Need help with CADs

[Jessabeka]

Hi y'all, I need some advice with my CAD drawings. I had a local jewelry store make me a custom halo ring using an 8x6 oval aquamarine. I gave them photo of my inspiration from online. When I got the ring back, I was unhappy with the gap between the halo and the stone, and the halo was completely flat with no angle like I had wanted. They are having the ring re-made for me and just sent me the CAD. The original size of the the halo diamonds were 1.5 mm, but to make the halo fit the stone properly we are now planning to use 1.4-1.45 mm stones. I'm not sure from the CADs if the halo stones are still too big for my center stone. The ring made on the first attempt looked like the halo was too bulky for the stone, but I'm not sure if that's because the halo itself was too big or if the stone size was also too big. I don't know what the halo stone size is from my inspiration photo, but both that photo and my CADs have 18 halo stones. Do you guys think I should go down to 1.3mm halo stones? I have attached photos of my inspiration photo, the first attempt of the ring, and the new CADs. Thanks!

 

[whitewave]

We need to see the CAD

 

[Jessabeka]

We need to see the CAD

got in the post now! sorry!

 

[whitewave]

@rockysalamander

I don’t think they are understanding what to do with the halo

 

[Jessabeka]

@rockysalamander

I don’t think they are understanding what to do with the halo

 

[Jessabeka]

@rockysalamander can you be more specific please? It looks like they they angled the halo in the CADs, what else looks wrong?

 

[rockysalamander]

Oh my. Giant images to come. Sorry for those on slower connections!

1) Did you want the halo to be so high relative to the shank? There is not right or wrong answer, just be sure you are comfortable. Your halo is showing to be 6.5 mm above the shank, but is looks very high for this design. I'd drop the stone much lower in height and have them lower the halo. Then have them adjust the V on the shank to keep the number of pink stones (see sizes below). You might lose a few green to make this adjustment.

2) The halo. Oh my, the halo. This might take more than one round of CAD to get right.
2a. REDUCE MELEE SIZES. In your inspo, there are 42 melee in total. 12 of them are smaller (the ones in the split part of the shank). The larger melee in the halo and shank are 1.1-1.2 points and the smaller melee in the V-split of the shank are under 1 point (which not everyone can set properly). In the inspo. halo for the same size stone, there are 18 melee diamonds. If your stone is not calibrated, them may need to add or remove 2 to fit it. But that gives a starting point.

But, the goal of the melee size is to achieve the look you want. The girdle of your aqua should float over them leaving no gap (aka airline). So, from above, your aqua is covering about 1/5-1/4 of the perimeter of each halo stone. The girdle should be just above the halo unless you want the stone higher than the inspo. That will really determine the stone size. It might be smaller than 1.1-1.2 points.

Borrowing from @Boom. Even when tilted, this halo has just the very itty bitty gap. That is because the girdle overlaps the halo stones AND the stone is set low in the halo


Comparing to her colored stone here, can you see that the CS is not overlapping as much? So, show them these two and tell them you like the one on the right. No airline or gap. Overlap over the halo stones. Lower stone in halo.


2b. HALO TILT. Your inspiration has melee set flat. I'm going to suggest that you adjust that at this point. Tilt the halo stones so that their tables are not level with the ground. I would recommend that you have them set so that they are 20 degrees tilted downward.

I'm going to borrow CADs from @Mturgeon05 to compare here, I hope that's cool with her. I scaled these to be the same size, but don't worry if you are not really the same size. It just helps with the perspective. Also, she is using 10 point diamonds in her halo, which is why her's look plumper.

Orange line is the tilt outward/downward by 20 degrees. Ignore this if you prefer them totally flat, but I think this make a much better side profile since you get light return from every angle, not just the top.



2c. HALO BOTTOM LEVEL. The bottom of the halo should be level with the floor. The halo bottom should not flex upward like they have it. The halo stones tile outward NOT the halo itself.



@Boom's lovely ring has a more substantial tilt. So, that is another option if you want a strong side profile. But, with a CS halo, this strong a tile is likely not going to work. But, something less than this would.


