NEED HELP with BGL cert identification - bogus certs???

[colorluvr]

Have any of you gotten BGL certs that look authentic, but don't have the embossed seal? I just got some stones from a Thai dealer that I haven't dealt with before.... none of the stones were expensive, but I requested certs (auction said they could be requested) anyway on four of them... the seller said it would take a long time to get them yada yada, but I told them I was willing to wait....then a couple of days later they said they found someone "going into town" so they would be able to get the certs. They are dated on 7/31, and I believe BGL is open Fri and Sat, so that checks outs, but the certs are in numerical order which seems a bit suspect and while they look authentic, the paper is a bit heavier and doesn't have the embossed seal.

Can BGL certs be checked out?

Any chance that the certs can be real and not have the seal? I have to leave town today due to a family emergency, but I can take them with me and mail from there if I have to... I have no way to get the stones authenicated within their return period plus I won't have access to internet unless I go to a library while I am gone.

thanks in advance for the help.

 

[colorluvr]

I also just looked under 5x and the ink on the certs is not crisp like on my other ones.

 

[Upgradable]

CL, I have no idea about BGL certs. I just want to say that I hope you get an answer and that you AREN'T being screwed around by a vendor!

 

[colorluvr]

Thanks Uppy..... I have a bad feeling about this one. I'm hoping if the certs turn out to be bogus I can get my money back on those also, but I can't get the stones verified within the return time period, so if I just return them today I am out the $$$ for the certs...

If I wasn't leaving town, I could at least get one of the stones verbally verified if it is real or not, but now I can't do that either.

But I don't know how to verify if the certs are real.....

 

[Jim Rentfrow]

Does the company have a certification verification process online like GIA and EGL? That is one way you could check, I have not heard of that lab so I am not aware of its procedures.

 

[colorluvr]

Does the company have a certification verification process online like GIA and EGL? That is one way you could check, I have not heard of that lab so I am not aware of its procedures.

I don't think they do, but perhaps someone on here than verify that.

 

[LD]

Not sure if this helps but:-

- If the stones were examined one after the other, it's possible to have consecutive numbers on the reports.
- The ink on the paper might just indicate a different printer was used (again not something I would worry about).
- I don't know if all the Certificates are embossed or not. Here's a copy of one (second on the page) and it has a telephone number at the bottom so you could ring them maybe? http://www.gemselect.com/help/gemstone-certificate.php Do yours look like this? Interestingly, I can't see the embossed mark on this one!

Is it the BGL featured in the link or is it the Burapha University Gemological Lab? I've read on another forum that they test also. Their information is:

Burapha University
169 Long-Hard Bangsaen Road, Tambon Saensook,
Amphur Muang, Chonburi 20131, Thailand.
Tel : 66-38-745900 ext. 1017, 1027 (International Relations Office)
Fax : 66-38-390047 (International Relations Office)
Email : [email protected]
http://www.buu.ac.th
here is the e-mail: [email protected]

However, it may be that they're not testing gems anymore as I can't get the link to work (and I also couldn't get the link to work on the BGL site which worried me a bit).

 

[LD]

I found this also and you can clearly see the embossing on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/BGL-Burapha-Gemologi ... 0434861890

 

[colorluvr]

It's the same looking cert as the one you linked that had the picture of the stone that doesn't show embossing, but with no picture.... my others all look like the sample with the embossing...same info on both.

 

[colorluvr]

This is the email conversations with this seller over the past week. I initially requested certs on four of the stones with a legitimate lab, not in house or lab I had never heard of - this is the first response:

"hello
I can get cert from BGL but i have to take time maybe 2 weeks because where i live is away from this lab .(because just move out of town )
i can get other lab which can be obtained cert within a few days. but i think you dont want unknown lab.

seem to inconvenient to you.
and you are concerned about stones that you bid on my acution.
another solution. I can guarantee you can have these stone certified anywhere or find someone who get used to being in gemstone business they can know straight away (with trained eye ) these are all natural 100%.
pls be confident with our stones

Or you can wait from BGL that take to 2 weeks ?
thanks "

This is my response:

"what lab can you get a cert from in a few days? I am familiar with several Thai labs. Please let me know the name of the lab that you can get cert from in a couple of days and I will let you know asap"

Their response:
"hello. the lab near my location is GSIL which this lab
established before i live here but seems not familiar to you becuase they issue for tourists who visit around border. i am only one who does ebay here .
pls advise
thanks.

My response:
"I know someone who can check the stones for me here in the US, but I will have to mail them (or it will cost me a LOT of money to get them checked if I do it local). I will need two weeks time to get them mailed and checked out and mailed back to me. If you will give me two weeks from date of receipt to return if they are not as advertised, then I will accept them without certs. Remember I requested FedEx delivery."

Their response: (btw, my last message went out early Sat morning and I got this response back shortly thereafter)
"hello - just letting you know fortunately i found someone who went to town and he did bring stones to BGL now i am waiting him to get stones with certs for me i will update you when i have got them
regards

I got this response on Wed (I had to send them them $80 for the four certs prior to shipping)
"Hello.
They were sent already.
Fedex Tracking number is XXXXXXXX (I got a real tracking number)
Regards,

The gems arrived this morning.

Any additional feelings on this???

 

[colorluvr]

FYI

I'm sending the stones (and bogus certs) back on Monday - I hope I get a refund without a hassle. I let the seller know, but of course, no response as of yet. I'll probably be out the cost of the certs, but there isn't much I can do about that now.

I was told my another gemstone seller that if the BGL cert doesn't have a "pressed" seal (and these didn't) then the cert is not real. If anyone knows this to be incorrect (ie, the cert can be real without a pressed seal) please let me and the others on PS know.

thanks.

