Need advice on DIFFICULT neighbor

[LetItShine]

Hi Everyone,

I'm hoping you can offer up some advice on how to deal with a new neighbor. We purchased a new home in early January. We haven't moved yet because our current house hasn't sold and I wanted to get our spring break trip out of the way first. Here's the situation: the new house has a sump pump. The whole neighborhood is clay and everyone has sump pumps. The discharge pipe for the sump pump extends about 5ft from the house and drains on OUR property. It isn't the proper setup and we fully intend to bring the discharge underground and out to the street. We live in Michigan and it has been a BAD winter. The snow just melted and there hasn't been an opportunity to bury it (ground is still frozen). Anyway, about 10 days ago the neighbor came to the door and rudely told me that we were flooding his basement. We don't believe it's flooding his basement. His foundation is no where near the drainage (his driveway is and then his garage). He said our drain was illegal (it's not) and we had to bury it. I told him we would as soon as the snow melted. We got back from vacation yesterday and I was at the new house today. I immediately looked at the discharge pipe and it was as we left it. I took a shower and began cleaning. A couple hours later I noticed that the pipe had been moved. Instead of draining to the side of the house it was turned and facing the street. Since the pipe was cemented that means that he cut it with a saw, added an elbow, and then reattached the 5 ft pipe. He did this while I was there but I didn't see him doing it.

Am I wrong to think this is crazy? He took a saw to something attached to MY house! I was going to call the cops but after some thought I realized it would only make matters worse. I feel like I should document it because I fear this may be the first of many problems I encounter with this man. What would you do? I'm starting to feel like this move is a bad decision We really love our current neighborhood and have terrific neighbors. We just want to be closer to where the kids go to school.

I'm not sure if there has always been an issue with his basement. He said he just moved in 6 months ago. Both homes were built in the 70's so I'm pretty sure this is nothing new. My basement has remained totally dry. Unfortunately, he is the last and lowest house on the street. I don't think my sump pump is his problem and I wonder what will be next if his basement continues to flood?

 

[sonnyjane]

Oh MAN that's a tough one. I think you're right that calling the cops would escalate things...

I would PROBABLY kill him with kindness. Knock on his door, ask if he is the one that did the work, explain that you had been planning on fixing it but hadn't moved into the house full-time yet, but appreciate his concern (which is bull lol). Introduce yourself and say you're looking forward to moving in, etc. Also let him know that in the future if he has a concern, you'd prefer him telling you rather than taking matters into his own hands (but say it nicely).

DH and I, I fear, are going to be in a similar situation. We just bought a place but haven't moved in yet, but when we have visited, we notice that the neighbor;s fence is falling down and to remedy the situation, they have placed cheap metal spikes on our side of the fence to prop their fence up rather than actually fix it. The two times we have flown up over the last couple months, they haven't been home, but I know we will have to discuss it with them.

 

[momhappy]

I have no advice on the pipe situation, but if it was me and my soon-to-be-neighbor, I certainly wouldn't be making enemies before I even moved in. This is one of those situations where I would do everything in my power to keep the peace, even if the neighbor is being unreasonable. Your interactions with him could set up a life-time of misery, so think carefully about your words, your actions, etc.

 

[lulu]

Although you would be correct to call the police, I agree it would escalate the situation and you have to live there. I would start with SJ's method, but your husband should do the talking. He sounds like the kind of guy who does't respect women.

But, if he is still hostile, you should have an attorney send him a warning letter.

 

[sonnyjane]

Although you would be correct to call the police, I agree it would escalate the situation and you have to live there. I would start with SJ's method, but your husband should do the talking. He sounds like the kind of guy who does't respect women.

But, if he is still hostile, you should have an attorney send him a warning letter.

I absolutely get that impression as well.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

My advice is to call the police, get a police report and take him to court if you have to. This man sounds like a bully. If you let him get away with one thing, the situation will only get worse. Take pictures of the damage he did to your property also.
Behavior like that has to be nipped in the bud.

