Need an opinion

[quorky]

First let me say that this is a great forum with a ton of very valuable information.

I am in need of some advice.

Before I started looking I figured that I would be able to get a descent size stone (1.5 carat) with a F/E color and VS clarity for around 10k... Boy was I wrong.

Well after much searching it came down to this diamond:

Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report
Date of Issue: August 23, 2007

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.47 - 7.52 x 4.65 mm
Carat Weight: 1.59
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:
Depth: 62.0 %
Table: 55 %
Crown Angle: 35°
Crown Height: 16 %
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43 %
Star length: 50 %
Lower Half: 80 %

Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: None

Comments: Additional clouds are not shown. Surface graining is not shown.


So with the setting (very plain white gold, which I think I may rethink to platinum) it comes to 10k exactly. Any room to negotiate?

Can someone tell me if this looks good on paper? In person the stone is very beautiful. I think it has a feather but it is not eye noticeable and only from the side if I hold it a few inches from my eyes (jeweler said it will be covered with the prongs).

It has very nice sparkle and fire.

How does the HCA look on it? Cant seem to find a link to the calculator (not able to do a thourough search, since I am at the office).

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for the input...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 9:51:15 AM
Author:quorky
First let me say that this is a great forum with a ton of very valuable information.

I am in need of some advice.

Before I started looking I figured that I would be able to get a descent size stone (1.5 carat) with a F/E color and VS clarity for around 10k... Boy was I wrong.

Well after much searching it came down to this diamond:

Report Type: GIA Diamond Grading Report
Date of Issue: August 23, 2007

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.47 - 7.52 x 4.65 mm
Carat Weight: 1.59
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:
Depth: 62.0 %
Table: 55 %
Crown Angle: 35°
Crown Height: 16 %
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43 %
Star length: 50 %
Lower Half: 80 %

Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: None

Comments: Additional clouds are not shown. Surface graining is not shown.


So with the setting (very plain white gold, which I think I may rethink to platinum) it comes to 10k exactly.

Can someone tell me if this looks good on paper? In person the stone is very beautiful. I think it has a feather but it is not eye noticeable and only from the side if I hold it a few inches from my eyes (jeweler said it will be covered with the prongs).

It has very nice sparkle and fire.

How does the HCA look on it? Cant seem to find a link to the calculator (not able to do a thourough search, since I am at the office).

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for the input...

Welcome!

It looks like a very nice diamond! I would suggest checking it out away from the store lights if possible as that is always a good test to see how a stone will look in everyday lighting.

HCA 1.6 here is a link to it -

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

 

[stone-cold11]

Nothing wrong in its HCA score.

Looks like a pretty good deal for the stone and setting you got there, comparable stone with a cut grade of VG sells for 10.8K. Might want to get it independently appraised, a little too good a deal for me... Something could be wrong, or maybe the store just want to have some liquidity with the current economy. (EDT)

Good Luck.

 

[Ellen]

On paper it seems to have great potential. As Lorelei suggested, look at it in as many lighting situations as possible.

 

[quorky]

Wow, you guys / gals are great...

I will look to look at it in a different light (maybe take it outside if he lets me). He turned off the lights in the room and the only light that was coming into the office was from the open door, which we were sitting next to. At that point the stone was shining very nicely.

What I am wondering is if I can actually knock him down to 9.5k with the plain platinum setting...

The actual lighting condition that I can test the ring in, will depend on the weather tomorrow.

 

[quorky]

Date: 10/29/2008 10:01:49 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Nothing wrong in its HCA score.


Looks like a pretty good deal for the stone and setting you got there, comparable stone with a cut grade of VG sells for 10.8K. Might want to get it independently appraised, a little too good a deal for me... Something could be wrong, or maybe the store just want to have some liquidity with the current economy. (EDT)


Good Luck.

Would a store actually allow me to appraise the diamond prior to purchase?

Can you give me an example of what can be wrong?

He told me he is making about 7% on me. I think he is actually making some more than the 7% he states.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 10:23:06 AM
Author: quorky

Date: 10/29/2008 10:01:49 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Nothing wrong in its HCA score.


