Home Need Advice - Money Situation

[lucyandroger]

I just got a really tough phone call and I need some advice. My dad just called to ask me if he could borrow almost a thousand dollars to make his rent this month. I''m in shock and conflicted. I told him that I would because I''m a people-pleaser and well, I didn''t know how else to react.

I called my BF and he said that he would understand either decision I made - to go through with lending the money or not and that it was my decision to make.

Here''s some background:

BF and I are in the middle of buying a house.

I make a lot more money than either of my parents.

My parents are divorced and my dad has been out of work/ taking odd jobs for a few years now. His girlfriend has been supporting him. I''d rather not go into how he lost his job originally but it was his fault and I''ve since forgiven him.

I don''t know why the GF isn''t helping to pay his rent this month and I didn''t ask. It''s a weird situation that I don''t approve of.

I paid for my dad''s full trip (hotel, airfare, food) to go to my brother''s wedding in Dec.

I paid my way through college by working and through scholarships. I took out student loans and worked in the summer to put myself through law school without any financial support from my parents. I''m currently paying off those loans and it''s not cheap!

BF and I do have the money to lend to my dad but things are tight because of the house we''re buying and we''d like to get married soon so really we''d like to start saving for a wedding and paying off our student loans. We certainly don''t have money to be throwing around. We are quite frugal, especially for our age and income.

My dad didn''t mention when he''d pay the money back. He sounded so defeated on the phone and I know I must be the last person he wants to ask for money. What should I do?

 

[crystalheart1]

Wow, I give you a great deal of credit for doing everything on your own.. This is really great and very impressive. I am a single parent and have worked two jobs years when necessary so I could provide for my boys.

I am a bit confussed.. in the begining of your post you already said you told your Dad you would loan him the money.. but then asked what you should do..


This is only my opinion, but given your situation and the money you have already given him, I would find it very difficult
to give him additional money.. I don''t think you should be the one to bail him out. Are you certain it is for the rent??

I hope he can find a job or way to earn his money

Best of luck .. you sound like a very kind, caring person.

 

[cara]

Couple of thoughts. Your post didn't include any big red flags that would indicate this 'borrowing' of money is a lifelong habit of a manipulative user, or he's a drug user that is going to shoot your loan money up his arm.

My concerns would be:
1) He didn't mention any timeline for paying you back, it doesn't sound like he's got a good plan for paying you back, so you shouldn't expect the money to be paid back in a timely fashion if at all. (Good rule for loans to close family - consider it a gift so as to not have it destroy the relationship.)

2) If this is rent money to a strapped, underemployed person, what is his plan for next month? You don't really want to be prolonging some inevitable reckoning, if he's only going to fall behind next month after you save his butt this month.

Number two is probably the one thing I'd deal with tackling with some gentle questions. If he feels defeated then you do want to tread carefully but just enough to make sure that giving him the money, and him paying the rent, is really the right use of your resources in an effort to help him.

Good luck, sounds like a tough spot. But he is family.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 7/29/2009 1:05:05 PM
Author: crystalheart1
Wow, I give you a great deal of credit for doing everything on your own.. This is really great and very impressive. I am a single parent and have worked two jobs years when necessary so I could provide for my boys.

I am a bit confussed.. in the begining of your post you already said you told your Dad you would loan him the money.. but then asked what you should do..


This is only my opinion, but given your situation and the money you have already given him, I would find it very difficult
to give him additional money.. I don''t think you should be the one to bail him out. Are you certain it is for the rent??

I hope he can find a job or way to earn his money

Best of luck .. you sound like a very kind, caring person.

Thank you, Crystalheart.

I did tell him I would lend him the money but it was because I was kind of put on the spot. My first reaction is always to say yes. Then when I got off the phone, I just felt sick and upset that he put me in this position, knowing what I''ve been through and what I hope to accomplish in the near future.

I can''t be certain the money is for rent but he doesn''t have any addictions or anything and I don''t think he would come to me unless it were extremely important.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 7/29/2009 1:05:11 PM
Author: cara
Couple of thoughts. Your post didn''t include any big red flags that would indicate this ''borrowing'' of money is a lifelong habit of a manipulative user, or he''s a drug user that is going to shoot your loan money up his arm.

My concerns would be:
1) He didn''t mention any timeline for paying you back, it doesn''t sound like he''s got a good plan for paying you back, so you shouldn''t expect the money to be paid back in a timely fashion if at all. (Good rule for loans to close family - consider it a gift so as to not have it destroy the relationship.)

