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ridlejs

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
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Hello All,

Im new to the forum and did a quick search and came up with alot of information. I''m sure you get asked this question alot but here goes:

I have just started the process of looking for a diamond and am overwhelmed with the information. (As well as the prices I''ve seen). I want to pay less than $3,000 dollars and obviously get the best bang for my buck. Don''t know if I should sacrifice carat, cut, or clarity. One thing that sounds almost to good to be true is what one of my friends did:

He went to one of those small-business wholesale markets where they have everything from jewlery to clothes. He went to a jewler that his fiance''s mom had recommended, and saw a diamond that he liked that wasn''t certified or appraised (maybe one or the other not completely sure) anyways, it was a 2.5 carat solitaire, round very good cut. He told the jewler that he would buy it if it appraised as what the dealer said the diamond was. The diamond comes back and it ends up appraising even better than what the jewler said, I think it turned out to be a D instead of an F. So my friend said that he ended up buying it for one-third of what it appraised for. Now I''ve looked at retail of one that quality and ,man, that is a serious diamond.

My questions are: How legit is this? Should I be looking for good deals on non-cert, and then just get them certified? If that''s the case, why don''t the jewlers just do that and triple their profit?

My biggest question is where to start with diamonds? I thought I wanted close to a carat diamond, but I can;t believe the prices I''m seeing for those right now. The jewlers I have been to just show me the retail price of the diamond and don''t budge. They''ll just tell me I need to sacrifice something to get the price down. Now I''m in sales and I know that all prices are negotiable. There is a profit that you want to make and then there is the profit that you''re willing ot make. I know If one of my customers is about to walk, I''d rather make one dollar than zero. So what is a realistic expectation for something less than 3,000? Should I look non-cert and then send it off to get cert? Should I sacrifice carat, and maximize cut?

Sorry for the long post, but this a big decision (obviously) for me.
 
Who paid for the appraiser? If it is the jeweler, then there is a conflict on interest there. A grading by GIA/AGS runs at the cost of 150 or so, but brings about a big increase in premium to the stone, especially an over 2.5c D color stone. So ask yourself why would any cutter, jeweler forsake that increase in profit and keep it ungraded unless he knows the stone would not sell at the same price he is asking for now if he send it to be graded.
 
Thats what I said, but I''m pretty sure he said he got it GIA certified. It just doesn''t add up to me, but he said a lot of people recommended he go see that jewler. I''d be more than willing to fly out there, and get it certified if it means im paying a third of appraisal cost.

But if that is too good to be true, what are some other good options? I just haven''t been that pleased with the local jewlers I''ve come in contact with. I just want the best bang for my buck so to speak. Ebay maybe? Theres just no way I can justify spending what alot of jewlers want for their diamonds. I''m just very cynical because of the nature of a diamond purchase. Nobody really knows anything about the product they are purchasing, and it is an EXTREMELY emotional buy. Not good combinations if you want a fair price on something, it seems to me.
 
If it now has a GIA report, then good for him. But probably he has an appraiser report signed by a GIA graduate gemologist.
 
Maybe so, do you have any advice on what to look for and where to start looking for a nice engagement ring?
 
Date: 10/19/2009 3:06:15 PM
Author: ridlejs
Maybe so, do you have any advice on what to look for and where to start looking for a nice engagement ring?
Click to expand...
Welcome ridlejs!

Concentrate on cut quality so you have a beautiful diamond, then you could look at GIA or AGS graded SI clarity grades if eyeclean and H I or J colour to help get the most bang for the buck budgetwise. Then see what carat weight you can get for that, we can also suggest diamonds which might suit you?

What is your budget exactly and how much do you want to allocate for the diamond and how much for the setting?
 
Something doesn''t sound right but I don''t believe the jeweler is taking any loss. I bet there''s a clarity difference between what the appraiser said (lower), and what the jeweler claimed (higher). That would pretty much make even a D, SI2, worth about the same as an F SI1. At least from the PS search I did.

Regarding finding a stone, Lorelei said it all.
 
I want to keep it under 3,000. I thought I could find a one carat for that price, but its looking harder and harder. I really would like to spend 3,000 total on setting and stone. I know she wants a six prong band, and white gold is fine. I really like the tapered setting that gets smaller as it gets to the stone. I really just want a great value. I don''t want to throw 3,000 up there and say, "show me what you got." I want to get the best possible value for a stone, if it means that I get a .75 carat that looks better than a 1 so be it. Im just clueless as to what I should be paying, and don''t want to be taken advantage of which seems like it could be very easy to do in this industry.
 
You're not gonna hit the 1ct mark with 3k unless you seriously want to go down in color and clarity. And by go down I mean L, M colors. As this is for an e-ring, and you really don't know if you girl prefers the warm colors, I'd stick to an H-I, SI1 where you can get close to a .75ct.

Just did a search on JamesAllen.com as they seem to be your best bet for finding something nice within your budget. I saw 16 stones ranging from .71-.83 between H-I and vvs to si1 clarit. I didn't look through them all but there seem to be some nice ones.

here's a few http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1193842.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1197183.asp a little leakage but don't think it's visible.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1204011.asp I'd make sure it's eye clean even thought I couldn't see anything without the loupe.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1213134.asp

eta: Nice picks Swingirl.
 
You''ll be unlikely to manage a near-colourless (J), eye-clean (SI2), round stone for $3000 - and that won''t include a mounting.
You could try looking at non-rounds, which might allow you to get a 1ct, near-colourless, eye clean stone for a price at the top end of your budget.
Or you could go for a stone that''s slightly under the 1ct level, which would be at the top end of your budget. Maybe 0.95ct? Since it will look the same as 1.0ct and the size of 0.95 will "round-up" to 1.0ct.
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I think that your friend just got lucky (or conned). Maybe he should also have bought a lottery ticket on that day and pushed his luck to the limit?
Can your friend verify the stone against the GIA inclusion plot, to confirm that he really was given the correct diamond?
 
