I missing compared to the other one? The cut and fire?

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2185725.htm#
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Sagapet - whiteflash has no info loaded for this stone so we cant tell you anything about it. You would have to call
them and get them to load the info (or call the stone in).
 
Thanks, I will have to call them tommorow. So heres an update.


I went to my local jeweler and we went over some of his diamonds, all of which were really nice and not unreasonably priced. But he was still about 300 more than the 5/8th carat I was looking at whiteflash. He looked at the cut of the whiteflash diamond and agreed it SHOULD be a good looking diamond. But he said that if I bought it, he would look at it before he set it in the setting, and if wasnt what the GIA and AGS reports said they are, he wasnt going to set it. Reason being was that he didnt want to get wrapped up with a diamond that is lower than what was certified, something about being responsible. Does that makes sense to you guys? I think I am going to order that whiteflash diamond tommorow after talking to them but what my local jeweler said worried me. Any negatives to me buying the setting from my local jeweler and the diamond from whiteflash?

Oh, I also looked at an I color diamond while I was there, and I was suprised at how good it looked. Tempted to look at an I diamond but worried that if I order and online one at I color grade it might look too yellow.

EDIT:

Just got the GIA report on that .70 carat stone. Its about a 150 more from .61 to .70 but I dont think the stone is as good. You guys have any thoughts on the .70 stone?
 
Here is the GIA report for the .70 ct stone.

70 H SI1.jpg
 
the .70 H SI1 is not a good choice.

Really, I color should be fine at this carat weight.
 
It is a FIC, Fiery Ideal Cut. That together with a thick in the girdle variation make it face up smaller compared with similar ideal cuts.

As a comparison, ideally cut stone should have a diameter of about 5.7mm. This stone has a face up diameter similar to a 0.65c stone.
 
Date: 11/23/2009 6:08:39 PM
Author: Sagapet
Thanks, I will have to call them tommorow. So heres an update.


I went to my local jeweler and we went over some of his diamonds, all of which were really nice and not unreasonably priced. But he was still about 300 more than the 5/8th carat I was looking at whiteflash. He looked at the cut of the whiteflash diamond and agreed it SHOULD be a good looking diamond. But he said that if I bought it, he would look at it before he set it in the setting, and if wasnt what the GIA and AGS reports said they are, he wasnt going to set it. Reason being was that he didnt want to get wrapped up with a diamond that is lower than what was certified, something about being responsible. Does that makes sense to you guys? I think I am going to order that whiteflash diamond tommorow after talking to them but what my local jeweler said worried me. Any negatives to me buying the setting from my local jeweler and the diamond from whiteflash?

Oh, I also looked at an I color diamond while I was there, and I was suprised at how good it looked. Tempted to look at an I diamond but worried that if I order and online one at I color grade it might look too yellow.
Click to expand...

Interesting what your jeweler said. I guess he is just CYAing. He should check the stone by looking at the inclusions. If
they match up what is on the cert then all should be good. He should not be telling you that the color/clarity is other
than what is on the cert. The GIA folks who certify ithe stone are more of an expert than your jeweler.

You need to look at getting the stone insured while you are having it set. Ask your jeweler who is responsible if the diamond is
damaged while it is being set? I will try to dig up some links for insurance in a minute. Contact your insurance company
if you have renters insurance or homeowners insurance and ask them if your stone is covered.

Links for insurance...

www.jewelersmutual.com



A well cut I colored stone should face up pretty white. You may see a hint of color from the side. It really all depends
on how color sensitive you/your girlfriend are. Lorelei always suggest to go to Jareds and ask to see a Peerless I diamond.
An I colored stone can be budget friendly if you are trying to maximize size.
 
Thanks tyty and the rest of you. My local jeweler is an older gentlemen who is kinda leary of the internet, and rightly so. I just think he was CYAing like you said, as he doesnt wanna get hit years later saying he changed the stone etc. I dont think he was knocking GIA or AGS, he was just worried that the cert wasnt going to be accurate to the diamond that I received from Whiteflash. Which I dont think should happen, right? I think whiteflash has a pretty good rep so I dont think they would try and pass shady stones, course I will have my jeweler look at it. I could tell he was a little taken back when I suggested I probably was going to go internet, but hey its business and money is money.

I was really shocked when I looked at three diamonds, G, H, and I color grades, and though I could notice a slight difference, I couldnt really tell all that easily. Since that 5/8 ct diamond you showed me has such a great cut and specs, I will prob end up with that, less I find a .70 for a good deal. Looks like that .70 diamond is junk so I will move on.

I am going to be insuring the ring and diamond through my home owners policy, will need to ask my jeweler if he covers the diamond while he is working with it.
 
I went through a similar setting process as you just mention. I bought a stone from USACerted company, and brought it a local store where I bought their tacori setting. The store refuse to do an in house appraisal for us because it is a code of ethic. However, they went through a stone verification process before they set the stone. We went through the following steps

1) They put the stone under microscope to verify the inscription with me
2) Still under high power scope, we looks for chips on the girdle. They said that they don''t want to be liable for what they didn''t do.

AFter they set the stone, we went through step 1 and 2 again, except in step 2 I have to verify that they didn''t cause any chips on the girdle.
 
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