2) If this is rent money to a strapped, underemployed person, what is his plan for next month? You don''t really want to be prolonging some inevitable reckoning, if he''s only going to fall behind next month after you save his butt this month.

Number two is probably the one thing I''d deal with tackling with some gentle questions. If he feels defeated then you do want to tread carefully but just enough to make sure that giving him the money, and him paying the rent, is really the right use of your resources in an effort to help him.

Good luck, sounds like a tough spot. But he is family.

Thanks for responding, Cara. You definitely hit on my concerns. He''s never borrowed money from me before but his gf has been supporting him the past few years and he filed for bankruptcy a few years back as well. He doesn''t have a drug problem so I know it''s not for that.

I think you''re right to try to tackle conern number two. I just don''t know how to do it. His pride is hurt and it''s such an awkward situation. I used to be more involved in the situation years ago but I had to distance myself so that I could focus on getting myself where I needed to be.

 

[Lilac]

I think it''s hard to say no if he really needs the help this month (especially if you did already tell him you would on the phone).

However, if you do lend him the money I think you should make it clear that this is a one time thing - make it very clear to him that you''re trying to save for a wedding, your house, and paying off your student loans so this is it - he can''t ask for more because you can''t afford to help him again.

Good luck with this - it doesn''t sound like an easy situation and I hope it all works out for both you and your father.

 

[movie zombie]

personally, i wouldn''t lend him the $. never lend what you''re going to be upset about not getting back.

however, i''d give him the $ but i''d tell him to never ever ask for more $ again. this is a one time gift. but mean it. i''m betting he will ask you again so be prepared to say no. he''s in control of his life. he''s made the decisions that have gotten him into this situation. he needs to deal with the consequences.

mz

ps congrats on being self-sufficent and paying your college loans. the nasty side of me says you can''t give him the $ because you''re still paying those off......

 

[Circe]

I think I''m going to be going against the grain here, but I think you should loan/give him the money, because at the end of the day ... he''s your dad.

I understand how difficult that is, when you''re trying to establish yourself in life. I understand how unfair that is, when it''s inevitable for you to look around and think, huh, other people''s parents give *them* money. I think it sucks. But he''s still your dad.

If it was an addiction issue, where he would use your loan to hurt himself, I''d tell you to say no. If it looked to be the gateway to supporting your dad for life, I''d tell you to tell him that you''d do what you could, but you couldn''t do *that,* and help him explore the various forms of social assistance that are out there. But it''s the first time he''s done this, it looks like he is deeply aware of how ignominious it is, and, again ... he''s your dad.

Loan him the money, and chalk it up to being a really good human being.

P.S. - All that said, check in with your brother, and see if he''s heard anything from/about your dad recently, just to be sure that this isn''t the tip of the iceberg on any of the more frightening scenarios ....

 

[atroop711]

I may be in the minority here but I would lend him the money. With the way the economy is, many ppl who usually have the money (like your dad''s gf) find themselves unable to make rent...many for the first time in their lives.

Sit with him and discuss a timeline of repayment. Tell him this has to be it...with the impending purchase of the house you cannot keep helping out.

GL

 

[pinkstars]

I would lend the money. If it really wouldn''t hurt anything else going on with you, I would do it. I can absolutely see not wanting to do it and if you really don''t want to or feel uncomfortable doing it, then I would suggest not loaning the money out.

 

[lucyandroger]

Thank you Lilac and MZ.

And thank you Circe, atroop, and pinkstars for giving your opinions to go ahead and lend/give the money. Family is so much more important to me than money but I guess I''m afraid that I''m going to be taken advantage of. I appreciate reading your thoughts and it makes me feel better about already telling him that I would lend the money.

Just another thought...

BF''s parents have graciously offered to pay our last month''s rent as a house-warming gift. Isn''t it wrong to accept money from BF''s parents just to hand money over to my dad?

 

[cara]

Just wanted to clarify that my tentative feeling is that you should *gift* him the money. Even though it doesn't sound like you have the best relationship with him, you don't want this money to be it's downfall. Even if you call it a loan that you are mentally prepared to lose, it will affect how he feels toward you (at least if your read is right, that he is completely defeated to have to ask you for money.). And while he hasn't been the greatest father to you or the most responsible person, he is a family member who has fallen on hard times and you are in a position to help without too much stretching on your part. I'd be concerned about my money being for naught ( if his financial troubles persist) but that may be a risk you'll have to bear to help him out.

