Need expert knowledge of historic diamond values

[fudgestripecookays]

Hello--

I'm new here, and I need everyone's help for a novel I'm writing (you'll get credit too! ). This novel is about a real silent film actress. She was given a ring for her engagement, a marquise diamond, and the approximate price in 1929 dollars (pre-crash) was around $10,000.

Considering inflation, cut, color, carat weight, etc. does anyone have any ideas of the number of carats I might be able to say this ring was? I know nothing about diamonds other than that they're pretty and they sparkle.

Can anyone provide any assistance? Thanks in advance!
FSC

 

[diagem]

Hi FSC,
Can't help you much although my educated guess would be given the fact it would probably be a high quality Diamond, I would dare estimate an approx 10 carat rock. But that's just my guess...

I will refer you to a book which can perhaps point you towards a better understanding on the proportions.

CARTIER Jewelers Extraordinaire by Hans Nadelhoffer (1984 first edition).

http://www.amazon.com/Cartier-Jewelers-Extraordinary-Hans-Nadelhoffer/dp/0810907704

Chapter 18 is called "The great transactions", it's a ten page chronicle of great Cartier transactions spanning over a period including the year you are looking for.

Hope it helps,

 

[diagem]

Now you got me rolling...
Another important point of interest which can focus you is a book called Tiffany Diamonds by John Loring (2005).
Maybe even better than the Cartier book as far as financial info.

http://www.amazon.com/Tiffany-Diamonds-John-Loring/dp/0810959372

A lot of Historic financial numbers starting at around page 47.

Happy reading...

 

[fudgestripecookays]

Ooh! Great suggestions, DiaGem!

Thanks very much!

 

[Gypsy]

That's going to be one BIG ring.

 

[fudgestripecookays]

Well, she WAS a movie star.

 

[Travelgal]

Omg. I am dying to see a picture. Whatever it is sounds fabulous.

 

[Gypsy]

Well, using this: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=10000&year1=1929&year2=2014

1000 in 1929 is the equivalent to $139,094.74 in 2014.

So... that's a lot of ring. And diamond were relatively cheap back then.

I suggest you make it a designer ring.

Cartier and Van Cleef and Arps were around back then. And a large, expensive ring will likely have come through one of the large jewelry houses.

http://www.langantiques.com/university/index.php/Art_Deco_Era_Jewelry

1929 is, as you are aware, when the stock market crashed.

I personally would do Cartier.

This diamond necklace is from Cartier and from 1929 for example: http://www.langantiques.com/products/item/90-1-2888 This beauty only cost $2,650 in 1929. And it has the original paper work.

I think you can use that paper in your story. Your ring would likely have had a sales receipt on similar paper.

So the ring should be platinum.

Are you sure it had to cost 10K? That might be unrealistic. Maybe 5K? That's still a HUGE and gorgeous ring.

From what I understand, the diamond mines back then did not produce high color stones as a general rule. That necklace's center stone is graded a K by modern standards.

 

[Gypsy]

Other advice:
This diamond ring is similar to what I'd expect of the time period: https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/339-ct-e-internally-flawless-antique-marquise-diamond-ring/id-j_69206/ It is an E. Gorgeous Shield sidestones.

Langs is located here in San Francisco and they are very well regarded. You can call them about this ring and ask them what decade they would put it. If it is early enough for you, this one might be a nice style to consider for your ring:

This one is from the 1930's: https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/art-deco-540-carat-marquise-diamond-ring/id-j_98309/ It's an O color. ANd high clarity. And huge. I personally wouldn't make yours this tinted. Very deco setting.


This one is an edwardian setting (before the Art Deco period, and you can see the difference in style) and it is from 1915. https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/elegant-unique-edwardian-era-243-carat-antique-marquise-cut-engagement-ring/id-j_166238/ But it is a G-H color.

So both very high and very low colors were available. It's just a matter of if high color was available in large sizes like 5 carats.

You can have it said that the buyer custom commissioned the piece and asked for a very white stone if you want to make it high color E or F for example. And that would have cost more... so that might work for your narrative.


This one is from 1910-1920 and it's high color as well: http://www.langantiques.com/products/item/10-1-6276

https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/art-deco-141-carat-marquise-diamond-engagement-ring/id-j_72361/ This is a very deco ring

 

[Gypsy]

Oh... this is interesting:
http://www.langantiques.com/university/index.php/Marquise_

So you can chose if your ring is going to have an open or closed culet since it is right at the cusp. From Cartier I'd probably go with a closed culet as they would have been on the cutting edge (lol) of cutting.

AND THIS!! http://www.langantiques.com/products/item/10-1-5631 Cartier 1920's -1930's marquise ring. Notice the GIA color grading is a J.
It is signed and numbered. So I would sign and number yours as well. AND it has a closed culet!