 

[LetItShine]

Thanks for the good suggestions so far! I think this man doesn't really respect anyone. Our house was a flip and the past owner had issues with the neighbor as well. He had previously complained about the sump pump flooding his basement at a time when we had a snow melt and his basement windows were half covered with snow. The owner who was remodeling our house told him he needed to clear the snow away from his windows and ignored the request to move the pipe (cant move it in winter anyway) I think the neighbor talked as rudely to him as he did to me. I definately don't want enemies for neighbors! It's been a source of stress

 

[Matata]

He trespassed on to your property and vandalized your pipe. I wouldn't worry too much about escalating things with him. He's already set the bar pretty high. Report him. And then have a talk to establish what you consider reasonable and proper lines of communication for dealing with future issues…because there will be future issues. Seriously, the balls on this guy. So if he doesn't like the color of your exterior paint, what will he do?

 

[amc80]

He trespassed on to your property and vandalized your pipe. I wouldn't worry too much about escalating things with him. He's already set the bar pretty high. Report him. And then have a talk to establish what you consider reasonable and proper lines of communication for dealing with future issues…because there will be future issues. Seriously, the balls on this guy. So if he doesn't like the color of your exterior paint, what will he do?

I agree with this. By not wanting to escalate the situation, you are basically sending him a message that what he did was ok. Sure, you might talk to him about it, but that's just a slap on the hand. If someone trespassed and vandalized I would file a police report. I mean really, who does that guy think he is?

 

[luv2sparkle]

I agree with Matata. By not reporting his vandalism you are giving him permission to keep treating you this way. What he did was a crime, he could have taken a different approach to the problem and he chose not to. Being nice to him is not in your best interest. Bullies don't become nice because you are nice. They only relent because they don't get away with what they do. Not that you should retaliate, but contacting the proper authorities lets him know that you will not cave under those tactics.

 

[Indylady]

My advice is to call the police, get a police report and take him to court if you have to. This man sounds like a bully. If you let him get away with one thing, the situation will only get worse. Take pictures of the damage he did to your property also.
Behavior like that has to be nipped in the bud.

Exactly this, but I wouldn't bring it up to him or confront him about it personally just yet. Even though I do think he's likely the one that did it, I wouldn't say anything to him without some kind of proof. Sounds incredibly scary.

 

[VapidLapid]

My advice is to call the police, get a police report and take him to court if you have to. This man sounds like a bully. If you let him get away with one thing, the situation will only get worse. Take pictures of the damage he did to your property also.
Behavior like that has to be nipped in the bud.

Exactly this, but I wouldn't bring it up to him or confront him about it personally just yet. Even though I do think he's likely the one that did it, I wouldn't say anything to him without some kind of proof. Sounds incredibly scary.

I agree with this. But I would add that it would be wise to have a really nice chat with him and thank him for the work he did. And have your smart phone casually recording everything. He has to admit to having done the vandalism to your pipe. Then file a police report and have your lawyer send him a letter explaining to him that by having been the last one to work on that pipe drainage HE is now legally responsible and liable for its performance and the consequences. Further if is is now in an illegal configuration or flow direction he will be responsible for the costs to remedy.

Perhaps a nice tall fence against which you can plant rose bushes would be worth investing in.

 

[movie zombie]

I wouldn't thank him for trespassing on my property and doing unagreed to work on my property.
definitely call the police and have a report taken.
you're going to need a paper trail with this guy over time.....
he doesn't respect you or our property and if you allow him a slide on this one he'll take a mile the next time.

 

[minousbijoux]

He trespassed on to your property and vandalized your pipe. I wouldn't worry too much about escalating things with him. He's already set the bar pretty high. Report him. And then have a talk to establish what you consider reasonable and proper lines of communication for dealing with future issues…because there will be future issues. Seriously, the balls on this guy. So if he doesn't like the color of your exterior paint, what will he do?

This

 

[LAJennifer]

If you found out that your sump pump WAS flooding his basement, would you feel differently?

 

[aviastar]

Get a nice privacy fence and keep the gate locked. Then add a camera on his side.

 

[aljdewey]

I agree with all those who say to report this promptly. This person is illegally altering something on your house, and if that goes unchallenged, I can just about guarantee it will happen again. He is *not* entitled to take things into his own hands just because he doesn't like your answer. He can sue you if he likes, but he cannot march onto your property and hacksaw your pipe. Full stop.

LA Jen, I know your question was to the OP, but I have to say that in her shoes, I would not feel any differently even if I learned my pipe was the cause for his basement flooding. He approached her on it, and she told him that she was planning to fix it as soon as the ground thawed enough to do the work. She's only owned the home since January, and he knows that.

