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Need Advice - Radiant Unique Cut

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chriscam85

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
4
Hi all,

I've been a casual observer here for at least over a year, and now it's my turn to seek advice.
I'm looking to purchase this stone for my intended: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.43-carat-h-color-if-clarity-sku-23464

I keep getting told that it's a poor choice. But I don't fully understand WHY.
One reason was b/c of the bowtie effect. Is this really something that affects the stone overall, or is it just the face-up view? Don't emeralds/asschers have black bars? Can't you see dark arrows in H&A from face-up? Does it even matter?

Let me know what you think, and if you don't think it's a good idea, please please please describe why.
I appreciate all your help in this exciting time!
Thank you,
Chris
 
Emeralds and asschers with a lot of obstruction (black bars) aren't desirable. Also, no, looking st an h and a diamond does not always result in the arrows being black.

A "bowtie" refers to the fact that in any lighting you would have obstruction from looking at it face on. Many don't like that look.
I also suspect that the reason you're being told it isn't a good choice is more the fact that its very mushy,and doesn't look like it performs well. When I say mushy, I mean that, just outside the middle of the stone it is not crisp, the facets are not clearly defined from the top view perspective, they look kind of gray, kind of dead. This is one thing to look at when evaluating a stone. I'd it gets that mushy, undefined, greyish look in areas, it's not the best cut.
 
Hi Chris,
I can not comment on any specific stone of another seller- but I can make general comments
A "Radiant Cut" will be identified by GIA as "Cut Cornered Rectangular modified Brilliant"
If GIA calls a diamond a different shape, it may not look and perform like a Radiant cut
Since GIA does not use the term "Radiant Cut" this aspect can be confusing to consumers.
 
I love this faceting pattern but I have to agree with Neil that it looks mushy under the table. You can request an aset image
to check on the light return of the stone.

The only other 2 I saw at JA were a different faceting pattern. Not sure if you are interested but I'll post them.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/?CaratFrom=2.62&CaratTo=15.00&Color=H,G,F,E,D&Clarity=VS2,VS1,VVS2,VVS1,IF&PriceFrom=200&PriceTo=52000&Sort=Carat%20asc,%20DefaultOrder&TabSelected=3&DiamondID=470737,469126,216506,28361,390440

If I had that kind of money to buy a stone, I would contact Good Old Gold and let them know what you are after. They can
bring in 3 (maybe more) stones and video them under different lighting conditions. You can post links to the videos and get
PSer's opinions.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/

Edit - here is a JA stone cut like the one you posted but looks like it has much better light return (just for an example so you
can see the difference between mushy and crisp, clear facets).

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.01-carat-e-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-23447
 
HI:

Radiants hold their body color. If I hadn't seen the GIA color grade, I'd have thought it was much lower.

cheers--Sharon
 
I have happy fingers today and posting too quick. When I used to see "mushy" diamonds, I thought they weren't clean. My first ring was a radiant (pre-Internet shopping) and it had a touch of leakage under the table- nothing extreme- but I had the stone reset thinking I couldn't clean it well enough under the prongs. No one ever explained light return to me. I just knew cut, color, symmetry and polish. Over time, I learned how to interpret crisp diamonds versus "mushy" ones. As a lay person, if I look at the diamonds that are most appealing, they are the brightest and typically that's a result of crisp facet patterns, angles and an overally well cut stone. If you look at the diamonds recommended, they don't have any cloudiness/milkiness/opaqueness/mushiness under the table (the top cut of the diamond that lets you see through the diamond). The facet pattern you chose, is really pretty, but it's not returning the best performance in that particular diamond.
 
Thank you all for your responses!

I'm starting to understand why this is a bad pick. I can see the "mush" now.

Can you help me understand the pros/cons of the following 3 choices?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.25-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-368569 - thanks travelgal
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-33183
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-26413

Thanks again!
Chris

Oh: also, I got this from GoG.n5s0005.jpg
 
chriscam85|1426873982|3850142 said:
Thank you all for your responses!

I'm starting to understand why this is a bad pick. I can see the "mush" now.

Can you help me understand the pros/cons of the following 3 choices?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.25-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-368569 - thanks travelgal
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-33183
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-26413

Thanks again!
Chris

Oh: also, I got this from GoG.n5s0005.jpg
Click to expand...


