Need advice on buying a blue sapphire please!

[SG05]

Hi. I'm interested in buying a blue sapphire, 1.5 to slightly over 2 carats, but do not know what to look for in a high quality sapphire. I'm looking for a blue sapphire that is medium to intense blue and preferably untreated. I've read a lot about a "window" in some sapphires, but I can't tell if there is a window in the gems that I've viewed. I would appreciate any advice that will help with my decision process.

I've looked around the gemsny site but have read mixed reviews about them. I'm currently looking at the one below on the mastercutgems site. Is this a good quality gemstone for the cost?

http://mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=6806


And how about these two on gemsfix?

1st one on the 5th row - 1.60 carats, VVS, untreated for $2720.

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html#thumb


Middle one on the 18th row - 1.88 carats, VVS, heat only for $2985.

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html#thumb

Thank you!

 

[SG05]

By the way, this is for an engagement ring. Our budget it to spend no more than $5K on the entire ring, gemstone + setting. Setting will most likely be a platinum solitaire setting.

 

[chrono]

The Mastercut sapphire looks to have good colour and although there is no glaring cut issues, the crown is low, so it's not the sparkler as one might expect. The 2 Gemfix sapphires are better cut but the colouration is far from the intense range you are looking for. I have reservations about the colour accuracy of Mastercut's photography as one sapphire from his website showed more violet and less saturation than pictured.

 

[SG05]

Thanks for the advice, Chrono. I'm new to this site but have found a wealth of information and knowledgeable people on gemstones. I don't have a keen eye for gemstones and I know that buying a gemstone is not as straightforward as purchasing a diamond. I didn't know where to start looking but this site has been helpful. Now that I have an idea of where to look, I just have to find a quality gemstone to buy, but will need guidance as I really can't tell a good one from a bad one.

 

[SG05]

We stopped by a local jeweler and they showed us this sapphire from one of their gemstone vendors. But they were only able to show it to us online. I can't tell from the pic if this is a quality stone. All they told us is that it's 1.75 ct and 6.8mm. I have asked for more details and will update this post once I get them.

 

[chrono]

Because the background of the original picture has been removed, the picture tells me little about the stone. Knowing the lighting condition (from the shadows and angle of light) helps me gauge the tone (how light or dark) the stone is. Seeing it on the back of the hand helps with colour accuracy so I can gauge the saturation (pop of colour or vividness). All I can with surety is that it is eye clean and the cut isn't too shabby.

Heated or untreated? Any proof of that?

 

[pregcurious]

Can you tell us more about what you are looking for?

For size, how many mm? Carat size is difficult for colored stones because there is no "ideal" cut like diamonds. Sapphire is also more dense than diamond, so 1 carat sapphire will be smaller than a similarly cute diamond.

What shape?

Do you have a picture of the color you are seeking? Do you mind color shift to violet/purple? How much grey can you accept?

This recent thread has a lot of feedback about color of stones and may help you determine what color you prefer. The stones on Simply Sapphires have also been sifted through for the ones that look decent in pictures, so you may be able to find one that you like.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/color-blind-and-bad-eyesight-need-help-buying-sapphire-plz.185334/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/color-blind-and-bad-eyesight-need-help-buying-sapphire-plz.185334/[/URL]

 

[minousbijoux]

Unfortunately, you really can't tell much from the photo, as there are no visual cues to inform you as to whether its accurate or not. Many photos of gems have been enhanced - whether intentionally or unintentionally. Taking photos of dark stones and flooding them with light can make them look brighter and intensely saturated when in reality, in almost any lighting condition except for bright light, they'll just read as dark.

That said, if that color is accurate for the stone - which I doubt it is just because its so hard to get accurate photos of stones - then it looks to be a medium dark stone with excellent saturation. But from my experience, I would say its highly likely that the photo enhances the color.

 

[SG05]

Hi. We did some more shopping and came across this sapphire. My fiance really likes it and is interested in purchasing it. What do you PSers think? Thanks for any advice for us newbies to gemstones!

1.96 cts
6.92mm
Step cut
Heated treatment only
Origin: Sri Lanka
Cost: $3920

 

[pregcurious]

I can't see much from the photo. You mentioned it's step cut, but I can't see the cut. It looks like a round stone.

 

[chrono]

Brilliant mixed step cut? How is the indoor colour? Is the colouration even from the top? Your picture is too blurry and far away to make anything out.

 

[michellechan2211]

...Is there a window on the stone? It seems to look like it from your pictures, but since they are blurred I can't tell for sure. Ditto for the cut and color.

