Need advice on

[manki]

Hi! Hoping you guys can give expert advice to a newbie here. I''m looking for a "Near Perfect Diamond" for an engagement ring. Been shopping around for the past several weeks and I came across this one:

IGI cert.
Cut: Round Brilliant
Weight: 1.07
Measurements: 6.60-6.61 x 4.07 mm
Color: D
Clarity: IF
Fluorescence: None
Polish and Symmetry: Ex
Proportions: Ex
Table Diameter: 56%
Crown Height: 15%
Pavillion Depth: 43.5%
Girdle Thickness: Medium Faceted
Culet Size: Pointed
Comments: Hearts and Arrows

It''s selling for about US$20,000. I was wondering if this is a good deal or not? Also, is this already considered a Near Perfect Diamond? I heard from friends that I should look for D/IF diamonds with GIA certs. Is IGI reliable?

Appreciate your help! Thanks

 

[chrono]

Do you have the crown and pavilion angles? Without this, I cannot tell the quality of the cut. Cut is the other C and to me, it is the MOST important cut as it determines the SPARKLE of the diamond. IGI although a very large lab, tends to be lax in their clarity and colour grading when compared to GIA and AGS.

Hence, this GIA suggestion:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/br104dif/
$21696 at Good Old Gold

 

[manki]

Unfortunately I wasn''t able to get the crown and pavillion angles.

The salesman let me look at this colored scope and I indeed saw 8 symmetrical arrows. He said only perfectly cut diamonds will have those. He did show me other diamonds that aren''t hearts and arrows and I can clearly see the difference.

If IGI is more lax in there certifications, then this diamond might just be an E or a VVS1 in GIA? If so, then does that mean the diamond you are recommending is more reasonably priced than this one? I will be paying about 10% less for the this IGI cert. diamond (which might very well be E/VVS1) vs the GIA one (D/IF) you are recommending.

Thanks for the advice Chrono!

 

[chrono]

Date: 7/24/2007 11:54:31 AM
Author: manki
Unfortunately I wasn''t able to get the crown and pavillion angles.

Bummer. See if you can pop in or call to get the info.

If IGI is more lax in there certifications, then this diamond might just be an E or a VVS1 in GIA? If so, then does that mean the diamond you are recommending is more reasonably priced than this one? I will be paying about 10% less for the this IGI cert. diamond (which might very well be E/VVS1) vs the GIA one (D/IF) you are recommending.
Maybe yes, maybe no. For this, I''d take it to an independent appraiser to check out if it matches the cert. For the amount of money you are putting down, I think I''d go with the GIA cert AND an IA to check it out.

Thanks for the advice Chrono!
You are welcome.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to PS.

If a true H&A cut is important to you, you might want to read this info.

https://www.pricescope.com/hearts_indx.asp If a diamond shows an arrow pattern, it doesn''t necessarily mean it is a true H&A cut. There are diamonds which can display varying arrow patterns which aren''t H&A, so you need to make sure of what you are buying.

If D IF matters greatly to you ( as it seems it does) then it is best to make the sale final on an independant appraisal to make sure it is indeed a D IF. Also see if the vendor can run a Sarin report to get the crown and pavillion angles, or get an Idealscope image which would be helpful. But above all, use your eyes. I just wanted to add, does your GF particularly want a 1ct D IF, or do you think she might prefer larger with a lower colour and clarity? As long as the cut is great, you can drop to perhaps an F or G and a VVS or VS clarity or lower and still have a very white and clean looking diamond, just a point to ponder!

 

[manki]

Thanks for the advice Lorelei

I''ll try to see if I can get that Sarin report or Idealscope image. As for the size and clarity, I actually thought of that before. The seller was recommending a larger stone with lower quality. He said I can get a D so it''s still very white but a VVS or a VS. The clarity won''t be visible to the naked eye anyway. It''s just that I don''t think my gf would want anything larger than 1ct as she is quite petite. I know she likes her diamonds really white and brilliant. H&A is not that important but it''s a bonus.

Thanks again!

 

[chrono]

Date: 7/24/2007 12:48:59 PM
Author: manki
Thanks for the advice Lorelei

I'll try to see if I can get that Sarin report or Idealscope image. As for the size and clarity, I actually thought of that before. The seller was recommending a larger stone with lower quality. He said I can get a D so it's still very white but a VVS or a VS. The clarity won't be visible to the naked eye anyway. It's just that I don't think my gf would want anything larger than 1ct as she is quite petite. I know she likes her diamonds really white and brilliant. H&A is not that important but it's a bonus.

Thanks again!

It is true that even in VVS and VS, you will not be able to see the inclusions.

Also, just because a lady is petite, it doesn't mean that she would not want anything smaller than 1 carat. There many tiny ladies here on PS (and with finger sizes of 3 and under) sporting 2 to 3 carat boulders.