 

[tigian]

If it were me, I would lend him the money. I'm sure, being your dad and all, you were his last resort and when he is able to pay you back, he will. My only concern would be what is he going to do next month. I would ask him point blank and let him know that I can only afford to help out this month for rent. I would also reiterate that money is tight because you have other obligations in your life as well. Good luck! It is so hard to deal with family and money issues.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 7/29/2009 2:11:49 PM
Author: lucyandroger
Thank you Lilac and MZ.

And thank you Circe, atroop, and pinkstars for giving your opinions to go ahead and lend/give the money. Family is so much more important to me than money but I guess I'm afraid that I'm going to be taken advantage of. I appreciate reading your thoughts and it makes me feel better about already telling him that I would lend the money.

Just another thought...

BF's parents have graciously offered to pay our last month's rent as a house-warming gift. Isn't it wrong to accept money from BF's parents just to hand money over to my dad?

I would give him the money and tell him not to worry about paying it back, but again, as others mentioned, that this really can only be a one time thing. With that said, I would also want to know how far behind they are on rent. They could be several months behind, and I suspect that they might be if he is asking you for the money now. Why isn't the gf paying? Will she in the future? Is he actively looking for employment? If not, how can you help him in that regard?

As to your question above, no it is not wrong. It sounds like you have the money to give him, regardless of their gift. It's not like your BF's parents' $$ is going to be earmarked and handed over to your father. Money comes and money goes. These are two completely unrelated transactions.

Sorry you have to deal with this. I hope it is an isolated incident and that your father gets back on his feet soon.

 

[lucyandroger]

Thanks again, Cara. I get what you''re saying.

Thanks Loves Vintage and Tigian, as well.


I guess this has hit me so hard because I was finally getting over the resentment of having to "do it on my own." Now that I''ve finally "made it," I''m expected to just give up a large chunk of money to someone who wasn''t always there for me and never there for me financially. BF and I hate our jobs but we''re working them because they pay well and we have some things we want to accomplish. Then we want to get jobs with more reasonable hours. We''re so careful with how we spend every cent because we know every dollar that doesn''t go towards the house, wedding, or loans is another day we have to work at these jobs. So I guess it just hurts.

I mean technically we have the money in that it is in my bank account but we owe six figures each in student loans and are buying a house so...no, we don''t actually have the money. ugh.

I wrote the check. I''m preparing to send it off. I guess this is just another case of you can''t choose your parents.

 

[lyra]

If you''re going to give the money, can you make out a check directly to the landlord? Then you know the money truly is going for rent. I''m not against supporting family, but I don''t go along with enabling bad habits. I would also expect honesty from him as to how he ended up in this situation. Not in the form of an accusation, but more like making sure he isn''t in over his head in something that can be solved somehow. If that makes sense.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 7/29/2009 2:12:24 PM
Author: cara
Just wanted to clarify that my tentative feeling is that you should *gift* him the money. Even though it doesn''t sound like you have the best relationship with him, you don''t want this money to be it''s downfall. Even if you call it a loan that you are mentally prepared to lose, it will affect how he feels toward you (at least if your read is right, that he is completely defeated to have to ask you for money.). And while he hasn''t been the greatest father to you or the most responsible person, he is a family member who has fallen on hard times and you are in a position to help without too much stretching on your part. I''d be concerned about my money being for naught ( if his financial troubles persist) but that may be a risk you''ll have to bear to help him out.

I agree, but I would make it clear that it''s a one time loan/gift and you will not be willing or able to do it again.

 

[Haven]

I can''t really give you advice about whether or not you should lend or gift the money to your father because my own relationship with my father is so strained I can''t put myself in that situation.

However, I do want to add a word of caution, here. People will take and take and take as long as you''re willing to give, and you *really* must be able to stop giving after this one time gift, if you choose to give it at all, because my guess is that he will come back and ask for more in the future.

My father''s family borrowed money from my parents for the entire 30 years of their marriage. $50 here, $500 there, it was never enough. And my parents didn''t really have it to give, but my father didn''t know how to say no. (Meanwhile, they didn''t have enough to pay for my education, or much else, either.) My aunt ended up borrowing money from my dad''s good friend, too.

In the end, I don''t think all that money helped his family do anything but become dependent on other people. I''m not saying this is what is going to happen with your father, but I just wanted to share that it *does* happen, especially with family.

 

[purrfectpear]

Daddy made sure you had a roof over your head, clothes on your back, some toys, and food in your tummy for at least 16 to 18 years. You cost him more than $100K, probably wayyyy over that. He sure didn''t present you with a bill did he? He did it out of love.

