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My girlfriend''s big diamond heart

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wwwang

Rough_Rock
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Oct 31, 2006
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I know you guys may laugh at me ... my girlfriend is not as diamond smart and not willing to spend the time to learn. All she wants is a large stone, top quality. I know, I know, ... but I am crazy about her. So I will have to bleed for this time. :-)
She has a finger size of 4.5, wants a stone in high 2 - 3ct range, F color, eye clean, and high quality cut. There are not too many of this kind of diamonds available, so comparison shopping is not easy.
I found a few from PS search. I will appreciate any comments, and also would like to know where can I shop for bigger size diamond and still have reasonal options to choose from.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=40012252

http://www.mondera.com/diamonds/product.asp?partno=562094&sourceID=BPVd0yuZ5sA-_AdDlXF3_9CTkZYRpjJQTw

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1057284.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-913144.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD01084775

A few questions:
1. I was told thin or thick girdle is not good, why some diamonds with thin/thick girdle still were rated as premium or even ideal cut?
2. Should I buy an idealscope to examine the diamond or it is in general ok to trust GIA cert? She is in another state if it has to be mailed to me to exam and then mail to her it is just to much of hassle.

Thanks a lot for any help.
Bill
 
A thin girdle is fine. You don''t want a very thin or extremely thin girdle.

An Ideal Scope is important. There are a few Internet vendors who have the capability to take pictures for you.
 
Date: 10/29/2007 10:55:33 PM
Author:wwwang
I know you guys may laugh at me ... my girlfriend is not as diamond smart and not willing to spend the time to learn. All she wants is a large stone, top quality. I know, I know, ... but I am crazy about her. So I will have to bleed for this time. :-)
She has a finger size of 4.5, wants a stone in high 2 - 3ct range, F color, eye clean, and high quality cut. There are not too many of this kind of diamonds available, so comparison shopping is not easy.
I found a few from PS search. I will appreciate any comments, and also would like to know where can I shop for bigger size diamond and still have reasonal options to choose from.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=40012252

http://www.mondera.com/diamonds/product.asp?partno=562094&sourceID=BPVd0yuZ5sA-_AdDlXF3_9CTkZYRpjJQTw

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1057284.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-913144.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD01084775

A few questions:
1. I was told thin or thick girdle is not good, why some diamonds with thin/thick girdle still were rated as premium or even ideal cut?
2. Should I buy an idealscope to examine the diamond or it is in general ok to trust GIA cert? She is in another state if it has to be mailed to me to exam and then mail to her it is just to much of hassle.

Thanks a lot for any help.
Bill
Click to expand...
SI1''s are tricky. many can be eye clean, but some are very bad. I would make sure to get pictures and gia reports and inspect it. Sometimes you can get very lucky with SI1''s and it will bring the cost of the diamond down quite a bit but be as nice as a VS1
that first james allen one you posted has a pretty large cloud in it. I would try to stay away from clouds.

the one from blue nile looks very good GIA wise other than the strong flour. This can either be good or bad. generally they say it is bad in white diamonds, but in yellow it makes it look more white. Since this is an F i would def make sure it is inspected by you or another trained eye. Sometimes they can apprear millky, other times a very pretty blue, but that is a personal preference

here are a few more for you

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3712/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3089/
 
Focus on how well the stone is cut. A well cut stone will sparkle and shine like crazy. Have you tried whiteflash.com, goodoldgold.com?
 
All the people here at PS are talking about cut. But all the people in real life are talking about carat. I am not sure how much they would appreciate the cut, say, how many girls there will trad a 3ct moderate cut to a 2.5 super cut? Cut is the most complicated C to those who do not have a learning mind.
I appreciate the help. Will post more later.
Bill
 
Date: 10/30/2007 1:02:47 AM
Author: wwwang
All the people here at PS are talking about cut. But all the people in real life are talking about carat. I am not sure how much they would appreciate the cut, say, how many girls there will trad a 3ct moderate cut to a 2.5 super cut? Cut is the most complicated C to those who do not have a learning mind.
I appreciate the help. Will post more later.
Bill
Click to expand...
PSers will just get the 3 ct GHI super-ideal or near-super-ideal instead of a 3 ct F moderate cut.
 
i''d rather have a 2.5 that sparkled like crazy than a 3pointer that was dull
 
Your girlfriend may not be interested in the finer details, but that does not mean she is wrong. Remember that above a certain cut quality, most human eyes cant really tell the difference. Especially on a set ring being worn. This equally applies to color, clarity etc. Above a certain point it becomes a mind issue. Your girlfriend seems to be saying to go as low as possible in the c`s without compromising the stones look whilst maintaining the carat size as around 3 carats. If you have the budget, this does not seem unreasonable. And in some ways its nice to just recieve a diamond and enjoy it without having to analyse it to death before purchase. She can leave that to you.....she sounds very clever to me!!!!
2.gif
 
Amazing isn''t it, how Cut and Carat collide? Truthfully, even though you GF says otherwise, you should check out the difference that cut makes yourself. Where are you situated in the nation? If you''re within reach of a good jeweler they should be able to show you the difference and then you can decide for yourself.

