NBC dateline ...any1 see this?

[lauralu]

ETA: hmmmmmmmmm going back to try to fix the linky..sorry it's not working. it is interesting though. Really puts into light how bad the diamonds at the B and M stores can be if your not careful.

lets see if this works

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8661995/

 

[lauralu]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA we have lift off....click on the link than launch the free video.

A sales manager from a jewelry store that we recently visited sent this to us. They claim to have the most accurately graded stones in the B an M stores. He just might around my neck of the woods. However, he just cannot quiet beat the online vender prices.

 

[John P]

I hope Andrey will pin this thread.

Some time ago I was trying, and failing, to describe to some of my peers outside the US what this video covers: The confusion and deception associated with reports saturating our mainstream markets. Particularly showcased are those common IGI report-appraisals (it's about time).

I'm sure our consumer-regulars who walkabout the malls will not be surprised by this story. In my opinion it's equally important for some of our professional friends abroad to see it.

Cheers to Dateline. (Also, Cap looked mighty handsome didn't he?)

 

[John P]

This speaks volumes: Even at the end of the expose' NBC did not understand that grading reports and appraisal-valuations can be separate... They were referred to throughout the video as being the same document, which isn't surprising considering the frequency of such documents in the marketplace.

"Those prices came from the marketing imagination, I believe, of the retailer and the laboratory." - Don Palmieri

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

John you realize this is 3 years old?
Not that anything has changed.

I am sure we could do a better job than this glossing over the top journalism.
Any ideas?

 

[John P]

Date: 8/28/2008 9:45:44 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

John you realize this is 3 years old?
Not that anything has changed.

Thanks Garry, I didn't - I wish I'd had the link a few weeks ago. Bizarre that I don't remember it from '06...Alzheimer's or the grape methinks. You're right, not much has changed. It's still illuminating.

I am sure we could do a better job than this glossing over the top journalism.
Any ideas?

Yes, but it would take the efforts of a lot of Pricescopers.

 

[strmrdr]

Here is the original thread on it:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/secrets-of-the-diamond-industry-dateline.31497/

 

[John P]

Thanks for the pin Andrey. My urgency is slightly dampened by Garry pointing out the vintage, but it remains a good reset.

Strm, you found it... Apparently when this came out I was avoiding its "hidden secrets."

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/28/2008 10:19:05 PM
Author: John Pollard
Thanks for the pin Andrey. My urgency is slightly dampened by Garry pointing out the vintage, but it remains a good reset.


Strm, you found it... Apparently when this came out I was avoiding its ''hidden secrets.''

I think its good to bring it up again.
There are likely a bunch of people here who haven''t seen it.
Nothing has changed in that area since it was produced so its still relevant.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/28/2008 9:55:53 PM
Author: John Pollard

I am sure we could do a better job than this glossing over the top journalism.
Any ideas?

Yes, but it would take the efforts of a lot of Pricescopers.

Hey - great idea John.

What if lots of us went into stores and took ideal-scope photo''s, posted them.
Got verbal quotes from salespeople
Maybe some people might feel up to video''ing sales pitches
Record with mobile phones and Andrey could make some tool to post them?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

It should also be stuff from online vendors

Bloopers?

 

[John P]

Date: 8/28/2008 10:26:19 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/28/2008 9:55:53 PM
Author: John Pollard

I am sure we could do a better job than this glossing over the top journalism.
Any ideas?

Yes, but it would take the efforts of a lot of Pricescopers.

Hey - great idea John.

What if lots of us went into stores and took ideal-scope photo''s, posted them.
Got verbal quotes from salespeople
Maybe some people might feel up to video''ing sales pitches
Record with mobile phones and Andrey could make some tool to post them?

Garry, if "Ozzie" was an olympic sport you''d be a gold medalist.

My stylings would be designed not to result in fisticuffs or brouhahas...but I''m a lover not a fyter, mate.

 

[John P]

Date: 8/28/2008 10:26:07 PM
Author: strmrdr

I think its good to bring it up again.
There are likely a bunch of people here who haven''t seen it.
Nothing has changed in that area since it was produced so its still relevant.

Interesting that GIA was not shown at all, except once when several reports were collaged together (and it could have been a dossier?).

Also interesting that when they said "except in one case, none of the diamonds was graded the same by Beesley and the labs" they showed a diamond in a temp setting with BN''s logo behind it.

 

[ButterBean]

Date: 8/28/2008 9:55:53 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 8/28/2008 9:45:44 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

John you realize this is 3 years old?
Not that anything has changed.

Thanks Garry, I didn''t - I wish I''d had the link a few weeks ago. Bizarre that I don''t remember it from ''06...Alzheimer''s or the grape methinks. You''re right, not much has changed. It''s still illuminating.