2d. PRONGS UNDER HALO. After lowering the halo and stone, they need to adjust the prongs. They need to attach just inward of the shoulders (blue arrow). That will help this look more like one cohesive design.




I'd tell them to make those changes, if you like them, and then resend you a CAD. Ask for an additional view from underneath like the BE image above so you can check where they attach the prongs.

 

[Jessabeka]

Thank you for all your advice! I see what you are saying about the halo tilt vs the stones being set on an angle, but doesn’t the photo on the left under 2d appear to have the halo flexed out? When looking at photos of other oval halos, it seemed that the halo tilts outward slightly causing the stones to tilt outwards as well, no?

 

[rockysalamander]

Thank you for all your advice! I see what you are saying about the halo tilt vs the stones being set on an angle, but doesn’t the photo on the left under 2d appear to have the halo flexed out? When looking at photos of other oval halos, it seemed that the halo tilts outward slightly causing the stones to tilt outwards as well, no?

By flex do you mean the raised part in 2c? If so, then no. I've never seen a halo that had an arc like that under the halo. In the picture on the left unde 2d, I think you are seeing a shadow created in the rendering.

When they are setting the pave stones, they will adjust the angle of the drill. If you imagine that the grey below is the halo metal in profile. The orange arrow is the angle they drill and burr to make a seat for the stone in pave. They don't tilt the metal and bring the diamonds with them (like trains on a track). The metal remains in place with a flat bottom (in this design) and they move the drill and burr to change the setting angle.

I think your rendering looks like the tracks on a roller coaster and the cars are the diamonds. So, the track rotates around and the cars follow remaining parallel to the track. That is fine for roller coasters, but not for rings.



https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/the-emilya-with-canera-antique-cushion-in-pink-halo
(click on the video)

Did I answer your question?

 

[Jessabeka]

By flex do you mean the raised part in 2c? If so, then no. I've never seen a halo that had an arc like that under the halo. In the picture on the left unde 2d, I think you are seeing a shadow created in the rendering.

When they are setting the pave stones, they will adjust the angle of the drill. If you imagine that the grey below is the halo metal in profile. The orange arrow is the angle they drill and burr to make a seat for the stone in pave. They don't tilt the metal and bring the diamonds with them (like trains on a track). The metal remains in place with a flat bottom (in this design) and they move the drill and burr to change the setting angle.



https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/the-emilya-with-canera-antique-cushion-in-pink-halo
(click on the video)

Did I answer your question?

Yes, thank you so much!!

 

[rockysalamander]

How's it going? Any updates?

 

[Jessabeka]

I sent him an email with all the changes you suggested and included the photos to be very clear about what I want. He was not happy that I am requesting additional changes beyond what we had initially discussed. Since this is a re-do, he already has my money and claims that all the changes I want are costing him more money. At the end of the conversation, he conceded to make the changes I am requesting after I insisted that they are necessary to make my ring look like my inspiration ring. This is my first custom jewelery experience and I regret not going to a jeweler who does his own work. This place sends it out to another supplier and I think a lot of communication is getting lost with the back-and-forth between us . I’m just very frustrated because he has had my money since April and I still don’t have a ring I like yet. It takes them forever to do anything. It took him a month to get the CAD drawings to me and now they need to revise them again . I wish I could get a refund and walk away from this guy, but since this is a redo of a custom piece I doubt he will agree to that. I really appreciate all your detailed advice, it was very helpful. When I get the next CAD drawings I will post it here for your opinion again, but it will probably be another month before I get them

 

[rockysalamander]

I sent him an email with all the changes you suggested and included the photos to be very clear about what I want. He was not happy that I am requesting additional changes beyond what we had initially discussed. Since this is a re-do, he already has my money and claims that all the changes I want are costing him more money. At the end of the conversation, he conceded to make the changes I am requesting after I insisted that they are necessary to make my ring look like my inspiration ring. This is my first custom jewelery experience and I regret not going to a jeweler who does his own work. This place sends it out to another supplier and I think a lot of communication is getting lost with the back-and-forth between us . I’m just very frustrated because he has had my money since April and I still don’t have a ring I like yet. It takes them forever to do anything. It took him a month to get the CAD drawings to me and now they need to revise them again . I wish I could get a refund and walk away from this guy, but since this is a redo of a custom piece I doubt he will agree to that. I really appreciate all your detailed advice, it was very helpful. When I get the next CAD drawings I will post it here for your opinion again, but it will probably be another month before I get them