Looks like a pretty good deal for the stone and setting you got there, comparable stone with a cut grade of VG sells for 10.8K. Might want to get it independently appraised, a little too good a deal for me... Something could be wrong, or maybe the store just want to have some liquidity with the current economy. (EDT)


Good Luck.

Would a store actually allow me to appraise the diamond prior to purchase?

Can you give me an example of what can be wrong?

He told me he is making about 7% on me. I think he is actually making some more than the 7% he states.

There is no reason to jump to conclusions and think anything is wrong with this diamond! An independant appraisal is always a good idea of course whatever you buy - and make the sale final on the stone checking out favourably - but there could be various reasons why it is priced at the lower end and not necessarily for sinister ones!

Like suggested check it out carefully in lighting away from the store, out of interest is the grade setting inclusion on the report a cloud? I am curious as it mentions ' additional clouds not shown' in the comments section. Quorky some sellers will let you have a stone appraised, so you could ask your vendor if he will let you do so and make the sale final on you being satisfied that the diamond meets your expectations for every aspect of the appraisal.

 

[stone-cold11]

As I said, maybe nothing is wrong and he just need the liquidity. Comparing the online price of a stone to what you are paying for stone and setting, I think he is probably telling the truth about only making 7%. B&M has higher operating cost and usually sells stones 15-20% higher than comparable online vendors to break even.

An appraiser should be able to tell you if anything is wrong with the stone. Just make the sale final when the stone checks out.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 10:44:36 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
As I said, maybe nothing is wrong and he just need the liquidity. Comparing the online price of a stone to what you are paying for stone and setting, I think he is probably telling the truth about only making 7%. B&M has higher operating cost and usually sells stones 15-20% higher than comparable online vendors to break even.

An appraiser should be able to tell you if anything is wrong with the stone. Just make the sale final when the stone checks out.

Again please consider how you phrase your advice SC, as the poster thought you meant that there could be something wrong with the stone - it causes fear, uncertainty and doubt on what could be a perfectly good stone. If you feel that there could be an issue with a diamond, then rather than saying that there could be something wrong with it when you have no idea whether there is or not, direct the poster to an independant appraiser who will know for sure without scaring the poster. New posters listen to us and can take us literally ( as we have seen a lot of recently) and we have a duty to offer responsible advice within our capabilities as consumers.

For example, you could have said something like this " It looks like the diamond could be a great deal especially as you have seen the diamond in person and liked it, and checked it out for yourself. What I would suggest is that you talk to the seller and make the sale final on this diamond checking out to your satisfaction in all aspects with an independant appraiser, who will give you a professional and unbiased opinion of this diamond and its suitability for the intended purpose, and if the purchase price is reasonable."

And then link this tool as I have seen you do in the past.

http://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

 

[quorky]

Date: 10/29/2008 10:37:19 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/29/2008 10:23:06 AM

Author: quorky

Date: 10/29/2008 10:01:49 AM

Author: Stone-cold11

Nothing wrong in its HCA score.



Looks like a pretty good deal for the stone and setting you got there, comparable stone with a cut grade of VG sells for 10.8K. Might want to get it independently appraised, a little too good a deal for me... Something could be wrong, or maybe the store just want to have some liquidity with the current economy. (EDT)



Good Luck.

Would a store actually allow me to appraise the diamond prior to purchase?


Can you give me an example of what can be wrong?


He told me he is making about 7% on me. I think he is actually making some more than the 7% he states.

There is no reason to jump to conclusions and think anything is wrong with this diamond! An independant appraisal is always a good idea of course whatever you buy - and make the sale final on the stone checking out favourably - but there could be various reasons why it is priced at the lower end and not necessarily for sinister ones!


Like suggested check it out carefully in lighting away from the store, out of interest is the grade setting inclusion on the report a cloud? I am curious as it mentions '' additional clouds not shown'' in the comments section. Quorky some sellers will let you have a stone appraised, so you could ask your vendor if he will let you do so and make the sale final on you being satisfied that the diamond meets your expectations for every aspect of the appraisal.

is the grade setting inclusion on the report a cloud?

I am not 100% sure what you are asking, but I did notice a few clouds on the top outer facets under 10X and only if I tilt the diamond to have the surface reflect...

I think there was some grain on the side, which is not noticeable...

