Need help with 2 round cuts for purchase tomorrow

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 12/18/2009 8:22:13 PM
Author: jimand
Thanks. The manager just told me 100% guarantee, no questions asked, They''ve been in business over 100 years,
Stellar rep. I''m going with the E-VS2.

Guarantee of what? Where is the fire? For such an important decision I''d be doing extensive comparison shopping. For rounds noone here will be able to give you a definitive answer without an Idealscope image as to how good the cut is but at least with the numbers we can tell you which stones to exclude.

Have you considered an online vendor and viewing in person with an appraisor?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Why are you in such a rush??

(that is rhetorical no need to give details

)

I know you probably have plan to propose but really, this is rushed it seems. This is a LOT of money and you are not getting the right information to make sure it is a good purchase.

Oh well, this is how 99% of the diamond buying public does it I guess.

 

[jimand]

Guarantee if I am not satisfied. The store appraiser is getting the specs tomorrow.
They will call and I will submit to the forum. If I go ahead. I will have it appraised independently.
If I am not satisfied, I will work with the store to get another stone.

Buying online and having independently appraised is a great suggestion. If I had
more time I would strongly consider it. I do appreciate the advice.

 

[jimand]

The information I seem to be missing is:

- A post-2006 GIA certificate with Cut grading.
- IdealScope pics.


In an ideal world all sellers would provide this.

I remember when I bought my first high end flamenco guitar.
I had never played a great guitar, so all the high end instruments
seemed great. I didn''t have the background to judge the differences.

 

[jet2ks]

Find an appraiser with a Sarin or Helium scanner and they will be able to get you all the angles. There are still some that do it by hand, but a scanner is easier.

Date: 12/18/2009 9:42:02 PM
Author: jimand

I remember when I bought my first high end flamenco guitar.
I had never played a great guitar, so all the high end instruments
seemed great. I didn't have the background to judge the differences.

And yet you are doing the same thing with a diamond. There are many here who have more experience to help you judge the differences and make sure you have a great diamond, but you are forging ahead without heeding any of the advice. I have to ask, what happened with that first guitar? Were you as happy with it once you were able to judge the differences, or did you upgrade? Do you want to do that with a diamond?

 

[jimand]

I am forging ahead because of a time constraint and trying to make the best decision
with the information I have available.

The store is having their appraiser use a Sarin scanner on it today.
They will call with the statistics later today. What are the acceptable parameters
I should be considering deal breakers? I will let them know I need to research
the results and send to this thread, but it would be helpful to know what I am looking
for in case there are no responses to my post.

thanks,
-jim

 

[jimand]

OK, I got the Sarin report from the appraisal the store did this morning.
Is the Cut Grade a problem?


Shape: Round
Weight: 1.260
Clarity Grade: VS2
Color Grade : E
Estimated GIA Cut Grade: Very Good
Diameter (mm): (6.88 - 6.97) 6.93
Depth (mm): 4.26
Total Depth (%): 61.4
Table Size (%): 60
Star Length: (%) : 55
Lower Halves (%): 80
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Crown Height (%): 14.0
Pavilion Depth (%): 43.5
Girdle Thickness(%): 4.0
Girdle Minimum: 1.30
Girdle Maximum: 2.81
Cutlet Size (%): 0.5
Polish Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint


I can attached the report if anyone would like to see it.
Comments/doubt/feedback much appreciated.

-jim

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 12/19/2009 2:56:21 PM
Author: jimand
OK, I got the Sarin report from the appraisal the store did this morning.
Is the Cut Grade a problem?


Shape: Round
Weight: 1.260
Clarity Grade: VS2
Color Grade : E
Estimated GIA Cut Grade: Very Good
Diameter (mm): (6.88 - 6.97) 6.93
Depth (mm): 4.26
Total Depth (%): 61.4
Table Size (%): 60
Star Length: (%) : 55
Lower Halves (%): 80
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Crown Height (%): 14.0
Pavilion Depth (%): 43.5
Girdle Thickness(%): 4.0
Girdle Minimum: 1.30
Girdle Maximum: 2.81
Cutlet Size (%): 0.5
Polish Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint


I can attached the report if anyone would like to see it.
Comments/doubt/feedback much appreciated.

-jim

It is not ideally cut for sure. It scores a 3.1 on the HCA, worth buying only if the price is right. It will not be a *great* diamond. You can do better. What is the price again? ETA This matters because if you don't care about cut, then at least we can help you make sure you are paying fair market value.

These angles look like estimates to me, a sarin would give exact values. Where did they some from??

 

[jimand]

Price is 10,300 with platinum solitaire setting. They didn''t break it down between
stone and setting.

They said the appraiser used a Sarin machine. Here is the verbal description from the
store''s appraiser:


Attached is the Sarin report for the 1.26 carat round E/VS-2 diamond. The GIA cut grade assigned is Very Good. I want to point out a couple of small variances in proportion readouts. The table percentage measures 60% on the Sarin and 59% on the GIA report. Also, the depth percentage measures 61.4% on the Sarin report and 61.6% on the GIA report. This is due to small variances in machine calibration and is accepted in the trade. The machine measures to the hundredth of a millimeter, smaller than the thickness of a hair, and rounds up or down for a final readout. Our Sarin machine measures the table as 59.5%, thus rounding it up to 60%. Whereas the GIA machine measured below 59.5%, thus rounding down to 59%. This is a difference of 1/100th of one millimeter.