I am sure we could do a better job than this glossing over the top journalism.
Any ideas?

Yes, but it would take the efforts of a lot of Pricescopers.

Point me to the sign-up sheet!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/28/2008 10:37:14 PM
Author: ButterBean

Date: 8/28/2008 9:55:53 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 8/28/2008 9:45:44 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

John you realize this is 3 years old?
Not that anything has changed.

Thanks Garry, I didn''t - I wish I''d had the link a few weeks ago. Bizarre that I don''t remember it from ''06...Alzheimer''s or the grape methinks. You''re right, not much has changed. It''s still illuminating.

I am sure we could do a better job than this glossing over the top journalism.
Any ideas?

Yes, but it would take the efforts of a lot of Pricescopers.

Point me to the sign-up sheet!

Duly noted BB
Do you need to see the "Rules of Engagement"?

Seriously though - we could also collate the horror story threads, the e-bay experiances etc into one location too?

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 8/28/2008 10:26:19 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/28/2008 9:55:53 PM
Author: John Pollard

I am sure we could do a better job than this glossing over the top journalism.
Any ideas?

Yes, but it would take the efforts of a lot of Pricescopers.

Hey - great idea John.

What if lots of us went into stores and took ideal-scope photo''s, posted them.
Got verbal quotes from salespeople
Maybe some people might feel up to video''ing sales pitches
Record with mobile phones and Andrey could make some tool to post them?

Garry, I literally spewed coffee on my monitor when I read this.

My dear Garry.......I don''t know what the rules of engagement are in Oz, but I can absolutely assure you that it''s hard to get away with even merely PHOTOGRAPHING a diamond because you love it in most U.S. jewelry stores..............let alone snap ideal-scope shots of examples of less ''illustrious'' cuts.

I''ve been in several jewelry stores that won''t allow photos of any kind.

If you tried to pull that in any blatant kind of way, you''d find yourself handily escorted outside said establishments pretty quickly.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/29/2008 1:57:42 AM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 8/28/2008 10:26:19 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/28/2008 9:55:53 PM
Author: John Pollard

I am sure we could do a better job than this glossing over the top journalism.
Any ideas?

Yes, but it would take the efforts of a lot of Pricescopers.

Hey - great idea John.

1. What if lots of us went into stores and took ideal-scope photo''s, posted them.
2. Got verbal quotes from salespeople
3. Maybe some people might feel up to video''ing sales pitches
4. Record with mobile phones and Andrey could make some tool to post them?

Garry, I literally spewed coffee on my monitor when I read this.

My dear Garry.......I don''t know what the rules of engagement are in Oz, but I can absolutely assure you that it''s hard to get away with even merely PHOTOGRAPHING a diamond because you love it in most U.S. jewelry stores..............let alone snap ideal-scope shots of examples of less ''illustrious'' cuts.

I''ve been in several jewelry stores that won''t allow photos of any kind.

If you tried to pull that in any blatant kind of way, you''d find yourself handily escorted outside said establishments pretty quickly.

# 2 and #4 are easily done by stealth Allison

BTW i note that many of my American friends spew their coffee on their monitors and key boards and I have been thinking about how we could overcome this dreadful problem. here are some suggestions:
1. import nice coffee beans and do not over roast them
2. import 1,000 Italian barristas to train all the coffee makers
3. place only 1/4 as much really good quality coffee into a your cup (then you will only sip it and not have such huge eruptions)
4. use real cups and real spoons - I noted that even on Breakfast at Tiffany, which I saw for the 1st time 2 weeks ago, that they were using paper cups way back then!!!!

The outcome will then be that you would need a real disaster for you to waste fine coffee.

If that works we could apply the same logic to coke?

 

[diagem]

I cant help but notice this video was mainly pointing out to the "appraisers" or "appraised value" attached to the graded Diamonds at subject...

I never even knew IGI reports came tagged with a "appraised $$ value"...,

Thats a BIG red light

..., much worse than their subjective grading!

If its true..., shame on them for mixing subjective opinionated grading with some sort of invented Dollar figure!

On the other hand...., I personaly dont trust Cap''s objectivity in this video..., (sorry1

)

 

[oldminer]

This situation has been going on for an extended period of time. So very many consumers have been abused and so many so caled "highly respected" firms are mixed up in this, that it would be terrifically problematic to widely open such a sad can of worms. Silence in the face of wrongdoing has been the approach the legitimate portion of the jewelry industry chose long ago and now there is such a vested interest in keeping this dirt under wraps that uncovering it will be VERY painful. Business these days is mostly not very good. Creating more fear and resentment among consumers is not going to be as beneficial as each one of us doing the right thing for every consumer we come into contact with. Also, the power of Pricescope is difficult to imagine. Millions of readers do get the message and things are definitely changing to the benefit of consumers along with honest vendors. The open character of Pricescope is what keeps me and many others as active participants.