 

[OTL]

Hi. We did some more shopping and came across this sapphire. My fiance really likes it and is interested in purchasing it. What do you PSers think? Thanks for any advice for us newbies to gemstones!

1.96 cts
6.92mm
Step cut
Heated treatment only
Origin: Sri Lanka
Cost: $3920

That's pretty pricy for a near 2ct heated sapphire. Looks like the saturation is not very strong either.

 

[LD]

I like the colour and it looks lively. The advantage of this colour is that there's very little grey and I suspect this will look good in most lighting conditions (unlike other colours). If it's a brilliant step cut then the play from the facets may make it a nice sparkler.

My main concern from your photo is that it looks like there may be a window (see photos below). You can only judge this by looking head on at the stone so you'll have to tell us what you see or post a different photo.

If it does have a window, it may well affect the performance (although it will be less apparent when on the finger).

What do you think?

 

[SG05]

Thank you all for your comments.

Hi LD - I do think there's a window in the center of the stone. When we first looked at it, I mentioned it to the jeweler, and he said that it's normal to have some kind of window for the light to reflect through. I found that answer to be a bit odd. I read the piece that you posted on "must read for newbies to gemstones" and didn't think that having a window is a normal or good thing to have on a stone. (By the way, that was an excellent and very educational write-up. I learned a lot from reading it!) The stone is quite brilliant from most angles, but when I look straight down on it, I do see a window. I've asked the jeweler to send more close up pics of the sapphire, and once I get them, I'll update this post.

 

[chrono]

The jeweller's comment on windows is very puzzling. A window is essentially light leakage, meaning colour is NOT reflected back to the eye because it goes straight though and out the stone. For the price of the stone ($2K/ct for something heated), I would not want such a large window as it would affect my enjoyment of it.

 

[LD]

Thank you all for your comments.

Hi LD - I do think there's a window in the center of the stone. When we first looked at it, I mentioned it to the jeweler, and he said that it's normal to have some kind of window for the light to reflect through. I found that answer to be a bit odd. I read the piece that you posted on "must read for newbies to gemstones" and didn't think that having a window is a normal or good thing to have on a stone. (By the way, that was an excellent and very educational write-up. I learned a lot from reading it!) The stone is quite brilliant from most angles, but when I look straight down on it, I do see a window. I've asked the jeweler to send more close up pics of the sapphire, and once I get them, I'll update this post.

Oh my goodness this had me roaring with laughter! What a dreadful (untrue) thing to say to a customer. I would have serious doubts about him because he's either (a) incompetent or (b) untrustworthy.

The acid test for this stone is to go in again and put it on your finger (in the holder or between 2 of your fingers). That will tell you if the window is likely to minimise in a setting. It won't totally disappear but may be less obvious. What I would say is that it's quite expensive and I would use the window as a bargaining chip. If he thinks you'll walk away, you could haggle to get a better price. PLEASE do haggle. Jewellers are not making great money at the moment and so a sale is a sale!

Lastly, I just want to check that this stone has a lab report? I know you've said it's heated only but have you seen the documentation to back that up? If not, please ask to see it. If it's not from a trusted lab and you still want to buy it, make the sale conditional on the stone being sent to a lab (preferably AGL) and coming back saying heated only. If you want, you could offer to pay for the report IF it's favourable but if it comes back unfavourable, the jeweller has to pay. Don't part with money though until the stone and report are back. I'll watch with interest!

BTW I'm glad you took the time to read the sticky and also enjoyed it. Thank you for the kind words.

 

[SG05]

LD - Good advice! I do think the price was a bit high and given that he could not provide any lab report for the stone, I was hesitant to purchase it. I will definitely ask for a report to be done and haggle on the price, if I decide to purchase this stone. But in the meantime, the jeweler has sent some more pics of the sapphire...these should be more clear than the first two pics.

 

[chrono]

Much better pictures! Looks like a lovely medium blue that is very bright. I don't expect this one to gray out or black out but if interested in this sapphire, I would confirm that first. Getting a lab report isn't expensive or difficult if you are in the US. An AGL brief runs around $55 thereabouts and takes a week to 2 weeks. Definitely haggle hard on this one if you like it a lot. I don't see a window in the hand shot so it should be all right once set.

ETA
I am not sure if I'm only seeing regular brilliance contrast or if the sapphire is colour zoned from the photographs. I would also make sure the colouration is even and not splotchy, which is different from brilliance contrast (this one moves around as you move the stone so that it looks lively).

 

[SG05]

Thanks Chrono. We definitely plan to haggle down the price if we go with this stone.