I''m not saying you should buy from that jeweler, but get a first hand view. Obviously they probably won''t have comparison stones in your intended size, but the impression will be made. So just walk in, and say you''re looking for an engagement ring at around a Carat, after they''ve given you the speil, keep pressing for a better rock to look at, so they can show you the difference. Eventually they should pull out something great, if they don''t have it, there should be one that does.

And then "if" you''re convinced, bring in your GF and see if she will be also. I knew that cut was most important from optics classes, but i didn''t realize how much till a little 28 point HoF caught the corner of my eye in the back of a large case. Then to find out it was an "I" color was again a revelation. Oh, well i''m still searching also.

And if you can''t convince her that cut is really important....well you''ll have shown you''re really looking into everything to make her happy.
 
Maybe Im mistaken but why is it assumed here that the poster wants a poor cut? Am I wrong in thinking that he wants a great cut in up to 3 carats. Maybe he doesnt need the best cut humanly possible, but I dont think he wants to buy a substandard cut either!
 
Date: 10/30/2007 1:02:47 AM
Author: wwwang
All the people here at PS are talking about cut. But all the people in real life are talking about carat. I am not sure how much they would appreciate the cut, say, how many girls there will trad a 3ct moderate cut to a 2.5 super cut?
Click to expand...
Bill, most girls would trade the 3 ct "moderate" cut stone (moderate meaning average to me) for the 2.5 carat super cut stone.......

IF..........they saw them side by side, and you didn't tell them which was which.

The 2.5 would look much better/sparklier, and that's the stone their eyes would gravitate to due to performance.

But if you simply ASK girls who haven't seen the difference and you show them the paper instead of the diamond, most gals would choose the 3 ct.....because they ASSUME that means it's bigger (which it may not really measure bigger if it's deep/poorly cut).

That said, you don't have to get "the ultimate" in cut. You can get an above-average cut but stop shy of 'super-duper-ultimate', and that might help you maximize the ct. weight.
 
Date: 10/30/2007 10:00:50 AM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 10/30/2007 1:02:47 AM
Author: wwwang
All the people here at PS are talking about cut. But all the people in real life are talking about carat. I am not sure how much they would appreciate the cut, say, how many girls there will trad a 3ct moderate cut to a 2.5 super cut?
Click to expand...
Bill, most girls would trade the 3 ct ''moderate'' cut stone (moderate meaning average to me) for the 2.5 carat super cut stone.......

IF..........they saw them side by side, and you didn''t tell them which was which.

The 2.5 would look much better/sparklier, and that''s the stone their eyes would gravitate to due to performance.

But if you simply ASK girls who haven''t seen the difference and you show them the paper instead of the diamond, most gals would choose the 3 ct.....because they ASSUME that means it''s bigger (which it may not really measure bigger if it''s deep/poorly cut).

That said, you don''t have to get ''the ultimate'' in cut. You can get an above-average cut but stop shy of ''super-duper-ultimate'', and that might help you maximize the ct. weight.
Click to expand...
exactly. well said alj.
 
good lord. This thread is giving me the diamond shrinkage virus - big time. *cough, cough*
 
If you select a stone on the acceptable shallow range-- around 60 depth--with a girdle that is not too thick, you wll get a stone with a larger spread since size seems like a priority. Look at the measurements of the stones rather than just the carat weight.
I agree that you do not have to go into the nuances of a really super cut but do not compromise too much on cut quality in favor of size. A well cut stone will give off much more sparkle and will appear larger than one that has little life and is just large. Is she definitely set on an F. There are some very white G and H stones and even down to J, particularly with some flourescence, posted on Show Me THE RING and you can get a really well cut large stone for the money.
Stone color is graded from the bottom of the stone and some very well cut stones face up like a higher color once they are set.
If she is really color sensitive, maybe a well cut G or H would do if it is a great cut.
 
A friend of mine has a stone that was chosen for spread over cut. It''s very shallow and looks awful.

I have never seen that stone sparkle! My melee sparkles more than her 1.5ct pear.

I would choose the 2.5ct super-ideal every time. Sparkle is everything!
 