 

[T L]

Not sure if this helps but:-

- If the stones were examined one after the other, it's possible to have consecutive numbers on the reports.
- The ink on the paper might just indicate a different printer was used (again not something I would worry about).
- I don't know if all the Certificates are embossed or not. Here's a copy of one (second on the page) and it has a telephone number at the bottom so you could ring them maybe? http://www.gemselect.com/help/gemstone-certificate.php Do yours look like this? Interestingly, I can't see the embossed mark on this one!

Is it the BGL featured in the link or is it the Burapha University Gemological Lab? I've read on another forum that they test also. Their information is:

Burapha University
169 Long-Hard Bangsaen Road, Tambon Saensook,
Amphur Muang, Chonburi 20131, Thailand.
Tel : 66-38-745900 ext. 1017, 1027 (International Relations Office)
Fax : 66-38-390047 (International Relations Office)
Email : [email protected]
http://www.buu.ac.th
here is the e-mail: [email protected]

However, it may be that they're not testing gems anymore as I can't get the link to work (and I also couldn't get the link to work on the BGL site which worried me a bit).

That's one of the reasons I won't touch BGL certs anymore. The website is no longer available, and it's easy to forge certificates.

 

[colorluvr]

Interesting turn of email events last night - this has to be the strangest ebay experience I've had to date.

I sent the ebay seller a message telling her that the stones would be in Monday's mail and that if I didn't get a quick refund I would report her to ebay/paypal for sending bogus certs.

I got an email back from her once again assuring me that the stones were real, but that I could return the stones for a full refund for any reason, and she didn't know about the certs being fake and she sent me her return address.

About 5 minutes later, I got another email from her telling me that she would "challenge me" to have them checked by someone and in the mean time she would refund me my full expense (including the expense for the certs) minus the $40 I spent for shipping. She said she would "gift me" the stones and refund me, but to please have the stones checked and to let her know what I found out. She said she wanted my return business and to please let her know what I found out about the stones.... so right now I have the stones AND a refund.

I told her I would agree to that if I got the refund last night - which I did

After 5 minutes after I got the refund she asked me if I could, would I please consider giving her back part of the money if I found out that the stones were real, but if I didn't she would understand. I responded that if the stones indeed checked out to be as they were advertised in the auction, I would send her the amount of the auction price for the stones, as I was not out to get something for nothing or to cheat her - I just wanted to cover myself.

Soooooo, I'm sending the certs off Monday to someone who can verify if they are in fact as advertised. They aren't any sapphires or stones that would take an expensive lab to verify, so we'll see what happens.

I'm off of here for a couple of weeks, but I'll definitely let you guys know what I find out......

TL, I agree about the BGL lab from unknown sellers - this has once again been a learning experience for me... and no more "inexpensive stones from unknown sellers" even if they have certs and seem to be a decent price.....

 

[chrono]

A very interesting experience and it sounds like the vendor seems honest and is trying to run a fair business. I hope everything turns out well for both parties.

 

[T L]

I did some research about Burapha and was told by a reliable source that this is the website and the contact information for BGL is at the bottom of this webpage.

http://www.chanthaburi.buu.ac.th/webeng/about.html

Unfortunately, the reliable source told me that the only way to verify the report is to call the university on that page. Although Burapha has a good reputation, if a lab report is so difficult to verify, then I wouldn't bother with it. I personally do not want to call Thailand to verify my report (can the person on the other end of the phone line even speak English??), and I would prefer an online verification system. Burapha doesn't do lab reports to make money, so apparently their web resources are nill, and the above webpage above is an example of that.

If someone has any information to refute what I said above, please do so. I'm just coming to my own conclusions in part based on what the source told me.

 

[morecarats]

I did some research about Burapha and was told by a reliable source that this is the website and the contact information for BGL is at the bottom of this webpage.

http://www.chanthaburi.buu.ac.th/webeng/about.html

Unfortunately, the reliable source told me that the only way to verify the report is to call the university on that page. Although Burapha has a good reputation, if a lab report is so difficult to verify, then I wouldn't bother with it. I personally do not want to call Thailand to verify my report (can the person on the other end of the phone line even speak English??), and I would prefer an online verification system. Burapha doesn't do lab reports to make money, so apparently their web resources are nill, and the above webpage above is an example of that.

If someone has any information to refute what I said above, please do so. I'm just coming to my own conclusions in part based on what the source told me.

I'm sorry, but I think your source is not reliable (though usually gemology online is a good source). The Burapha Gemological Lab is a private lab run as a profit-making business, with no association with the university (though one or more of the owners or staff may be associated with the university). You'll note that the lab is not called the Burapha University Gemological Lab.

 

[T L]

I did not obtain my information from GO, but another gemological forum, which I'm not allowed to mention here. Do you know the best way to verify a BGL report?

MC,
Don't be sorry, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this issue with BGL and verification. What is frustrating is that I remember BGL had a website, or a webpage, delineating the lab, but now it's gone.

 

[morecarats]

The BGL reports include a phone number that you can call to verify the report.

I've dealt with BGL on and off for some years and to my knowledge they never had a webpage. Some of the dealers who offer BGL reports provide some information about the lab. BGL mainly serves the weekend gem market in Chanthaburi for buyers who need an independent opinion before they close a deal. The more professional dealers in Thailand tend to offer AIGS, GIA or GIT reports to their customers.

 

[chrono]

It’s great that BGL has a telephone number to call but I’m not sure if it is convenient for those overseas who want to verify an inexpensive gemstone. Well, with the international calling cards these days, maybe it’s not too bad.