My fiance is now considering between the above medium blue sapphire and the below sapphire. This one is 1.77ct, 7.01mm, heated treatment only, and from Sri Lanka. See pics below.







From my amateur eyes, I like this one better because it's darker blue, which I prefer, and it's very brilliant. But it does cost more. It's about $3,000/ct. So what do you expert PSers think? Thanks all!

 

[chrono]

$3000/ct for a heated blue sapphire that is under 2 carats? The two pictures you posted were taken with the flash on, which distorts the colour. Can you take pictures with the flash function turned off? You will need stronger lighting to compensate for the lack of flash though.

 

[pregcurious]

I like the way the medium blue sapphire looks in the new photos.

The medium-dark sapphire looks like it has a strong purple modifier? I guess pics without a flash will tell the story better. You can ask how the color shifts under different light (daylight morning/noon, incandescent, fluorescent). It is common for this darker color to shift.

The comment about the window from the vendor is bizarre. I once had someone try to sell me a pink tourmaline as an everyday ring, and when I brought up durability compared to a pink sapphire, he gave me a long story about how they were similar. I walked away and haven't visited the store since.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but the lighter sapphire looks like it has just a hair of green in it to me. Kinda looks like a very blue aquamarine (but with all the powers of Corundum!) Please someone dispute this if I'm seeing things that aren't there.

Not necessarily bad, but another bargaining chip if you decide to pursue stone #1, since green is not trade-preferred.

 

[pregcurious]

I do see a little green in the last shot, but overall the color looks good. SG05, my only concern is how much you are paying. It sounds like you are paying "trade" top-color prices, and I would expect a vivid blue with a very tiny purple modifier. I personally like the color of your medium sapphire very much, but would not be willing to pay "trade" top-color prices for it.

 

[chrono]

I do see a little green in the last shot, but overall the color looks good. SG05, my only concern is how much you are paying. It sounds like you are paying "trade" top-color prices, and I would expect a vivid blue with a very tiny purple modifier. I personally like the color of your medium sapphire very much, but would not be willing to pay "trade" top-color prices for it.

+1
I see a hint of green in the first sapphire but only in the last angled shot. Ditto also for the pricing being the only concern as everything else seem all right at first glance. I take it you have not seen these stones in person or have you?

 

[pregcurious]

Just a general question for everyone. Do you think it's better to negotiate price before you receive the gem, or after you receive it and it does not meet expectations based on the vendor's photo and description?

 

[chrono]

I've done it both ways as it depends on how well I know the vendor and their photo colour accuracy. It is best to negotiate once you've seen the stone though as you would know exactly what you are getting and know what it is worth to you as the buyer. You'll be in a better position to list the cons as your bargaining chip.

In rare cases where I know the vendor well, I'll make an offer first with the promise to purchase if accepted. The review and return period still holds though.

 

[slksapphire]

SG05,

justin_cutter recently posted the following from his trip to the tucson show. these are RETAIL prices (not wholesale) ... i have included all of justin's caveats so that we don't necessarily conclude that his pricing is definitive, but i think it is certainly demonstrative of the current market.

"I will try my best but blue sapphire prices are not that easy to be extremely acurate with. So like you said these prices are "rough ideas"

3 Carat Blue Sapphire
Medium to Medium Dark Blue Tone
Strong Saturation
Eye Clean
Good Cut
Heat Treatment Only

In 2012 this stone would be in the range of $1250-$1800 per carat. Now its $1500-$2150 per carat."

i am assuming that this is for very good color (maybe not tippy top, but close). any deviations from the metrics above, i.e., color, window (cut), zoning, etc would warrant discounts.

 

[chrono]

There are price jumps per carat at the 1 ct, 2 ct and 3 ct marks so since these are under 2 carats, the price per carat should be less than what Justin listed.

 

[SG05]

Thanks for all the input, folks!

Hi LD & pregcurious - I agree that the comment made by the jeweler about the window in the first stone is quite odd and makes me question his honesty. It makes me hesitant to want to do business with someone that is untrustworthy.

Hi Chrono - I'll have to get better pics of the 2nd gemstone, but the lighting in the store wasn't too bright, so we tried using flash to better see the stone. I didn't mean to distort the color, but when compared in person, the 2nd stone is a more intense blue than the first. It's hard to tell from the pics. As for pricing, I do think both stones are overpriced and will need to do some haggling before purchasing either one. I have seen both stones in person, and can say that based on my amateur eyes, the 2nd stone looked like a higher quality stone. I'll have to return to the store to get better pics, so I'll re-post when I get them.

Hi slksapphire - Thanks for posting those estimate prices. At least that gives me an idea of how much it should cost.