In my opinion (which is so irrelevant and minuscule in relation to the expertise you all posses), the color and excellent cut will prevail in terms of brilliance when she is wearing the diamond. Nobody is going to come up with a magnifying glass and inspect her wring. I understand there are some inclusions and some clouds, but to me it seemed well balanced.

 

[quorky]

Date: 10/29/2008 10:49:02 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/29/2008 10:44:36 AM

Author: Stone-cold11

As I said, maybe nothing is wrong and he just need the liquidity. Comparing the online price of a stone to what you are paying for stone and setting, I think he is probably telling the truth about only making 7%. B&M has higher operating cost and usually sells stones 15-20% higher than comparable online vendors to break even.


An appraiser should be able to tell you if anything is wrong with the stone. Just make the sale final when the stone checks out.

Again please consider how you phrase your advice SC, as the poster thought you meant that there could be something wrong with the stone - it causes fear, uncertainty and doubt on what could be a perfectly good stone. If you feel that there could be an issue with a diamond, then rather than saying that there could be something wrong with it when you have no idea whether there is or not, direct the poster to an independant appraiser who will know for sure without scaring the poster. New posters listen to us and can take us literally ( as we have seen a lot of recently) and we have a duty to offer responsible advice within our capabilities as consumers.


For example, you could have said something like this '' It looks like the diamond could be a great deal especially as you have seen the diamond in person and liked it, and checked it out for yourself. What I would suggest is that you talk to the seller and make the sale final on this diamond checking out to your satisfaction in all aspects with an independant appraiser, who will give you a professional and unbiased opinion of this diamond and its suitability for the intended purpose, and if the purchase price is reasonable.''


And then link this tool as I have seen you do in the past.

http://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

I am not freaking out and take all opinions in. The worst this will do is have me get an unbiased opinion as you suggested. Thanks for the link.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 11:04:07 AM
Author: quorky

Date: 10/29/2008 10:37:19 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/29/2008 10:23:06 AM

Author: quorky

Date: 10/29/2008 10:01:49 AM

Author: Stone-cold11

Nothing wrong in its HCA score.



Looks like a pretty good deal for the stone and setting you got there, comparable stone with a cut grade of VG sells for 10.8K. Might want to get it independently appraised, a little too good a deal for me... Something could be wrong, or maybe the store just want to have some liquidity with the current economy. (EDT)



Good Luck.

Would a store actually allow me to appraise the diamond prior to purchase?


Can you give me an example of what can be wrong?


He told me he is making about 7% on me. I think he is actually making some more than the 7% he states.

There is no reason to jump to conclusions and think anything is wrong with this diamond! An independant appraisal is always a good idea of course whatever you buy - and make the sale final on the stone checking out favourably - but there could be various reasons why it is priced at the lower end and not necessarily for sinister ones!


Like suggested check it out carefully in lighting away from the store, out of interest is the grade setting inclusion on the report a cloud? I am curious as it mentions ' additional clouds not shown' in the comments section. Quorky some sellers will let you have a stone appraised, so you could ask your vendor if he will let you do so and make the sale final on you being satisfied that the diamond meets your expectations for every aspect of the appraisal.

is the grade setting inclusion on the report a cloud?

I am not 100% sure what you are asking, but I did notice a few clouds on the top outer facets under 10X and only if I tilt the diamond to have the surface reflect...

I think there was some grain on the side, which is not noticeable...

In my opinion (which is so irrelevant and minuscule in relation to the expertise you all posses), the color and excellent cut will prevail in terms of brilliance when she is wearing the diamond. Nobody is going to come up with a magnifying glass and inspect her wring. I understand there are some inclusions and some clouds, but to me it seemed well balanced.

I was curious whether the reason the diamond was given an SI2 clarity grade was because there was a cloud type inclusion on the report? You could contact the seller and ask him. I know you mentioned the feather, but sometimes if a cloud is one of the main SI2 inclusions, you can see in the comments section " additional clouds not shown' or words to that effect. In some cases ( not all) clouds can sometimes interfere with brilliance, so that was why I was asking if a cloud was seen on the plotting diagram of the report. The appraisal would be a good move whatever you purchase certainly. It sounds as if you are happy with the diamond, so the next step would be for an impartial opinion of an appraiser, then you should be all set!