How do the B&M stores benefit from telling the truth? The honest guys see their dishonest competition doing pretty well by using deception. Taking the high road is good for your customers provided you are not competed out of business by the crooks. Protecting honest vendors and honest B&M stores from the revelation of dishonest business practiced by many in the trade should be of great concern to all of us. You don''t want to kill the industry while ridding it of a huge problem. I have thought for decades on how to attack the issue in a proper way and urging people not to take action until they ponder all the consequences of what they "might" do. It is a lot like thinking about what you ae going to post on Pricescope BEFORE you hit the SUBMIT button.

This planning should be done in private and with extreme care. Discussing it here is fine, but the best plan will have to be quietly created. We all would like to make the world a fairer place in many respects, not just for jewelry consumers, but we must consider the consequences and side effects before using the nuclear option. I wouldn''t want anyone to think I had a vested interest in the status quo, but I understand how rapidly changing the balance of how business is conducted often leads to unintended fallout and damage. If we decide to do something here, we should commit to doing it right the first time and with a balance of justice.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/30/2008 10:35:36 AM
Author: oldminer
This situation has been going on for an extended period of time. So very many consumers have been abused and so many so caled ''highly respected'' firms are mixed up in this, that it would be terrifically problematic to widely open such a sad can of worms. Silence in the face of wrongdoing has been the approach the legitimate portion of the jewelry industry chose long ago and now there is such a vested interest in keeping this dirt under wraps that uncovering it will be VERY painful. Business these days is mostly not very good. Creating more fear and resentment among consumers is not going to be as beneficial as each one of us doing the right thing for every consumer we come into contact with. Also, the power of Pricescope is difficult to imagine. Millions of readers do get the message and things are definitely changing to the benefit of consumers along with honest vendors. The open character of Pricescope is what keeps me and many others as active participants.

How do the B&M stores benefit from telling the truth? The honest guys see their dishonest competition doing pretty well by using deception. Taking the high road is good for your customers provided you are not competed out of business by the crooks. Protecting honest vendors and honest B&M stores from the revelation of dishonest business practiced by many in the trade should be of great concern to all of us. You don''t want to kill the industry while ridding it of a huge problem. I have thought for decades on how to attack the issue in a proper way and urging people not to take action until they ponder all the consequences of what they ''might'' do. It is a lot like thinking about what you ae going to post on Pricescope BEFORE you hit the SUBMIT button.

This planning should be done in private and with extreme care. Discussing it here is fine, but the best plan will have to be quietly created. We all would like to make the world a fairer place in many respects, not just for jewelry consumers, but we must consider the consequences and side effects before using the nuclear option. I wouldn''t want anyone to think I had a vested interest in the status quo, but I understand how rapidly changing the balance of how business is conducted often leads to unintended fallout and damage. If we decide to do something here, we should commit to doing it right the first time and with a balance of justice.

Thanks Dave; you mean you can not sink one end of a boat without getting the good guys wet as well?

You mean we should build a bigger sharper bow to cut thru the rough water and drak the stern along with us?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/29/2008 8:05:32 AM
Author: DiaGem
I cant help but notice this video was mainly pointing out to the ''appraisers'' or ''appraised value'' attached to the graded Diamonds at subject...

I never even knew IGI reports came tagged with a ''appraised $$ value''...,

Thats a BIG red light

..., much worse than their subjective grading!

If its true..., shame on them for mixing subjective opinionated grading with some sort of invented Dollar figure!

On the other hand...., I personaly dont trust Cap''s objectivity in this video..., (sorry1

)

You and I agree 100% on that! I am constantly amazed at the audacity of the gem "labs" that do this. I used the labs in quotes as I do not think they deserve the title.

Of course using the title of Gem Price Pimp House does not seem to be acceptible, even though it is much more descriptive of the function served.

I once spoke to one of the people who ran a house that did this and told him how disgracefull I thought it was. He replied that his clients required it and that if he did not do it he would loose all of his clients to IGI. Sadly, he is probably correct.