How frustrating! Just keep at it. You were 100A% right that they did not match your inspiration setting. This is costing him because he approved a ring the vendor sent that was wrong. Its on him. Hang in there! I'll be watching for the next round of CAD. Fingers crossed he can get it done right. If the CAD is still a mess, you can always ask to speak directly to the CAD designer.

 

[whitewave]

I sent him an email with all the changes you suggested and included the photos to be very clear about what I want. He was not happy that I am requesting additional changes beyond what we had initially discussed. Since this is a re-do, he already has my money and claims that all the changes I want are costing him more money. At the end of the conversation, he conceded to make the changes I am requesting after I insisted that they are necessary to make my ring look like my inspiration ring. This is my first custom jewelery experience and I regret not going to a jeweler who does his own work. This place sends it out to another supplier and I think a lot of communication is getting lost with the back-and-forth between us . I’m just very frustrated because he has had my money since April and I still don’t have a ring I like yet. It takes them forever to do anything. It took him a month to get the CAD drawings to me and now they need to revise them again . I wish I could get a refund and walk away from this guy, but since this is a redo of a custom piece I doubt he will agree to that. I really appreciate all your detailed advice, it was very helpful. When I get the next CAD drawings I will post it here for your opinion again, but it will probably be another month before I get them

This.

I just bought an antique custom moissanite and am thinking of letting my local jeweler have a shot at making the ring. I learned before that my preferred place sends to a different local guy, so I started using him for local things. I have no idea how he does with CADs and dainty multigrain bezels.

It’s just easier to send off to someone recommended here, as they already know what I’m looking for because they have done it so much.

 

[Jessabeka]

Revised CAD is here!

I definitely think it looks better, but I can’t really tell if there’s going to be a gap between halo in the stone from these photos, what do you think @rockysalamander
?

 

[rockysalamander]

Revised CAD is here!

I definitely think it looks better, but I can’t really tell if there’s going to be a gap between halo in the stone from these photos, what do you think @rockysalamander
?

Its certainly better. The halo stones are still not right. They got the tilt and fixed the weird flex. But, The girdle of the center stone should be floating OVER the melee. This shows both a metal "airline" and a gap until the melee. There is at least 1.5 mm between the girdle of the center and the girdle of the melee. They seemed to be designing like the CA on the left, not like the diamond on the right. Maybe this was lost in translation?



Do you want the shank to have 90 degree edges or do you want it softened? The CAD shows hard edges. Compare to @Mturgeon05 CAD posted above. Her shanks shows softened edges. There is not a right answer, but this will be important during finishing.

 

[Jessabeka]

Its certainly better. The halo stones are still not right. They got the tilt and fixed the weird flex. But, The girdle of the center stone should be floating OVER the melee. This shows both a metal "airline" and a gap until the melee. There is at least 1.5 mm between the girdle of the center and the girdle of the melee. They seemed to be designing like the CA on the left, not like the diamond on the right. Maybe this was lost in translation?



Do you want the shank to have 90 degree edges or do you want it softened? The CAD shows hard edges. Compare to @Mturgeon05 CAD posted above. Her shanks shows softened edges. There is not a right answer, but this will be important during finishing.

I just spoke to the jeweler and he SWEARS that there will be no airline in the final ring. He said that their CAD program doesn't allow it to show stones overlapping, so the stone they used for the CAD is a bit smaller then my actual stone. As far as the edges, I'm fine with them. Plus, I think he will kill me if I ask for any more changes .
Thanks again for you expert advice!