I don''t know about the inclusion plot, I''ll ask. Probably a no-no but what about E-Bay from a top seller? I don''t mind just getting the stone either, and then finding the setting.

Also, would it be better to find a smaller carat diamond with a better cut than a larger carat with everything else being equal?
 
Are you trying to get the best bang for your buck or the biggest bang for your buck?
If you think you can find a good 1ct on ebay for under 3k, you''ll be disappointed unless you can find a private seller who''s willing to take a loss for whatever reason. Ever heard the term frozen spit? That''s pretty much what you''ll get on ebay for a 3k, 1ct.

The links that Swingirl and I posted really are you best bet for getting a quality diamond. By quality I mean a beautiful stone that has brilliiance and fire and will put 3k, 1ct stones to shame.


On here, you''re going to find that the cut quality of the stone trumps size. But that doesn''t mean that''s what''s most important to you.
So if you''re all about size, you can still find a nice stone that''s probably bigger than a 3/4ct but it will have a warm tint since you''ll have to go down in color, and may not be eyeclean, as you''d have to start hitting the lower clarities.
 
Haha I understand, just making sure. So, even if I do not buy from the links posted, cut trumps size all day? So what cut should I be looking for if I go to a store, or if I shop online?
 
If you''re looking in stores, the first thing I''d ask for is to only see GIA certed stones/rings. Why? Because GIA and AGS are known for being stricest on color and clarity grading so that means, you''re pretty much getting what you''re paying for. I said GIA and not AGS because there''s a slim chance you''ll find AGS stones at your typical jewelry store. Doesn''t hurt to ask though. I''m aslo talking about rounds here, not fancy shapes. If you''re looking for a fancy, I''d stick to Pears and Ovals as they "can" face up bigger. But for brilliance, I don''t think anything beats a round. Then again, I haven''t seen many well cut fancy stones.

Read the tutorials here to get a good idea of how the crown and pavilion angles work together and make sure to get those numbers (as well as depth and table size) from whomever you''re considering. Take a good look at the stone away from the store lights. Everything looks pretty in those lights, including poorly cut stones. See if you can take the diamond to a window and look at it there. There''s a ton of tips. Just do a few searches here and you''ll find alot of valuable info.

I''d also try to find a local Jared''s and ask to see their Peerless diamonds so you know what a well cut stone looks like.
 
Never sacrifice cut. But some premium cuts or non-hearts-and-arrows might be good performers that will get you into the .9 to 1ct price range. For color, most people say don't go below H for an e-ring. Regarding size, you'd probably be better off getting a .75ct very good or excellent RB cut rather than a 1ct fair cut. Clarity is what I'll sacrifice, personally, since most people won't be close enough to the ring to see any inclusions. And some inclusions hide very well. There are some great I1 and SI2 diamonds here, and out there.

See this thread for an I1 from Good Old Gold GOG I1 ring
see the stone at GOG

An EGL certed diamond may or may not be a good value. They can be 2 grades off in color and clarity, at times. But there are some PS people who got EGL-certed diamonds and think they look fantastic. USA Certed used to be the lowest priced vendor.

And there are older diamonds out there that are very high color and clarity but they are very shallow stones with huge tables, or they are cut for brilliance with very little fire (looks okay if you don't want much fire), or they are just poorly cut overall. I looked at a 2+ carat D VVS1 estate diamond the other day, and was very disappointed with it. Yes, it had color and clarity, and size, but it was dull and lifeless and looked exactly like a dirty and hazy diamond similant, to be honest. It would need to be recut to wake it up.
 
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6050/ is the stone's correct link
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/good-old-gold-you-little-beauty.126449/ is the e-ring link
Sorry, I didn't catch the URL mistake earlier.
 
Date: 10/19/2009 4:38:22 PM
Author: elle_chris
Read the tutorials here to get a good idea of how the crown and pavilion angles work together and make sure to get those numbers (as well as depth and table size) from whomever you''re considering. Take a good look at the stone away from the store lights. Everything looks pretty in those lights, including poorly cut stones. See if you can take the diamond to a window and look at it there. There''s a ton of tips. Just do a few searches here and you''ll find alot of valuable info.

I''d also try to find a local Jared''s and ask to see their Peerless diamonds so you know what a well cut stone looks like.
Click to expand...
Best advice for where you are at right now. A little knowlege will go a long way for you. In fact that is where you will get your best bang for buck. This is a meaningful and important purchase which merits taking the time to learn about the product you are interested in. There is no sense in shelling out that kind of money on something you do not yet understand.

Now that is not a "shot" at you at all. It is what brought most of us here to PS in the first place. So welcome to the club, we are glad to have you with us. Spend some time in the knowlegde section and reading the forums. Before you know it you will find yourself able to answer questions other people ask in the forums.
 
Here''s a few to start with, that are well cut, large, and of a high color. How eye clean they are depends on your eye! ;)

0.85 E I1 - $ 2,819
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=198

0.87 G-SI2 - $2,970
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218702.asp

0.80 I SI1 - $2,969
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6223/

0.80 H SI2 - $2,856.96
http://www.niceice.com/display_diamond_details.php?id=2a2

0.77 H VS1 - $2,983.00
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1848248.htm

The other alternative, which I highly recommend, is to read the various testimonials here, pick a PS vendor you like and seem to interact with well, and lay out your parameters. Let the professional do the hunting for you.
 
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