If that answer wasn't satisfactory to him, he could have asked her to at least reroute the pipe until it could be buried - he didn't. He could have sought help from his local authorities to intervene - he didn't. Instead, he broke the law in trespassing onto her property and altered her property without her permission. Total no-no for me.

 

[missy]

Wow, this is an unpleasant and difficult situation and I am sorry you are dealing with a neighbor like this. I would second all those who said to contact the police. It's not OK for him to go on your property and alter it and it is against the law as far as I know no matter where you live.

I would also install a security system with cameras and the ability to time record as things happen ASAP. It's not as expensive as you might think and definitely worth the peace of mind. You cannot deal with crazy on a one to one level so report, get a written record and record whatever happens on your property with cameras and perhaps that will scare him off from doing something like this again. Good luck.

 

[momhappy]

If you found out that your sump pump WAS flooding his basement, would you feel differently?

This is a good point. OP only said that she didn't "believe" that the pipe was flooding his basement. There are always two sides to every story and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt (which means that unless I had some proof that the my drainage wasn't flooding his basement, I wouldn't be jumping to conclusions.).
Our old house had a major drainage problem and it was nothing that we, personally, did - it was just the way that the water flowed on the property and it was made worse by the drainage system that was installed by the previous owners. Technically, the drainage issue was our responsibility and so we worked together with our neighbor (who could also be quite difficult at times) to resolve the issue.
It sort of sounds to me like the neighbor has made mention of the issue and no progress had been made (I realize that OP mentioned the ground was still frozen, but if the neighbor found a way to work on the pipe, then I'm guessing that a qualified maintenance/construction professional could have found a way to work on it too). I also understand that maybe OP was waiting for the ground to thaw for the work to be done properly (and not just a "quick fix" job like the one the neighbor performed). I read that OP said that they intended to repair the improper drainage, but were the intentions ever actually discussed with the neighbor (did you ever approach him with an actual repair plan, an actual timeline for repairs, etc.)? If none of this was discussed, then I can understand his frustration. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not condoning what he's done. He had no right to alter someone's property, but situations like this often escalate to a place that they don't need to go simply based on the fact that there is a complete lack of effective communication. Unless the neighbor is completely unreasonable (and he very well could be), I would still attempt to resolve this issue with some basic communication before considering more "formal" approaches (police reports, etc.).

 

[LaraOnline]

Agree! A flooded basement is seriously bad, damaging to the home and a big health risk.
How do you know your sump pipe was not contributing?

 

[tyty333]

Agree! A flooded basement is seriously bad, damaging to the home and a big health risk.
How do you know your sump pipe was not contributing?

But why couldnt he have nicely asked if it was ok to put an elbow on the pipe and face it towards the street until the ground
melted?

 

[Boatluvr]

Even IF his basement is flooding it is probably not just your house - as you said he's at the bottom of the block. I agree with the other posters who are basically saying 'nip it in the bud'. If he's bold enough to trespass on to your property, 'damage' your property he's got to be a jerk. Who confronts a new neighbor with unproved accusations! Not a good situation but I think it's important to let him know, in no uncertain terms, that you won't be standing still while he walks all over you. Good luck!

 

[momhappy]

^I don't think anyone here has disagreed with the fact that the neighbor should not have taken it upon himself to repair the improper drainage. However, some of us have pointed out that there are always two sides to every story and maybe there are some details here that have not been addressed. Based on the information provided by OP, the improper drainage has been an ongoing issue. I believe that OP said that the previous homeowner ignored the neighbor's requests to move the pipe, so he was likely taking out his frustration on the new homeowners (the OP). This was unfair of him and his actions were still wrong (repairing the pipe himself), but it sounds to me like he was fed up with no communication about when exactly the repairs would be made (but, again, not condoning his behavior).

 

[LaraOnline]

Agree! A flooded basement is seriously bad, damaging to the home and a big health risk.
How do you know your sump pipe was not contributing?

But why couldnt he have nicely asked if it was ok to put an elbow on the pipe and face it towards the street until the ground
melted?

Didn't OP say the house was bought from a flipper?
And that the guy had approached the new owners, saying there was a problem, but had no immediate response?
And in fact the neighbours weren't often home?

Perhaps the guy thought one winter with a flooded basement is enough, had read the signs that the neighbour wasn't concerned about any potential impact on his property, and he didn't want to hang around waiting for the spring thaw?

I mean, the pipe WAS going to be fixed before next winter anyway, right? So where is the harm, if the job has been done reasonably well?