 

[rockysalamander]

I just spoke to the jeweler and he SWEARS that there will be no airline in the final ring. He said that their CAD program doesn't allow it to show stones overlapping, so the stone they used for the CAD is a bit smaller then my actual stone. As far as the edges, I'm fine with them. Plus, I think he will kill me if I ask for any more changes .
Thanks again for you expert advice!

I can't speak to their CAD software, but it seems surprising that they can't overlap stones on different 3-D planes. I mean how do they show multistone settings? Can he show you a sketch (draw over the CAD like we do) of your stone on this setting?

Once you get to CAD approval, make that approval contingent on the final setting showing the girdle of the center stone overlapping 1/5-1/4 of the diameter of the melee.

 

[Jessabeka]

I can't speak to their CAD software, but it seems surprising that they can't overlap stones on different 3-D planes. I mean how do they show multistone settings? Can he show you a sketch (draw over the CAD like we do) of your stone on this setting?

Once you get to CAD approval, make that approval contingent on the final setting showing the girdle of the center stone overlapping 1/5-1/4 of the diameter of the melee.

I requested to see the wax this time (it wasn’t offered the first time around and I didn’t know that it was an option). Hopefully I’ll be able to see with my stone in the wax how close the halo is.

 

[Jessabeka]

I can't speak to their CAD software, but it seems surprising that they can't overlap stones on different 3-D planes. I mean how do they show multistone settings? Can he show you a sketch (draw over the CAD like we do) of your stone on this setting?

Once you get to CAD approval, make that approval contingent on the final setting showing the girdle of the center stone overlapping 1/5-1/4 of the diameter of the melee.

Somewhat of an update on this situation: After so many delays and issues and more delays, I finally asked for a refund the other day. I sent an email to the jeweler explaining that this was becoming a headache for me and I no longer trusted his vendor to get the ring made correctly. He did not reply to my email so I called the store twice the next day and left messages with his staff. He never returned my call. The third time I called I was told he had left for the day and would return Tuesday (Monday is Labor Day). I can't believe he is trying to ghost me after all this. He has had my money since April and it's now September and I don't have a ring (I received the first attempt of the ring in late May and returned it to him in early June to redo). At this point, the experience has been so soured for me I don't even want it anymore. I'm going to have to go to the store on Tuesday and have what I anticipate will be an ugly confrontation with him, and I'm dreading it! Have you ever heard of someone taking so long to complete a simple ring like this? I'm practically sick about it

 

[Maisie]

I’m sorry this hasn’t been a great experience for you. Did you use your credit card to pay him? Would your cc company be able to refund you if the jeweller keeps avoiding you?

If you do go into the store make sure there are other customers in there. He won’t want them hearing you complain

 

[rockysalamander]

Somewhat of an update on this situation: After so many delays and issues and more delays, I finally asked for a refund the other day. I sent an email to the jeweler explaining that this was becoming a headache for me and I no longer trusted his vendor to get the ring made correctly. He did not reply to my email so I called the store twice the next day and left messages with his staff. He never returned my call. The third time I called I was told he had left for the day and would return Tuesday (Monday is Labor Day). I can't believe he is trying to ghost me after all this. He has had my money since April and it's now September and I don't have a ring (I received the first attempt of the ring in late May and returned it to him in early June to redo). At this point, the experience has been so soured for me I don't even want it anymore. I'm going to have to go to the store on Tuesday and have what I anticipate will be an ugly confrontation with him, and I'm dreading it! Have you ever heard of someone taking so long to complete a simple ring like this? I'm practically sick about it

Oh no! I agree with @Maisie - go during a busy time.

 

[Jessabeka]

Oh no! I agree with @Maisie - go during a busy time.

I got my refund

 

[rockysalamander]

I got my refund

Wahoooooo!!!! We are so ready to help you when you are ready!

 

[Jessabeka]

Wahoooooo!!!! We are so ready to help you when you are ready!

Thank you, I really appreciate all your help. I’m giving up on this ring for now, and using my refund towards upgrading my diamond when I can afford it. I’ll def need help with that since I’ve never bought a diamond before...I’ll let you know when I’m ready!