You admit you outgross your parents substantially. Do you really have to ask what to do? He''s unemployed, he needs help. He''s your dad.

 

[janinegirly]

I would lend it without questions and not re-hash old issues or think of the possessions you are trying to save for. Based on what you''ve described, he came to you out of need, and was embarrassed--and this is not a pattern, and like others have said, he is your dad.

Lend it and don''t dwell on it. Now if it keeps happening and you start to feel taken advantage of, then look into it deeper as in that case it will start to impact your life. $1000 one time won''t change much.

 

[nycbkgirl]

Date: 7/29/2009 4:27:33 PM
Author: janinegirly
I would lend it without questions and not re-hash old issues or think of the possessions you are trying to save for. Based on what you''ve described, he came to you out of need, and was embarrassed--and this is not a pattern, and like others have said, he is your dad.

Lend it and don''t dwell on it. Now if it keeps happening and you start to feel taken advantage of, then look into it deeper as in that case it will start to impact your life. $1000 one time won''t change much.

+1. ditto ditto...why is it i always agree with u

i would never make it a continuing habit but it seems he really is in need. ive been in this situation many times with family members and i never regret it at the end of the day bc money comes and goes, ur fam is ur blood and life.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 7/29/2009 4:10:04 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Daddy made sure you had a roof over your head, clothes on your back, some toys, and food in your tummy for at least 16 to 18 years. You cost him more than $100K, probably wayyyy over that. He sure didn''t present you with a bill did he? He did it out of love.

You admit you outgross your parents substantially. Do you really have to ask what to do? He''s unemployed, he needs help. He''s your dad.

Thanks for your opinion, PP.

I had a longer response written but decided against posting it. Suffice it to say that my father has made some terrible decisions in life to get to this point and your assumptions about what he has given me are inaccurate.

 

[sparklyheart]

Date: 7/29/2009 4:43:32 PM
Author: nycbkgirl

Date: 7/29/2009 4:27:33 PM
Author: janinegirly
I would lend it without questions and not re-hash old issues or think of the possessions you are trying to save for. Based on what you''ve described, he came to you out of need, and was embarrassed--and this is not a pattern, and like others have said, he is your dad.

Lend it and don''t dwell on it. Now if it keeps happening and you start to feel taken advantage of, then look into it deeper as in that case it will start to impact your life. $1000 one time won''t change much.

+1. ditto ditto...why is it i always agree with u

i would never make it a continuing habit but it seems he really is in need. ive been in this situation many times with family members and i never regret it at the end of the day bc money comes and goes, ur fam is ur blood and life.

+2
I know so many people who have paid their own way through college, their own wedding, their own everything as soon as they left their parents'' house.. This doesn''t mean they have bad parents, they just may not have rich parents or parents who were able/willing to save for whatever reasons. Family is family and everyone needs a helping hand every now and then. I would make clear that this is a one time thing though and stick to it. If you were struggling to pay your rent/mortgage one month because your car broke down, you got fired, or you had some other major unexpected expense, I''m sure you would appreciate your family being there for you. The fact that you paid for his trip means he probably doesn''t have much money just lying around so one big hit to his checkbook could be so devastating.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 7/29/2009 4:27:33 PM
Author: janinegirly
I would lend it without questions and not re-hash old issues or think of the possessions you are trying to save for. Based on what you''ve described, he came to you out of need, and was embarrassed--and this is not a pattern, and like others have said, he is your dad.

Lend it and don''t dwell on it. Now if it keeps happening and you start to feel taken advantage of, then look into it deeper as in that case it will start to impact your life. $1000 one time won''t change much.

Thanks for your opinon, janinegirly.

I did go ahead and send the check. However, $1000 is quite a bit of money to me, especially while I''m in the middle of buying a house and have huge loans to pay off. So this is a big deal but I''m willing to do it for him because he is my family.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 7/29/2009 4:55:46 PM
Author: sparklyheart

Date: 7/29/2009 4:43:32 PM
Author: nycbkgirl

Date: 7/29/2009 4:27:33 PM
Author: janinegirly
I would lend it without questions and not re-hash old issues or think of the possessions you are trying to save for. Based on what you've described, he came to you out of need, and was embarrassed--and this is not a pattern, and like others have said, he is your dad.

Lend it and don't dwell on it. Now if it keeps happening and you start to feel taken advantage of, then look into it deeper as in that case it will start to impact your life. $1000 one time won't change much.

+1. ditto ditto...why is it i always agree with u

i would never make it a continuing habit but it seems he really is in need. ive been in this situation many times with family members and i never regret it at the end of the day bc money comes and goes, ur fam is ur blood and life.