 

[manki]

you just gave me something to think about...

wonder what most people will choose? size over quality? or quality over size?

 

[chrono]

Manki,
I would not call it quality versus size. There are 4 Cs: Cut, Clarity, Colour and Size. Most would rate Cut as #1. The other Cs depends on personal taste. Some must have it large, others like it icy white, and some must have it "mind clean", then another group who likes it all balanced.

Group 1: Cut #1, sacrifice some colour and clarity for size
Group 2: Cut #1, top colour, sacrifice some clarity and size
Group 3: Cut #1, very high clarity, sacrifice some colour and size
Group 4: Cut #1, G-H, VS2-SI1, and a decent size.

Pick your choice.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/24/2007 1:14:09 PM
Author: Chrono
Manki,
I would not call it quality versus size. There are 4 Cs: Cut, Clarity, Colour and Size. Most would rate Cut as #1. The other Cs depends on personal taste. Some must have it large, others like it icy white, and some must have it ''mind clean'', then another group who likes it all balanced.

Group 1: Cut #1, sacrifice some colour and clarity for size
Group 2: Cut #1, top colour, sacrifice some clarity and size
Group 3: Cut #1, very high clarity, sacrifice some colour and size
Group 4: Cut #1, G-H, VS2-SI1, and a decent size.

Pick your choice.

Yep absolutely! No way is wrong, but as so many women regardless of their finger sizes etc LOVE size, then I think give it some serious consideration! I would in no way want a 1 ct D IF, I would shoot for an H or I SI1 etc with a great cut as large as possible, but that is my preference! Just try to make sure what your GF would love most before plunking down the ring budget!

 

[manki]

I see. So I guess Lorelei belongs to Group 1 or 4

I think you guys are right. At the end of the day, it''s a matter of preference. Problem is, how will I know what she prefers hehehe I''d like it to be a suprise and asking her preference will definitely be a spoiler.

This exercise (of buying a diamond) is difficult although quite fun

Thanks for the expert advice!

 

[manki]

Chrono,

I got the crown angle and pavilion measurements:

Crown Angle = 34.6%
Pavilion Angle = 41%

Can this diamond be considered Ideal Cut? Thanks

 

[whatmeworry]

Hi Manki,
Those angles are promising. Still, with the money you''re spending you might consider getting an indpendent opinion (appraiser) on the D/IF.

 

[manki]

Hi Whatmeworry,

Sorry I overlooked the crown angle. Should''ve been:

Crown Angle: 34.2
Pavilion Angle: 41.0

Is this still ok?

Yeah I''m really considering having an independent appraiser look at it. Thanks for the advice!

 

[whatmeworry]

34.2/41.0 is fine. Sounds like a promising diamond.

 

[chrono]

Date: 7/24/2007 11:06:12 PM
Author: manki
Chrono,

I got the crown angle and pavilion measurements:

Crown Angle = 34.6%
Pavilion Angle = 41%

Can this diamond be considered Ideal Cut? Thanks

Yes, based on the measurements, it is not likely to be a dud. Without an Idealscope picture and the H&A pictures, I cannot comment on the pattern and light leakage, but I can say with certainty that it is most likely a gorgeous stone.

I agree with Lorelei that most women don''t go for D IF. How about a compromise since we don''t know her preference. Say, F VS2? F is still icy white and VS2 is absolutely clean, sometimes even loupe clean. With a budget of $20K, she''ll still get a very nice size of anywhere between 1.6 to 1.8 carats.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/25/2007 8:22:44 AM
Author: Chrono

Date: 7/24/2007 11:06:12 PM
Author: manki
Chrono,

I got the crown angle and pavilion measurements:

Crown Angle = 34.6%
Pavilion Angle = 41%

Can this diamond be considered Ideal Cut? Thanks

Yes, based on the measurements, it is not likely to be a dud. Without an Idealscope picture and the H&A pictures, I cannot comment on the pattern and light leakage, but I can say with certainty that it is most likely a gorgeous stone.

I agree with Lorelei that most women don''t go for D IF. How about a compromise since we don''t know her preference. Say, F VS2? F is still icy white and VS2 is absolutely clean, sometimes even loupe clean. With a budget of $20K, she''ll still get a very nice size of anywhere between 1.6 to 1.8 carats.

I am DEFININTELY a group oner!! Hehehe...

Chronie has a good compromise, I think many women given the choice would rather go for larger with still very high quality specs such as F VS. Is there any way you could drop hints to find out or see what size her friends are sporting?

 

[Ellen]

In a well cut stone, I''d say you can easliy go to G and you''re still not going to see any color. (I have one)

 

[Lorelei]

Manki, does she know a proposal is in the works? If so, then perhaps you could hint to find out what she likes sizewise.