Platinum ring. I'd probably still do baguettes as a sidestone, though maybe straight ones. And have it be a three stone. Or you can go with a solitaire with pave on the basket like this one here.

Pertty cool!

I would DEFINITELY call Lang's if I were you.

 

[Gypsy]

Another Cartier ring from that period: http://geogallery.si.edu/index.php/en/1001765/marquise-diamond-ring HUGE and donated to the Smithsonian. That does not look high color. Setting is awesome.

This is the setting close up:

 

[Gypsy]

If you aren't married to a marquise, this is what I'd recommend.

Cartier asschers are famous and highly sought after.
Asscher cut diamond engagement ring made by Cartier in 1922. Weight 5.55 carats:
http://indulgy.ccio.co/jE/d3/2C/262827328223669901HJajS8iLc.jpg \

It is a classic and would definitely have been worthy of a screen star. I'm sure you can find out color/clarity information on it.

There's also this one:
http://www.betteridge.com/cartier-8.06-carat-asscher-cut-diamond-ring/p/7771/ You could use your artistic license to make it into a ring for her. E VVS2. And probably from the same period.

THIS ring would have believably cost a ton in 1929.
Shape: Asscher
Measurements: 12.55 x 11.72 x 7.03 mm
Carat Weight: 8.06 carat
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: VVS2
Fluorescence: None


And you can call Betterbridge and inquire as to any additional details. But I think it would be a good fit for the era/price range/etc.

This would be one hell of a ring. And period perfect.

 

[fudgestripecookays]

Thanks, everybody!

So much good info. Indeed it was a marquise, and I was thinking probably platinum, but now I'll have to rewrite the scene (and make it better, of course) to do the special order thing.

I had hoped the pic of them together showing off the ring would be out there when I googled, but no such luck.

Thanks, y'all!

 

[Circe]

Who was the actress, if you don't mind disclosing? I love a good challenge to my google-fu ....

 

[Gypsy]

Ahhh... so this is based on a real actress. Who actually had a marquise. This isn't pure fiction then that you can do whatever you want. Gotcha. That's important information.

 

[John P]

Hey Gypsy, I was truly enjoying your series of posts. Perhaps you should write a novel?

 

[Circe]

Ahhh... so this is based on a real actress. Who actually had a marquise. This isn't pure fiction then that you can do whatever you want. Gotcha. That's important information.

And let it be clear - I definitely wasn't critiquing your approach (I was enjoying it immensely, actually). But some preliminary googling brought up a potential candidate, and I wanted to be sure I had the right one before I delved more deeply. I think John's right ... you should put your skills to use! I would read the hell out of the novel that could result from the kind of research you were demonstrating. I've actually started threads in hangout searching for good fiction set in the wonderful world 'o jewelry ....

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Ahhh... so this is based on a real actress. Who actually had a marquise. This isn't pure fiction then that you can do whatever you want. Gotcha. That's important information.

And let it be clear - I definitely wasn't critiquing your approach (I was enjoying it immensely, actually). But some preliminary googling brought up a potential candidate, and I wanted to be sure I had the right one before I delved more deeply. I think John's right ... you should put your skills to use! I would read the hell out of the novel that could result from the kind of research you were demonstrating. I've actually started threads in hangout searching for good fiction set in the wonderful world 'o jewelry ....

A really good read for anyone interested in diamonds is Mathew Hart's 'Diamond: Journey to the Heart of an Obsession'
It's not a novel, but it reads like one!

 

[kenny]

Hey Gypsy, I was truly enjoying your series of posts. Perhaps you should write a novel?

What a novel idea.

 

[fudgestripecookays]

All right, all right.

I was trying to be coy (since it's not finished yet-- but I am up to 304 pages on my first draft. Yay!).

It was Clara Bow and it was one of her many "engagements," to the King of Broadway, Harry Richman (famous for "Puttin' on the Ritz"). Using articles of the day was where the $10,000 figure came from. Supposedly, they didn't even get the ring themselves-- Clara's secretary Daisy DeVoe got it for them.

So this is where the challenge comes from. Making the fiction work with the supposed facts.

 

[msop04]

All right, all right.

I was trying to be coy (since it's not finished yet-- but I am up to 304 pages on my first draft. Yay!).

It was Clara Bow and it was one of her many "engagements," to the King of Broadway, Harry Richman (famous for "Puttin' on the Ritz"). Using articles of the day was where the $10,000 figure came from. Supposedly, they didn't even get the ring themselves-- Clara's secretary Daisy DeVoe got it for them.

So this is where the challenge comes from. Making the fiction work with the supposed facts.

I'm LOVING this thread!! [emoji7][emoji122][emoji122][emoji322]