Need Help---Big Purchase

[Rhino]

Agreed @Ada Diamonds CEO. Apologies if I was not clear ... it is HPHT and not CVD.

 

[yssie]

I agree that we don't know what's coming. I could be wrong!

That's why I, as a consumer, always recommend making expensive purchases only from vendors with satisfactory (whatever that means to that consumer) upgrade/trade-in/buyback policies - and getting those policies in writing prior to purchase. That way I'm protected from market volatility that I have no control over or insight into. I apologise for not stating this in my original post - that was a shortsighted omission.

 

[xxxxxx]

@Ada Diamonds CEO where can you identify the grower on the certificate?

 

[Ada Diamonds CEO]

@Ada Diamonds CEO where can you identify the grower on the certificate?

Unfortunately, you can't tell from the cert.

To make matters worse, the average wholesaler of lab diamonds probably doesn't know who grew the lab diamonds they own.

Why? There's a fair amount of selling and reselling in the rapidly growing number of wholesalers of lab diamonds, and there's now a few distributed online marketplaces for lab diamonds.

Thus, it takes long standing direct relationships with growers to know who produced what stones (or FTIR analysis of the stone in question and an encyclopedic knowledge of the defects typically associated with a grower).

To further complicate the situation, I regularly see HPHT grown stones certified as 'CVD grown' diamonds, and sometimes see vice versa.

To even further complicate, some HPHT growers are partnering/JVing with CVD growers, so a corporation that used to sell just one method sells both methods now.

Eventually, the market will consolidate considerably with far more transparent/shorter supply chains, but that process will take years, not months.

 

[xxxxxx]

Thank you for the detailed answer.

I was under the impression. That with a HPHT diamond you could forego stria (which could lead to a less crisp diamond).
But now I have seen HPHT diamonds with the “BLUE Nuance” under comments and you also touched on them a few posts ago.

But what is so unattractive about the blue nuance?
Here a video from an H color HPHT Blue nuanced Diamond

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/dia-video-bucket/video/63415-LG.html

 

[kgizo]

I like the 4.5ct.

Hi guys,
So my jeweller has the 4.50 in possession and I have seen a video of it outside and in sunlight and I do not see the blue tinge, is there a test to see if it's type IIa?

I am also now conflicted because there is this diamond and it is larger... dont know what to do, but I am told it doesn't have the hearts and arrow effect of the 4.5?

DiaCam360 Scan - RB503

ROUND BRILLIANT, D, 5.03 Carats, VS 2, IGI

up.diacam360.com

VS

4.51ct E VS2 Ideal Cut Lab Grown Diamond

This absolute stunner arrived today. We couldn't have asked for better. Diamond Details Measurements 10.62 x 10.66 x 6.57mm Cut Ideal Polish Ex Symmetry Ex Fluorescence None Culet none Report IGI Table 55.5% Depth 61.7%

www.augustvintageinc.net

please let me know thoughts asap! as the price difference is slight

 

[OoohShiny]

Thank you for the detailed answer.

I was under the impression. That with a HPHT diamond you could forego stria (which could lead to a less crisp diamond).
But now I have seen HPHT diamonds with the “BLUE Nuance” under comments and you also touched on them a few posts ago.

But what is so unattractive about the blue nuance?
Here a video from an H color HPHT Blue nuanced Diamond

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/dia-video-bucket/video/63415-LG.html

I really can't see any blue in that stone, but then I have got my screen on 'evening' settings (with the blue turned down in an attempt to disrupt my serotonin levels less than usual ).

It looks super-'crisp' faceting-wise, though!

John Pollard posted a picture of an 'ultra-pure', 'whiter than D' stone with even less Nitrogen in it than usual IIRC - that looked bluer than usual, which I thought was cool! (I want one but I fear they are, er, expensive... lol)

 

[Ada Diamonds CEO]

But what is so unattractive about the blue nuance?

Another short question that requires a long answer

First off, a strong warning to PSers that there are many lab diamonds on the market today that have *undisclosed* blue nuance - it's not mentioned on the grading cert from IGI, GCAL, or GIA, not really apparent in a video, but the diamond absolutely has blue nuance, even to the untrained eye.

Five minutes ago I inspected a 3.05 F VS1 cushion that came from the same grower as at least one of the diamonds discussed in this thread. No mention of blue nuance on the cert and the stone looked okay from the video, but the diamond absolutely has blue nuance upon inspection, which was confirmed as the stone had medium orange phosphorescence.

I'll try to make time to get a video of said diamond next to a similar stone that passes our QC standards before I return it to the grower.

____________

Gemologically, 'blue nuance' simply means that the diamond is a (weak) type IIb diamond, with a faint amount of boron in the crystal (measured in parts per billion).

What's the difference between type IIa and type IIb and why does that matter?

• Type I diamond: crystals of carbon that contain substantial amounts of nitrogen in the crystal. ~98% of mined diamonds are type I.
• Type IIa diamond: the highest purity crystals of carbon, with extremely low levels of defects such as nitrogen, boron, etc. Less than 2% of natural diamonds are type IIa. Most CVD grown diamonds are type IIa.
• Type IIb diamond: crystals of carbon that contain boron in the crystal structure. Extremely rare in nature, less than 0.1% of all diamonds.