I also thought it interesting that the man who''s company helps mislead more retail buyers than any other would say it is the client''s fault for not reading the full document rather than listening to the sales rep.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/30/2008 10:35:36 AM
Author: oldminer
This situation has been going on for an extended period of time. So very many consumers have been abused and so many so caled ''highly respected'' firms are mixed up in this, that it would be terrifically problematic to widely open such a sad can of worms. Silence in the face of wrongdoing has been the approach the legitimate portion of the jewelry industry chose long ago and now there is such a vested interest in keeping this dirt under wraps that uncovering it will be VERY painful. Business these days is mostly not very good. Creating more fear and resentment among consumers is not going to be as beneficial as each one of us doing the right thing for every consumer we come into contact with. Also, the power of Pricescope is difficult to imagine. Millions of readers do get the message and things are definitely changing to the benefit of consumers along with honest vendors. The open character of Pricescope is what keeps me and many others as active participants.

How do the B&M stores benefit from telling the truth? The honest guys see their dishonest competition doing pretty well by using deception. Taking the high road is good for your customers provided you are not competed out of business by the crooks. Protecting honest vendors and honest B&M stores from the revelation of dishonest business practiced by many in the trade should be of great concern to all of us. You don''t want to kill the industry while ridding it of a huge problem. I have thought for decades on how to attack the issue in a proper way and urging people not to take action until they ponder all the consequences of what they ''might'' do. It is a lot like thinking about what you ae going to post on Pricescope BEFORE you hit the SUBMIT button.

This planning should be done in private and with extreme care. Discussing it here is fine, but the best plan will have to be quietly created. We all would like to make the world a fairer place in many respects, not just for jewelry consumers, but we must consider the consequences and side effects before using the nuclear option. I wouldn''t want anyone to think I had a vested interest in the status quo, but I understand how rapidly changing the balance of how business is conducted often leads to unintended fallout and damage. If we decide to do something here, we should commit to doing it right the first time and with a balance of justice.

I am constantly disappointed in this type of journalism because they show only one side of the story.

A few years ago when one of the shows was doing a "sting" looking to indict buyers of used jewelry for paying too little and for lying to people about what they have, two of my friends in the industry were approached and spent good time educating the "sellers". Both were hugely disappointed when they saw the resulting "report" some months later. Neither were mentioned in any way and the impression given, as in this piece, was that all of the jewelers visited were crooks.

While much of the information they gave was good, as in that comment from DiaGem that I agreed so heartly with, it is a shame that they did not share any of the footage from stores that did give them good information, nor did they share the fact that both GIA and AGS do not give fake prices with their reports.

Many of the vendors here and elsewhere work very hard to provide their clients with full and complete information. It is a shame they are never rewarded by the media for their efforts!

Wink

 

[Diva0413]

Wow... That was very informative. And to think my FI and I were waiting for the appraisal to insure my new engagement ring. He''s suppose to pick it up tomorrow, but if it''s inflated, I''m going to let him know to just insure for the amount paid for it.

 

[MMT]

A jeweler told me it was better to have you ring over appraised than under. I figure that will also cover me for a few years down the road if prices increase.

 

[John P]

Date: 9/3/2008 8:57:20 AM
Author: MMT

A jeweler told me it was better to have you ring over appraised than under. I figure that will also cover me for a few years down the road if prices increase.

In a case where you know you'll be getting equivalent value that can be true. But this also depends on the type of insurance: As seen in the video, you could buy a diamond for X and insure it for Y (over-appraised). But many "like kind/quality" replacement policies insure the diamond for their own replacement cost. That cost can be quite low since you are bound by their definition of "like kind." In such a case, if you were unhappy with their proposed replacement, the check you received could be for far less than even X, which is what you paid to begin with.

Jewelry-specific insurers may offer more clear solutions than non-jewelry-specific (there are exceptions of course). They will typically offer to work with your jeweler, your specific brand, a precise cash-out value, etc. In these cases it is prudent to see if prices have gone up every year or so and adjust your premium appropriately. Some jewelry-specific insurers will even contact you to alert you to this.

 

[strmrdr]

The question remains how do we get rid of the sharks while not hurting the dolphins?
Consumer education is a good first step but it is to slow.
Whats next?
Class action suits are too broad a sword as the retailer who may be a dolphin is the first in the line of fire as they are the one that actually sold the goods.

Boycott? would hurt to many dolphins.

Government regulation? I let Wink tell you about that one...

????????

 

[mirachelo]

that is funny

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/3/2008 12:32:33 PM
Author: strmrdr
The question remains how do we get rid of the sharks while not hurting the dolphins?

Consumer education is a good first step but it is to slow.

Whats next?

Class action suits are too broad a sword as the retailer who may be a dolphin is the first in the line of fire as they are the one that actually sold the goods.


Boycott? would hurt to many dolphins.


Government regulation? I let Wink tell you about that one...


????????

LOL! I feel like someone from the Peanuts special. Someone mentions government regulations and I sound like the muted trumpet in the background, "Blah blah blah, rumble blah blah blah"

Wink