Hmm, well, right off the bat my favorite are the first and blast ones. Depending on the price difference, I'd get that first one from James Allen in a heartbeat.
Now, the second two you choose, ignoring how well they perform, are different than the other two. You can see that, I'm sure, just from looking. Choices 1 and 4 are faceted more like modern rounds, very symmetrical to the naked eye. The other two look more chaotic when you're looking at it, you can't see a really obvious facetting pattern like the first choices. These will create two different kinds of sparkle. Some prefer one, some the other. The former ate broader flashes, the latter are more pin point, glittery flashes.

The glittery options you pick aren't personally my favorite, and im not sure the ones you chose would be that great of performers. The first choice you pick, I love- its just like the good old gold branded cut you like, but you aren't paying for a branded cut.
 
Niel|1426875891|3850168 said:
chriscam85|1426873982|3850142 said:
Thank you all for your responses!

I'm starting to understand why this is a bad pick. I can see the "mush" now.

Can you help me understand the pros/cons of the following 3 choices?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.25-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-368569 - thanks travelgal
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-33183
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-26413

Thanks again!
Chris

Oh: also, I got this from GoG.n5s0005.jpg
Click to expand...


Hmm, well, right off the bat my favorite are the first and blast ones. Depending on the price difference, I'd get that first one from James Allen in a heartbeat.
Now, the second two you choose, ignoring how well they perform, are different than the other two. You can see that, I'm sure, just from looking. Choices 1 and 4 are faceted more like modern rounds, very symmetrical to the naked eye. The other two look more chaotic when you're looking at it, you can't see a really obvious facetting pattern like the first choices. These will create two different kinds of sparkle. Some prefer one, some the other. The former ate broader flashes, the latter are more pin point, glittery flashes.

The glittery options you pick aren't personally my favorite, and im not sure the ones you chose would be that great of performers. The first choice you pick, I love- its just like the good old gold branded cut you like, but you aren't paying for a branded cut.
Click to expand...

I like the way you put that Niel. The two looks are different.
Chris, what looks like "mush" in many photos, may be sparkle in real life.
Capturing the beauty of a Radiant Diamond is extremely difficult in photography. Having it rotate on a tray sitting on the pavilion is probably the worst way to shoot it- but that is how many of the photographic systems are set up.
For me, I prefer a stone cut like the person who invented the cut envisioned- a stone with a lot of pinfire flashes, and few dark areas, over a square stone cut with facets to look like a round. this is a personal taste issue which frequently gets clouded due to AGSL grading only one type of radiant- so that type gets called 'Ideal"- which is nothing more than a sales descriptor- like "extra crispy"

As a side note- the AGSL report which is pictured- something is kinda weird.
The measurements indicate a rectangular stone, yet the image shows a square.
 
I am partial to the more rectangular cut, so I do like the dimensions of your second choice. The color looks white and it looks "crisp" but has the crushed ice look (that some people love and some people hate). Your original choice had a more distinct facet pattern, so if you are looking for the more distinct facet pattern, then I would try to be patient and work with a vendor to source a stone.

I would contact GOG or another vendor and ask them to see if they find additional stones for you. Radiants are tricky and for your budget, I would want to make sure I looked at several good stones for comparison. GOG will make videos comparing the stones so that you have a better idea of how they will perform indoors and in natural light. Just keep in mind it may take a bit longer to find the perfect stone as radiants aren't as common as round brilliants.

Also, I noticed that the third stone you posted was of a cushion- was that intentional?
 
The only type of rectangular radiant that I think is really outstanding is this kind of cut:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.01-carat-e-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-23447

Finding a 3 ct stone like that might be like finding a needle in a haystack. But I would not compromise on cut. Your stone in your first post appears to have a similar cut but perhaps not quite as good. I'd still get an ASET image on it. The other options are the squares, which should also have excellent light return.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.25-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-368569

I also am curious about the AGS report from GOG because I would like to see a photo of that stone. Are you wanting a more rectangular or square stone? Is a radiant what the recipient has expressed a preference for?
 
Thank you again everyone for your replies!

diamondseeker2006, I agree completely. This is the cut that I want, however it seems to be very difficult finding one in the 3ct range. The other one I'd been looking at seems to have the same flaws others have pointed out on the first post.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/3.34-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-23457

My intended hasn't expressed a need for radiants specifically, but rather something unique. She liked cushions at first, but their increase in popularity lately has put her off a bit.