+2
I know so many people who have paid their own way through college, their own wedding, their own everything as soon as they left their parents' house.. This doesn't mean they have bad parents, they just may not have rich parents or parents who were able/willing to save for whatever reasons. Family is family and everyone needs a helping hand every now and then. I would make clear that this is a one time thing though and stick to it. If you were struggling to pay your rent/mortgage one month because your car broke down, you got fired, or you had some other major unexpected expense, I'm sure you would appreciate your family being there for you. The fact that you paid for his trip means he probably doesn't have much money just lying around so one big hit to his checkbook could be so devastating.

Just to make it clear. My dad hasn't had a steady job for over 7 years now. He has been leaning on his gf for financial support and she put up with it because she has low self esteem and wanted him around. I mentioned in the original post that this was a situation I disapprove of. There was no emergency that has made it difficult for him to pay the rent.

If my dad was working a steady job and got late on a couple payments for some reason, there would be no question that I would help him. This is a very different situation.

This is all a moot point anyway because I sent him the check.

 

[Bia]

I think you did the right thing. If it becomes habitual after this, then you know you have to draw the line.

 

[lucyandroger]

UPDATE

Well I just had a conversation with my dad. He''s in a really bad place - has realized that he''s gotten himself into a very bad situation and has no plan for next month''s rent. I didn''t ask but it seems like he and the gf have broken up. He''s depressed and doesn''t know where to go from here. He''s still mourning the job he lost several years ago.

I''ve convinced him to relocate to the city where I live and start his life over. The economy is stronger here and the cost of living is cheaper. He''s going to come down next weekend to apply for jobs. He needs a fresh start.

 

[beau13]

Date: 7/29/2009 1:45:57 PM
Author: Circe
I think I''m going to be going against the grain here, but I think you should loan/give him the money, because at the end of the day ... he''s your dad.

I understand how difficult that is, when you''re trying to establish yourself in life. I understand how unfair that is, when it''s inevitable for you to look around and think, huh, other people''s parents give *them* money. I think it sucks. But he''s still your dad.

If it was an addiction issue, where he would use your loan to hurt himself, I''d tell you to say no. If it looked to be the gateway to supporting your dad for life, I''d tell you to tell him that you''d do what you could, but you couldn''t do *that,* and help him explore the various forms of social assistance that are out there. But it''s the first time he''s done this, it looks like he is deeply aware of how ignominious it is, and, again ... he''s your dad.

Loan him the money, and chalk it up to being a really good human being.

P.S. - All that said, check in with your brother, and see if he''s heard anything from/about your dad recently, just to be sure that this isn''t the tip of the iceberg on any of the more frightening scenarios ....

I totally agree. I don''t know how many times I gave my dad money (even though he was too proud to take it), I knew he needed it to make ends meet.
Now that my father is gone (2 weeks ago), I can reflect, and feel soooo good, for helping him out, and I know he appreciated all I did. I think I was a pretty good daughter, and that makes me feel good knowing it! After all he did for me as a child, I could never refuse to help him out in any way, even if it involved $$. He never had money, what little money he did have, my mother managed to take with her when she left. He could never afford to give me material things growing up, but he did leave me with fantastic memories, spending time together, we were very close! I would feel awful for not giving, or lending him the money (even if I couldn''t afford to, I''d do whatever it took to find the cash), because as Circe said ..he is your dad afterall!

 

[VRBeauty]

What a difficult situation for you to be in! Kudos for giving your dad a helping hand and some sound advice. I hope this transition is a good one for him -- and I trust you''ll watch those boundaries to be sure that you''re helping your father change his lifestyle, not support the lifestyle that''s not working (in more ways than one!).

Good luck!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/29/2009 5:50:36 PM
Author: lucyandroger
UPDATE

Well I just had a conversation with my dad. He''s in a really bad place - has realized that he''s gotten himself into a very bad situation and has no plan for next month''s rent. I didn''t ask but it seems like he and the gf have broken up. He''s depressed and doesn''t know where to go from here. He''s still mourning the job he lost several years ago.

I''ve convinced him to relocate to the city where I live and start his life over. The economy is stronger here and the cost of living is cheaper. He''s going to come down next weekend to apply for jobs. He needs a fresh start.

Great to hear the update. I hope things turn out well. Having gone through this with my dad (he never recovered financially), I know how it goes. At the end of the day, he was my dad, regardless of the hard times we went through with him and my last words to him as he died was that I was proud to be his daughter.