 

[momhappy]

The actual pipe repair is something that I was wondering about too. The term "vandalism" has been used and while I understand that what the neighbor did could be considered a form of vandalism, I wonder about the actual work that was done to the pipe? Did he actually fix the problem? Does the drainage pipe still require additional work (in other words, did the neighbor just perform a temporary fix)? Again, if he fixed the pipe, it doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't have done it without permission, but I wondered if he at least got the job done in an effective manner?

 

[LetItShine]

Thanks everyone for the input! I'll try to give more info and background. First, I would feel awful if my sump pump was contributing to his flooding. I think it's unlikely because of its placement and the fact that it isn't draining a ton of water. When I said it was a bad setup, I meant bad for me. It drains close to my house. Why have a sump pump drain water only to deposit it right next to the foundation. Kind of counter productive. We took possession on March 15. Neighbor came over two weeks later when I was there. He was rude and demanding! I was friendly, apologized, and did make it clear that we would bury the pipe once we could. I'm not sure what the status of the drainage was prior to us and him purchasing our homes. I kind of wonder if he has a pump? Shouldn't his house be tiled with a sump pump? IF my water was running to his property, he should have a sump pump to take care of drainage??? He did approach the flipper. Flipper told me the guy was a jerk and complained about a flooding basement when he had feet of snow covering his windows. Flipper seems like the type not liking to be harassed and probably blew the neighbor off. Fact is...that is between him and the flipper! I didn't own the house then. I would prefer to solve this issue together in a friendly and neighborly way. However, at this point my husband and I are afraid to even approach him. My BIG ISSUE is that he took a saw to a pipe that was attached to MY house. We didn't want to do anything to the pipe until the weather improved. What we had worked. Since we don't live there I didn't want to risk causing water to remain in the pipe to freeze and then flood my basement. For example, it rained and then snowed yesterday. Today it is in the mid 20s. Any water left in the pipe could freeze and potentially flood my basement.

 

[LetItShine]

Here is a picture of the pipe. It basically leaves a puddle in the wood chips. His driveway is next to the pipe, then garage, then foundation. I would estimate 20-30 feet between the pipe and his driveway.

 

[TC1987]

Agree! A flooded basement is seriously bad, damaging to the home and a big health risk.
How do you know your sump pipe was not contributing?

But why couldnt he have nicely asked if it was ok to put an elbow on the pipe and face it towards the street until the ground
melted?

If he has water going into his basement faster than his pump can pump, then he needs a larger capacity pump, because water rolls downhill and always has since the Earth was created. So instead of b___ing to the neighbors, he should be protecting his own interests by either grading his land or redesigning his pumping system. (eta: Or by installing a sump pump or calling B-Dry or something if he has no sump pump now.)

Call the cops, report this unauthorized change. Post the property No Trespassing, plan on a fence just to define your boundary line if nothing else, don't confront the guy because with no video and no witnesses you can't prove anything. Take photos. Get any "before" photos that the real estate agency may have taken. (When I sell things, I take more photos than I use in the ads, so that if I get questions I can just pull up a picture and look at whatever the customer asked about.)

Know anyone you could get to live at the new house until you move, just to keep an eye on things?

 

[LetItShine]

I do drop by the house on an almost daily basis. I called the police department. They suggested I file a report. I really dont want the neighbor to know I called the police because I fear it would escalate the situation. I was told that the report could state that I don't want to press charges. That way no uniformed officers would show up at the house. Seems I could file a report for the records and the neighbor would never have to find out??? I didn't file the report yet...still wondering if its the best course. Maybe when I have my drain brought out to the street he will leave me alone?

 

[movie zombie]

I do drop by the house on an almost daily basis. I called the police department. They suggested I file a report. I really dont want the neighbor to know I called the police because I fear it would escalate the situation. I was told that the report could state that I don't want to press charges. That way no uniformed officers would show up at the house. Seems I could file a report for the records and the neighbor would never have to find out??? I didn't file the report yet...still wondering if its the best course. Maybe when I have my drain brought out to the street he will leave me alone?

you haven't moved in and you're already in fear of the neighbor. not a good thing, imo.

personally, I'd want him to know the police had been called. why? he might actually realize he'd gone too far and in that case he might actually apologize. if he doesn't know then he has not reason to question his decisions or have to take responsibility for them.

good luck. I think you are going to need it.