Type IIb diamonds differ from type I and type IIa diamonds in a few different properties:

• They are electrically conductive (and may test as moissanite on a cheap tester)
• They are gray or blue in coloration, instead of yellow or brown in coloration (to oversimplify)
• They phosphoresce / glow in the dark (again, oversimplifying)

_____________

What's unattractive about type IIb diamonds? Categorically, nothing!

Just as a diamond with a lot of nitrogen can be a beautiful fancy yellow diamond, a diamond with a lot of boron in it can be a beautiful blue diamond.

My wife and I chose to use type IIb lab diamonds instead of colorless lab diamonds for her engagement ring and wedding bands, as they're paired with Ceylon sapphire. We evaluated various saturations from faint blue to fancy intense blue before deciding that fancy light blue was the right fit for us.

But what about that middle ground between D color and fancy blues?

That's the blue nuance netherworld, where the diamond just looks... unnatural... with a color palette of grays and blues instead of the more natural color palette of colorless -> warmth as you migrate from colorless to near colorless to faint yellow.

Unlike striations from stopping/starting CVD growth, there's absolutely nothing wrong with blue nuance *IF* you know you are buying a type IIb diamond that has a blue nuance/tinge/palette and that's appealing to you/your partner.

I will say though, if you choose to buy a lab diamond with blue nuance, be prepared to answer questions like "huh, why's it look blue?" from your friends/family/coworkers.

So bottom line, my problem with blue nuance is that it's not being identified by grading organizations, and it's being sold to unsuspecting clients, undisclosed.

 

[xxxxxx]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

 

[OoohShiny]

Thanks for the detailed response, Jason

So bottom line, my problem with blue nuance is that it's not being identified by grading organizations, and it's being sold to unsuspecting clients, undisclosed.

If I may be provocative is this situation any different to the brown/yellow/grey undertone aspects of Mined diamonds and their grading reports?

 

[Ada Diamonds CEO]

If I may be provocative is this situation any different to the brown/yellow/grey undertone aspects of Mined diamonds and their grading reports?

I'd say that's a matter of opinion. IMHO, yes it's quite different.

 

[kris01vb]

Ah, cool, excellent stuff

You are in safe hands with Jon!

I am no expert so I will have to be annoying and ask @Rhino/Jon if he's able to confirm why the picture and video seem to show different table reflection sizes in the pavilion - I am guessing it is just something to do with distance from the lens of the camera, but I may well also be totally wrong lol

Regardless of the technicalities and my paranoia, I think it will look great - the HCA score suggests the angles will be just fine, the small table should make it excellent for giving off coloured fire, and I really can't see any inclusions in the picture or the video, so I'm sure it will be totally eye-clean in real life.

It is difficult to find comparator stones or alternative options at this size, as there really aren't that many out there (either Mined or MMD) but if you know this one will be good, there's not really a need to consider other options!


As mentioned, make sure you are happy with the Returns and Upgrade policies (from wherever one purchases!).

One must also consider that the MMD market is very new, the secondhand market is even newer, and there have been postulations that say MMD will drop vastly in price due to the fact they can be produced, effectively, as desired, with no limitations such as those found with Mined stones.

Are those assertions true? We don't know, and if you do, pass me that crystal ball, I have six numbers I need to check for next week... lol.

On that basis, we must be prepared to write off all monies 'invested' into an MMD stone.

Mined stones have historically acted as a 'store of value' (rather than an 'investment') and enabled owners to get 10-80% of their purchase value back when sold (depending on speed of sale required, market demand, whether or not a 'Buy Back' agreement is in place...) but MMDs are so new that we don't know if 4ct rocks will be churned out at $1k a piece in a couple of years (I can dream ) or whether they will remain difficult/slow/expensive to grow.

If the former, anything bought now might be 'worthless' in a few years compared to the current purchase prices, but as long as we purchase in full knowledge that this might be the case, and are prepared to take that hit because it is a stone that we will wear for the rest of our lives (all being well) and represents more than just a financial investment, that is the best we can do

And even if things do drop in value over time, what is the value we have had out of the enjoyment of having/using them? We all know cars and computers and phones (and anything else) depreciates with time, but we buy them and use them and enjoy them, and any loss in value is offset against that pleasure

So be an informed purchaser, make your decisions with the full facts at hand, and know that you are making the best choice you can with the information you have!

I have previous purchased a few lab grown diamonds that I’m very happy with. That was just a year ago, and as expected lab grown diamond or idea are dropping quickly. I’m able to find prices from site to site that are all IGI cert and same qualities, etc…..but from the lowest price to the highest it’s like 4 times as much!!! What am I missing? I can’t imagine if both were same size, color, clarity (bath eye clean) cut, symmetry etc….what the HUGE price difference?

 

[kathness]

wow! Just read this thread! @yssie made some very sound advice! Did the op bought the 40k lab diamond?

There could be many reasons but my guess is that there is more supply in the market.