 

[manki]

Good idea Chrono

I think F is still a nice color. You won''t notice it as long she doesn''t compare it with her friends who have D or E color diamonds. As for clarity, no way to tell except in the cert.

Yeah with 20K I think I can go for something closer to 2 carats.

Lorelei,

She probably has an idea coz she would see me look at jewelry stores whenever we go malling. Most her friends though are sporting 1 carat diamonds which was why I thought of 1 carat in the 1st place.

I''ll probably start hinting. I really don''t want her to go back and exchange the diamond hehehe

I really appreciate you guys helping out a newbie. I actually am becoming quite an expert with diamonds. Go for cut which is the most important. For color F is still ok. Clarity is not such a big deal. Then go for a decent size. I can definitely return the favor and help out my guy friends should they think of proposing in the future

 

[Lorelei]

Glad to be of help! It can be tricky when trying to think of whether she would prefer a D IF or a bit lower and more size, but I do think Chronie''s recipe for you LOL of F or G VS is well worth consideration. For your great budget this could be a good compromise, also diamonds do shrink

AKA DSS ( diamond shrinkage syndrome) so a bit of extra size may be a good thing.

I would perhaps start hinting and then you should have a very clear idea of what she values fairly quickly for her ring! And many women swoon at the option of being able to have more size than they thought, she would perhaps rather be given a hintful ( new word by Lorelei?) choice....

 

[chrono]

Face up, it is very difficult to tell the difference between a well cut D, E and F. Colour is graded on a white paper with the diamonds upside down & viewed from the side. You''ve got the right idea about balancing the 4 Cs. I like the hinting idea, it never hurts to know what she likes.

 

[manki]

Yeah I hope it works Chrono. As for the setting, does platinum or white gold make a difference aesthetically? And will it be better to do a solitaire or diamond studded band?

 

[InlovewithJHK]

Just for another girl opinion... I would never want a IF stone!! I would much rather get a 1.75 carat stone that is D VS2 or SI1! I do love the look of D and E stones and would take one any day of the week. I would look for a combo of D,E,F and lower clarity (even up to SIs).

Also, one of my good friends is about 80 pounds and 4''10" and is getting a 2 carat ring so you never know what a girl wants! And for $20,000 you should get a bigger size IMHO.

 

[chrono]

Many on this board like platinum. For such an expensive purchase, I'd stick with platinum.

Pros on platinum
1. Heavy (feels substantial)
2. Will never tarnish or yellow
3. More pure than gold
4. Will not loose metal when polished
5. Prongs will bend, not break if damaged

Cons of platinum
1. Some don't like the heavy weight of platinum
2. Shows scratches more easily than WG
3. Developed a gray patina
4. Very expensive

As for the extra diamonds (or not) will depend on the taste of the wearer. Any idea what she might like?

 

[manki]

Thanks for the advice InlovewithJHK

Seems like most women would go for size over clarity. Makes sense though as you really won''t be able to tell with the naked eye. It all boils down to her preference. I''m already thinking of a way to find out. Will let you guys know!

Thanks Chrono

I think I''ll go with Platinum and solitaire. Does it matter whether I use a 3, a 4, or a 6 pronged setting?

 

[Lorelei]

4 or 6 prongs are usual and it is a matter of preference as to which is chosen.

Some feel 6 prongs are more secure especially with a larger diamond, they are also thought to protect the diamond better.
4 prongs make the diamond look less round to some, but many prefer this look as it is thought to display more of the diamond. Personal preference really.

 

[manki]

Was finally able to find out my gf''s preference

I told her that a colleague of mine is planning to propose and he is having a difficult time choosing between two diamonds. One is 1 carat, excellent color, excellent cut, excellent clarity. The other is 1.5 carat, excellent color and cut, but only VS clarity. I told her even if its only VS, it won''t be seen by the naked eye. I was waiting for her to say something when she asked how old my colleague''s gf is. I asked why does it matter? She said twenty-something ladies will look nice in 1 carat diamonds whereas thirty-something ladies should go for bigger stones. She also said even if clarity can only be seen by the naked eye, it feels good deep inside knowing you have a clean stone.

Eureka

Got my answer finally! My gf is 27....I''ll go for the stone above. Although I have a feeling she will come and ask me 3 years from now for a bigger stone....hehehe hope by then she doesn''t care too much about clarity or else I''ll go broke

Thanks for the advice! Really appreciated it you guys

Her birthday is coming up...I''m thinking of giving her diamond stud earrings. I''m getting addicted to searching and evaluating diamonds hehehe

 

[Hest88]

You''re a very smart man!

 

[chrono]

If you think she is planning an upgrade, go for a place where the upgrade policy is great:
1. 100% of purchase price applied to the new upgrade
2. Carries excellent cut stones
3. Does not require you to spend double the original amount.