 

[jimand]

What are the crown and pavilion numbers I should be looking for? I can try going on James
Allen or Blue Nile and ordering something with a 30-day guarantee, have it appraised,
and send it back if it is unfavorable.

Or I could tell the store I am working with the required specification, for example,
GIA Excellent cut with certain crown/pavilion parameters if I knew what these should be.

I''m a total newbie, but for 10K, should I expect an Ideal/Excellent cut?

 

[BobR]

I think the reason for the estimate cut grade as only VG is because the polish grade is only good. From previous comments I''ve seen 35/41 could be good or not so good and needs an IS to check for leakage. (Not sure if the 4% girdle is a little thick too!)

Date: 12/19/2009 3:54:17 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 12/19/2009 2:56:21 PM
Author: jimand
OK, I got the Sarin report from the appraisal the store did this morning.
Is the Cut Grade a problem?


Shape: Round
Weight: 1.260
Clarity Grade: VS2
Color Grade : E
Estimated GIA Cut Grade: Very Good
Diameter (mm): (6.88 - 6.97) 6.93
Depth (mm): 4.26
Total Depth (%): 61.4
Table Size (%): 60
Star Length: (%) : 55
Lower Halves (%): 80
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Crown Height (%): 14.0
Pavilion Depth (%): 43.5
Girdle Thickness(%): 4.0
Girdle Minimum: 1.30
Girdle Maximum: 2.81
Cutlet Size (%): 0.5
Polish Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint


I can attached the report if anyone would like to see it.
Comments/doubt/feedback much appreciated.

-jim

It is not ideally cut for sure. It scores a 3.1 on the HCA, worth buying only if the price is right. It will not be a *great* diamond. You can do better. What is the price again? ETA This matters because if you don''t care about cut, then at least we can help you make sure you are paying fair market value.

These angles look like estimates to me, a sarin would give exact values. Where did they some from??

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 12/19/2009 4:20:34 PM
Author: BobR
I think the reason for the estimate cut grade as only VG is because the polish grade is only good. From previous comments I've seen 35/41 could be good or not so good and needs an IS to check for leakage. (Not sure if the 4% girdle is a little thick too!)

You are right on, Bob. Polish & Symmetry have to be VG or Ex in order to receive an Excellent cut grade, in addition to the proportions. 35/41 is what we would call a borderline steep/deep and could show leakage. That combo with a smaller table is sometimes OK, but I'm not a fan of that angle combo and a 59 or 60 table.

Here is some good guidelines when looking for a well cut round.

depth - 60 - 62%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

From expert John Pollard.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 12/19/2009 4:14:33 PM
Author: jimand
What are the crown and pavilion numbers I should be looking for? I can try going on James
Allen or Blue Nile and ordering something with a 30-day guarantee, have it appraised,
and send it back if it is unfavorable.

Or I could tell the store I am working with the required specification, for example,
GIA Excellent cut with certain crown/pavilion parameters if I knew what these should be.

I'm a total newbie, but for 10K, should I expect an Ideal/Excellent cut?

Jim, I do think you can do much better for your money and have a super ideal diamond. Actually, you have options much broader than JA and BN. Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds also have excellent return policies, as does Good Old Gold. I actually prefer the latter three vendors because of their additional policies, such a buy back, upgrade, and because the diamonds are in house and come with all the information you could possibly want. All thre have impeccable reputations on PS, as does JA. In a heart beat I would buy from any of them.

Here are some awesome diamonds you can get for well under 10k. I looked in the G/H color range because initially you were looking in that range as well as for the E that you are presently considering. All these diamonds are graded by AGS and have top light performance.

Any of these at Whiteflash could work for you, all are G or H VS2 or SI1
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Compare_Diamonds.aspx?idnos=2219629,2228618,2145426,2199902,2219627

A nice G VS2 at GOG
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6403/

Brian Gavin Diamonds also has a number of suitable diamonds, you will need to call about them since their website is not up yet, but they would all be killer:
AGS-10237605 Brian Gavin H&A 1.234 G VS2 56.9 60.6 $9,375.00
AGS-1040381680029 Brian Gavin H&A 1.227 G SI1 56.6 61.5 $7,643.00
AGS-1040375560020 Brian Gavin H&A 1.205 G SI2 56.2 61.3 $6,128 SOLD
AGS-1040383970005 Brian Gavin H&A 1.290 H SI1 57.2 61.5 $7,685.00
AGS-1040383970004 Brian Gavin H&A 1.254 H VS2 56.2 61.5 $7,960.00
AGS-1040381680025 Brian Gavin H&A 1.215 H SI1 56.0 61.7 $7,208.00
AGS-1040381680024 Brian Gavin H&A 1.212 H VS2 55.9 61.6 $7,705.00

JA doesn't have anything really suitable right now, though you could search through their non H&A inventory for specs that match the ones jet2Ks posted.

Or you can ask your jeweler to bring in something suitable.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 12/19/2009 4:20:34 PM
Author: BobR
I think the reason for the estimate cut grade as only VG is because the polish grade is only good. From previous comments I''ve seen 35/41 could be good or not so good and needs an IS to check for leakage. (Not sure if the 4% girdle is a little thick too!)

Yes, I agree, but the angles are also not the best as Jet piointed out. I am all for going lower on polish and symm within reason, since it is not noticable to the eye.