Need another stone – but where to buy?

[Teapuna]

Hi,
I have, through the good advice on this forum, bought a very nice engagement ring and diamond at Whiteflash years ago. Unfortunately, this ring got stolen. Back then , Whiteflash was the place to go for online diamonds. Now I have not had a lot to do with diamonds etc. and chances are, the market has changed and WF is not what it used to be back then. Would you say that WF is still a good place to go, or has it become too expensive because of their success? And which other online retailers would you recommend looking at?
Thanks already in advance.

 

[marymm]

If you are seeking a super-ideal diamond, yes, WF is still a solid company. If you know your diamond specs, in addition to WF I recommend you also check out Brian Gavin Diamonds and High Performance Diamonds (both are super-ideal vendors), so you can compare pricing and inventory.

If you'd like PSer assistance in finding diamond candidates, please post your diamond prereqs and budget.

 

[valenledge]

I’m so sorry to hear about your ring being stolen. Did you have insurance and are looking for a like replacement? Or want to start fresh?

WF has one of the largest inventories of super-ideal MRBs, but as @marymm mentioned, you have so many choices now of vendors offering similar, such as High Performance Diamonds, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Victor Canera, etc. There are also many quality vendors folks would recommend or help you search for other cuts, such as AVCs or Elyque ovals (Distinctive Gems), Quadrex(I think?) from BGD, and more.

Blue Nile and James Allen are also options but you have to do more work evaluating the specs and look of each diamond depending on the cut.

And colored stones is a completely different discussion!

Everyone here is happy to help you if you let us know what you are thinking.

Personally, WF is still the same quality service today as they were when we got engaged years ago.

 

[Teapuna]

Thank you for your replies! Yes, I have looked also at James Allen and BGD, but as you write, I find it more difficult there to evaluate the stones compared to WF. WF has better pictures I think.

Where I am confused is with the term "super ideal" – I thought WF´s "A Cut Above" would already mark the best quality diamonds, but when looking at the cut grade description it only says "ideal" without the "super". Is there anything I have to enter in the search engine to get to the "super" graded ones? And do you think it is necessary to get to that level to get maximum performance in terms of brilliance and fire?

PS:
Unfortunately we had no insurance, it was really a tragedy, as this ring meant a lot for my wife and me... but in the end, it is just a material thing... still it sucks big time

 

[lovedogs]

"Super ideal" is a term that we use on PS to refer to in house ideally cut diamonds (WF a cut above, high performance diamonds crafted by infinity, victor canera in house cuts, etc). So WF is the "super ideal" you've been reading about

 

[valenledge]

This will be a fun journey for the both of you!

All of the vendors mentioned will have top-performing stones - it totally will come down to what your eyes like. All (or most) of the vendors have magnified photos, ideal scopes and ASETs to evaluate cut and light performance, and top customer service where they will give you an honest assessment of each diamond (what spectrum of the graded color scale it’s on, if you can see any inclusions from all angles if that matters to you).

Also one thing I didn’t expect was how my tastes have changed over time! I will always wear an MRB as my engagement ring, but I dream about OECs now and rosecuts and colored stones - or even an MRB cut to a different specification from a different vendor. So you also can totally explore if you want to recreate or try something new.

Have fun, and everyone here is happy to help you if you like.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Just to further clarify the the term "super ideal", it generally refers to diamonds that meet certain criteria above and beyond the strict grade of Ideal on the AGS light performance grading system. Chief among those extra requirements is a very high level of optical precision (also referred to as optical symmetry or 3D symmetry). This is when all the facets of the diamond are precisely aligned in 3 dimensions to optimize the light handling ability of the diamond, and is evident in reflector images. True hearts and arrows patterning is proof of this aspect of cut quality.

Different brands of super ideal are available in the market with sellers offering differing criteria for their particular brand. Sometimes those criteria are not specified or are mutable, or both. We choose to publish our full set of qualifications and specifications so that customers know exactly what they are getting when they buy our brand, and can independently verify each specific quality aspect.

As @lovedogs mentioned, super ideals are usually exclusive, in-house diamonds because they are produced intentionally by very high skill cutters specifically for the merchants offering them. They cost more to produce than ordinary diamonds cut for the broader market, though they may or may not be more expensive for the consumer than diamonds of lesser quality.

 

[sledge]

I just wanted to add that WF is still a “top dog” and provides amazing super ideals. Additionally their inventory is deep and their pricing is very competitive within the super ideal market.

I recommend them quite frequently because they have excellent product, great pricing and superb customer service. Also a very generous upgrade policy.

In regards to your loss, are you aware that most homeowner and renter policies carry a nominal amount of jewelry replacement coverage? While I do have an exclusive policy for my wife’s ring, our home insurance covers up to $5k best I recall. You may want to speak with your agent to find out specific details for your situation. It may not fully cover the loss, but partial coverage is better than a sharp stick in the eye.

For a specific policy, be sure to check with Jewelers Mutual on the new stone/ring.