You are very welcome BTW and I know you are not freaking out, I just want to make sure you are getting balanced input. These threads stay in the archives and for new members reading, we want to make sure that the right advice is out there wherever possible, so we try to keep each thread as informative and accurate as possible so that people in the future can benefit.

 

[stone-cold11]

He wants an opinion on the price of the stone and I gave him one.

 

[quorky]

Date: 10/29/2008 11:09:57 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/29/2008 11:04:07 AM

Author: quorky

Date: 10/29/2008 10:37:19 AM

Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/29/2008 10:23:06 AM


Author: quorky

Date: 10/29/2008 10:01:49 AM


Author: Stone-cold11


Nothing wrong in its HCA score.




Looks like a pretty good deal for the stone and setting you got there, comparable stone with a cut grade of VG sells for 10.8K. Might want to get it independently appraised, a little too good a deal for me... Something could be wrong, or maybe the store just want to have some liquidity with the current economy. (EDT)




Good Luck.

Would a store actually allow me to appraise the diamond prior to purchase?



Can you give me an example of what can be wrong?



He told me he is making about 7% on me. I think he is actually making some more than the 7% he states.

There is no reason to jump to conclusions and think anything is wrong with this diamond! An independant appraisal is always a good idea of course whatever you buy - and make the sale final on the stone checking out favourably - but there could be various reasons why it is priced at the lower end and not necessarily for sinister ones!



Like suggested check it out carefully in lighting away from the store, out of interest is the grade setting inclusion on the report a cloud? I am curious as it mentions '' additional clouds not shown'' in the comments section. Quorky some sellers will let you have a stone appraised, so you could ask your vendor if he will let you do so and make the sale final on you being satisfied that the diamond meets your expectations for every aspect of the appraisal.

is the grade setting inclusion on the report a cloud?


I am not 100% sure what you are asking, but I did notice a few clouds on the top outer facets under 10X and only if I tilt the diamond to have the surface reflect...


I think there was some grain on the side, which is not noticeable...


In my opinion (which is so irrelevant and minuscule in relation to the expertise you all posses), the color and excellent cut will prevail in terms of brilliance when she is wearing the diamond. Nobody is going to come up with a magnifying glass and inspect her wring. I understand there are some inclusions and some clouds, but to me it seemed well balanced.

I was curious whether the reason the diamond was given an SI2 clarity grade was because there was a cloud type inclusion on the report? You could contact the seller and ask him. I know you mentioned the feather, but sometimes if a cloud is one of the main SI2 inclusions, you can see in the comments section '' additional clouds not shown'' or words to that effect. In some cases ( not all) clouds can sometimes interfere with brilliance, so that was why I was asking if a cloud was seen on the plotting diagram of the report. The appraisal would be a good move whatever you purchase certainly. It sounds as if you are happy with the diamond, so the next step would be for an impartial opinion of an appraiser, then you should be all set!


You are very welcome BTW and I know you are not freaking out, I just want to make sure you are getting balanced input.

Oh, on the report there was a feather closer to the inside edge of the table and there were to circular marks on the outside, marked fro the bottom of the diamond... So 3 notations in all (I am not sure if the feather is a crystal or a cloud inclusion or something else). I hope that does not effect the brilliance. As I have seen it sparkles nicely and I have noticed fire type sparkles as well. Sorry for the terminology, I am just not experience in this field...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 11:16:12 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
He wants an opinion on the price of the stone and I gave him one.

I understand that, and I am trying to help you to post good info and solid advice to people without causing unnecessary doubt in some minds.

Again for example -

"Looks like a pretty good deal for the stone and setting you got there, comparable stone with a cut grade of VG sells for 10.8K. Might want to get it independently appraised, a little too good a deal for me... Something could be wrong, or maybe the store just want to have some liquidity with the current economy. (EDT) "

Why not consider posting like this ?

Looks like a pretty good deal for the stone and setting you got there, comparable stone with a cut grade of VG sells for 10.8K. Might want to get it independently appraised to make sure the stone checks out favourably.