Travelgal, I did put the cushion on here on purpose. I felt like it looked a bit different. Not sure if its a non-standard cut, or if I just saw it and added it to my list. The pavillion cut really reminds me of the mixed cut that I like.

I definitely like the rectangular over square, but I'm wondering if the l/w ratio is what's causing the "problems" with the cut I like. B/c in diamondseeker2006's first link, I don't see the mush. Maybe it's the depth%....?

GOG only offered the Ideal Square as an available option, but I'd have to pay about $300 for them to bring the stone in and take photos/videos. I am curious too about the l/w ratio. I'll ask.

Thanks everyone!
Chris
 
She gave you no other suggestion besides unique?

Makes me think marquise, colored diamonds, east/west emerald cuts, things like that.

Has she had a chance to try some on? Different cuts are like clothes, some flatter one had more than another.
 
I'll tell you honestly, I would not choose radiant unless that was her very strong preference. It is just really hard to find a great one. There are some cuts that are more timeless, too.

How about this beauty?

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/gz5i55

See a similar ring Victor recently made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKxbX1Gm7L8

Doesn't get much prettier than that. And she won't run into people with the same ring, that's for sure!
 
Hi Chris
Actually finding a great radiant cut is not all that difficult as there are branded stones cut by the company that invented the cut.
It's been said that some people love them and some people hate them- a point which can be made about ANY cut of diamond.
Well cut radiant cuts - that being the ones that do not look like rrectangular stones faceted like rounds - can be amazing in person. Have you seen stones in person?
It might be worthwhile to seek out a local dealer in your area that carries the original branded stones to have a look in person.
 
I would personally pay the $300 to have someone source the diamonds for me. You will be credited the amount when you purchase the stone. Assuming your budget is $50-60k, that's under 1% of your purchase price. They will make videos for you and work with you until you find the right stone. I love the idea of a radiant- I had one and I was the only one of my friend group, work group, etc. Come to think of it, I didn't run across another person I met/knew that had a radiant in the 7 years I had mine. I love the emerald shape yet the sparkle you get from the cut. I think it's the best of both worlds, unique but still timeless and classy.
 
It might very well be worth it as there is a cost bringing stones in.
Having said that, many internet vendors will not charge such a fee to bring stones in and provide Video as well as pictures.

Stores that carry the branded stones will generally bring them in for no charge.
 
In case you're wondering how it turned out... I went with the original link. 3.43 H IF
img_20150326_182829487_hdr.jpg
img_20150328_165640553.jpg
 
chriscam85|1427873714|3855418 said:
In case you're wondering how it turned out... I went with the original link. 3.43 H IF
img_20150326_182829487_hdr.jpg
img_20150328_165640553.jpg
Click to expand...
Lovely setting! Thanks for coning back and keeping us updated. The shape ia very elegant on her hand. I am sure she is over the moon!! Conrgrsts :)
 
Absolutely beautiful! I'm so glad you didn't halo it as it looks spectacular!
 
So interesting to see another cut that isn't mentioned here as frequently - it is gorgeous! Thanks for coming back and sharing the great news (and beautiful pics!!)
 
Rockdiamond|1427116781|3851255 said:
Hi Chris
Actually finding a great radiant cut is not all that difficult as there are branded stones cut by the company that invented the cut.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you call 'great' if a little or a lot of mush doesn't bother you and that is still 'great' than sure seek out the company that invented the cut.

But I'll leave 'great radiant cut' and what it really means to the sellers of that cut namely you!
 
Beautiful! So glad you came back to share!
 
tmorrow|1427941971|3855635 said:
Rockdiamond|1427116781|3851255 said:
Hi Chris
Actually finding a great radiant cut is not all that difficult as there are branded stones cut by the company that invented the cut.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you call 'great' if a little or a lot of mush doesn't bother you and that is still 'great' than sure seek out the company that invented the cut.

But I'll leave 'great radiant cut' and what it really means to the sellers of that cut namely you!
Click to expand...


You've been a member for one day with five posts and you are tossing out snide comments... Probably not an expert... :nono:
 
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