 

[Teapuna]

Thank you all for your comments! I will post some stones I selected and would be interested in your opinion. If "super ideal" is the best you can get cut wise, I wonder where the differences are if I select only those stones. Sure there will be a difference when comparing them side by side, but over the internet, just by pictures it is pretty hard I guess.

 

[Teapuna]

Here are some stones I like. What do you think?

Diamond | 1.031 ct G SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4289140

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.031 carat G color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4289140

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.078 ct H VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4392247

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.078 carat H color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4392247

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.023 ct F VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4356741

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.023 carat F color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4356741

www.whiteflash.com

1.07 Carat round diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 1.07 carat G color vs2 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

I find it pretty hard to decide. Especially if I should rather go for more clarity or up in colour. Cut wise they seem to be pretty equal.

 

[musicloveranthony]

Super-ideal and ultra-precision are nonsense phrases that we all know what we mean when we say, but that some gem-cutters I know get pretty upset about

 

[valenledge]

So exciting!

For the WF ones, these are super tightly cut, so it will come down to personality of each diamond, plus if there are any personal preferences you like (color-sensitivity, sensitive about certain inclusions and placement, etc.)

One of the tools I love on the WF site is the “compare” shot, which I added all three of your WF super quickly for you: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare/?idnos=4356741,4392247,4289140

I’d recommend this on a desktop/laptop, but you can queue up the videos to play at the same time and see which one catches your eye the best. It really comes down to what your eyes likes best.

A quick look at the diamonds, and I would ask your WF associate to pull them side by side for you - the H has clouds, so you can ask your WF associate if it impacts the diamond’s performance or not compared to the other ones.

The G seems like a very clean SI from the videos, but I noticed there were notes on additional twinning wisps/graining, so again, would ask your WF rep if this changes the diamond’s look.

The F would be my personal preference for color, though there is a tiny black crystal on the table, so you will want to ask your WF associate if it can be seen at different angles, if you care!

It’s important to always remember how zoomed in these images and videos are, so many of these inclusions may not be visible in regular wear.

Other much more experienced folks will jump in but hope that got you started. Will take a peek at the JA stone in a bit.

 

[valenledge]

Oh, I forgot - for JA, I would ask them for any additional images (ideal scope, asets, etc.), along with the grading report. I tried to snap the best face-up look from the video - it looks pretty nice! But the combo of above info will help inform you how close this one is to the WF ones.



And again, it will come down to what you like best!

 

[sledge]

I just started reviewing but immediately ran across a problem with the JA stone. I asked the rep to send the report. Issues at hand:

1. No hearts image.

2. No ideal scope image.

3. Lab report is dated 2019, and 2+ years old. Up to supplier to update, not JA per chat.

4. Stone is possibly not part of the True Heart (TH) collection per chat.

Generally speaking ACA is more tightly cut and a better H&A stone than the JA TH collection. Occasionally they squeeze off a good one. The issue I have is when you are paying H&A prices, you typically want THE best, period. The vendor is certainly subpar to WF and the quality of each stone depends on the specific stone. Also, their trade policy is worse (have to spend 2x the amount, whereas with WF it's simply spend $1 more and trade as you want).

Attaching lab report & copy of chat transcript.

 

[valenledge]

@sledge - that’s wild. Could that mean it’s a return but without an updated cert? I would be surprised if it has been sitting in inventory this long.

@Teapuna - if you are thinking of the possibility of upgrading down the line, WF has an amazing policy (spend $1 more), selection, and customer support. With sledge’s detective skills, you already know that JA lacks the documentation for the one you picked out compared to three WF ones you already have selected. And that’s before the other people here suggest any other great candidates!

 

[sledge]

If the price doesn't push you over, I like the F-VS2. Yeah, it's got a tiny black crystal on the table, but it's hard to see in the hugely magnified videos, so I have zero doubts she will be eye clean to the naked eye.

I love the additional color & clarity bump personally. I bought my wife an H-VS2, and later learned she sees color very easily. Thankfully, she's not bothered by it. But when we upgrade, or if I were to get a "re-do" I would go F+ on color personally. This is definitely our preference.

All the stones have good performance, and amazing images. I actually like the proportions of the H best, but dislike the hazy look under direct spot lighting in the sparkle video. Probably not an issue in real life, but for that reason I might go with the G instead if choosing between the G & H.

Overall my rank for the WF stones are F, G and H although the rank is not solely by color.

 

[sledge]

@sledge - that’s wild. Could that mean it’s a return but without an updated cert? I would be surprised if it has been sitting in inventory this long.

Very doubtful it's been hanging around that long. Someone probably traded it in on a different stone. And it may be okay. But there is a possibility that while under previous ownership damage could have occurred (rather known by the wearer or not) that lowered its clarity grade.

IMO, enough time has passed that a re-grade is deemed appropriate. I'm not against taking a traded in diamond. But I would want a fresh report, and I would be draw the line in the sand and make them provide (at their expense) or I wouldn't buy.

The current buyer deserves the transparency of knowing exactly what they are buying today, not the diamond of 2 years ago, no matter how likely the report wouldn't change.