That way the poster gets the info they need without causing FUD as is known in Pricescope speak ( fear, uncertainty, doubt). The thing is SC, as I explained above, all the posts stay in the archives, people look them up and will read them for many years in the future. All of us who post in RT have a duty to make sure the info and advice given is accurate and helpful to the best of our abilities. We have a HUGE audience these days and many many people watching us, so we have to be careful with the advice we offer. There is a huge body of work and info accessible to anyone with a computer, I am very proud of Pricescope, my fellow posters and the tiny role I have played in being part of it, and that is where my advice to you comes from. I want us to continue to get better and better and offer fantastic help to those who seek it here and you are welcome to be part of that if you want to. My words are meant to be helpful and I hope you can see them in that light.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 11:18:11 AM
Author: quorky


Oh, on the report there was a feather closer to the inside edge of the table and there were to circular marks on the outside, marked fro the bottom of the diamond... So 3 notations in all (I am not sure if the feather is a crystal or a cloud inclusion or something else). I hope that does not effect the brilliance. As I have seen it sparkles nicely and I have noticed fire type sparkles as well. Sorry for the terminology, I am just not experience in this field...

It could be useful to know if you could get that info. Basically we are taught here that if a diamond of SI2 clarity has a cloud as the grade making inclusion - in other words that if a cloud is the reason a diamond is given an SI2 clarity grade, just to be on the safe side, to get it checked by an independant pro to make sure the cloud doesn''t interfere with brilliance. This isn''t always the case of course, but it might be worth just bearing in mind and checking for. As to your description of the sparkle, you are doing fine - the stone sounds as if it is giving you a nice display of brilliance ( white light) and fire ( coloured light)!!

 

[quorky]

Date: 10/29/2008 11:37:15 AM
...Basically we are taught here that if a diamond of SI2 clarity has a cloud as the grade making inclusion - in other words that if a cloud is the reason a diamond is given an SI2 clarity grade, just to be on the safe side, to get it checked by an independant pro to make sure the cloud doesn''t interfere with brilliance....

You are right, that was one of my concerns... I do not expect the seller to tell me, whether it was the reason for the grading. I would have to get an independent report. Calling around to find an appraiser for maybe tomorrow using the appraiser list you provided - thanks.

I am just wondering how the seller would actually relinquish the control of the diamond to get it appraised. He comes with me? I dont want to pay for the diamond and then have it appraised...

 

[stone-cold11]

I think it is usually sent by registered mail to the designated appraiser. Then you can show up at the time of the appraisal to go through the process, the appraiser will then send it back to the store by registered mail again. You will be paying for the shipping, shipping insurance and appraisal fees.

 

[quorky]

the thing is the appraisal place is 2 blocks away from the store... it would be a shame to have to go through the mailing process...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 12:15:19 PM
Author: quorky
the thing is the appraisal place is 2 blocks away from the store... it would be a shame to have to go through the mailing process...

You could ask for the seller to arrange for the diamond to be sent to the appraiser himself, he could be agreeable to that if you suggest it?

 

[girlie-girl]

You should inquire with the store about how they''d like to proceed with getting the diamond to the appraiser. Since the appraiser is so close, maybe they would opt to hire a courier or have a staff member deliver it personally instead of sending it through USPS Registered mail.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 12:35:24 PM
Author: girlie-girl
You should inquire with the store about how they''d like to proceed with getting the diamond to the appraiser. Since the appraiser is so close, maybe they would opt to hire a courier or have a staff member deliver it personally instead of sending it through USPS Registered mail.

That could be a good way to do it, great suggestion GG!

 

[quorky]

Thank you all for the advice...

I will tell him that I need to inspect it prior to purchase. If he bulks, I will ask him if he really expects me to purchase a 10k diamond without having an unbiased opinion...

seems like a plan. will report back when all is said and done.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2008 1:13:05 PM
Author: quorky
Thank you all for the advice...

I will tell him that I need to inspect it prior to purchase. If he bulks, I will ask him if he really expects me to purchase a 10k diamond without having an unbiased opinion...

seems like a plan. will report back when all is said and done.

Does sound like a plan, let us know how you get on!

This page might help by walking you through the appraisal process.

https://www.pricescope.com/appraiser.asp