Thanks for all the very helpful messages. I know I will have to go through the hell of few days, or a few weeks. You guys really make me feel not alone.
After a little reasoning talk now she agreed on less than 2.5ct. My concern is also safety - won''t a huge sparkling diamond make you the target?
Yes she insisted on F since she can see the yellow in G in the store.
Question:
Among ideal, premium, excellent, and select ideal cut, which one is the best?
Thanks again.
Bill
 
GIA has Excellent cut

AGS has Ideal cut

HRD has Very Good cut.

These are different labs top cuts. HRD is more common in Europe. GIA and AGS are the two best in the USA.

Personally, I wouldn''t feel happy wearing a big diamond. I live in London where big rings aren''t the norm and it''s about as safe as any capital city. I wore my FSIL''s 1.5ct ring when I picked it up for FBIL for about an hour and have never been so relieved to get back to my house.

However, it all depends on what sort of area you live in and the sort of bling sizes around. You will of course be insuring the ring I hope!
 
Date: 10/30/2007 9:12:50 PM
Author: wwwang
Thanks for all the very helpful messages. I know I will have to go through the hell of few days, or a few weeks. You guys really make me feel not alone.
After a little reasoning talk now she agreed on less than 2.5ct. My concern is also safety - won't a huge sparkling diamond make you the target?
Yes she insisted on F since she can see the yellow in G in the store.
Question:
Among ideal, premium, excellent, and select ideal cut, which one is the best?
Thanks again.
Bill
Click to expand...
I think you need to see some diamonds irl to compare all the differences between various qualities and sizes.

2.5 is still very much `target` worthy.....especially if it is super shiny!!! Im afraid you cant win here as a big diamond is going to be looked at. I guess it depends on where you live.

Lastly, when she saw the G was it a true G?

FWIW, my h. just bought me a 4 carat princess, great color, not great cut and its pretty sparkly considering what I would have thought from the stats. He bought it for its large size and the price. In the part of the world I live in, it wont stand out as a bad cut. It will be percieved as a huge sparkly white diamond in a sparkly setting. I move my hands alot when I talk!!! And yes, he is very worried that I would be a target when I begin wearing this. He is still in the middle of setting it which will take till next year.

I wouldnt be so quick to talk her down in carat size. She may (or not?) end up with shrinkage and resent that she didnt get what she originally wanted. Either make sure you have a trade up policy or expect to be funding an upgrade sometime in your future. This might be different if she actively chose a smaller one herself and fell in love with its extra sparkle. But remember, at a given point the extra sparkle is not visible by the average person.

There is a tape here showing an experiment where many people were shown different cuts of diamonds. Its interesting to watch this experiment because it sort of shows that the best cut is not easy to pick from average cuts by the average person. Im sure this is not true about bad cuts though.

Last point....if she wants a whole lot of diamond `look` as apposed to actual centre stone, a compromise might be to get the 2.5 or even 2 carat in the best color cut etc etc....and also a beautiful sparkly wedding band with significant diamond coverage. Now thats a whole lot of diamond in any ones book.
 
Thanks a lot.
I realized also that those sites provide a lot of material, such as GOG, are also more expensive -- that''s extra cost, understandably.
I think I will go with reasonable quality not the extreme.
I found this diamond on diamond.com, not a preferred site here at PS. But is this a super good price?
http://byo.diamond.com/create_your_own/ring/stones.php

I heard of white gold may need periodical re-dip. Does platium worth the extra price?
 
Date: 10/31/2007 10:23:05 AM
Author: wwwang
Thanks a lot.
I realized also that those sites provide a lot of material, such as GOG, are also more expensive -- that''s extra cost, understandably.
I think I will go with reasonable quality not the extreme.
I found this diamond on diamond.com, not a preferred site here at PS. But is this a super good price?
http://byo.diamond.com/create_your_own/ring/stones.php

I heard of white gold may need periodical re-dip. Does platium worth the extra price?
Click to expand...
You need to link to the actual diamond. Your link only sends us to the beginning page. In order for anyone to comment on the stone you found, we would need to see the measurements, and/or cert.
 
Sorry, diamond.com won''t allow the link to the diamond. Here is the description:
Diamond A:
Price: $36,300.00
Shape: Round
Carat: 2.46
Cut: Excellent
Color: D
Clarity: VS2
GIA Certificate: 16220220
Hide
Depth: 62.5%
Table: 60.00%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Medium
Measurements: 8.56mm x 8.58mm x 5.36mm
Item Number: J878-17


A few other diamonds I think reasonable are listed here:

Diamond B:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1036365.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
Diamond C:
http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?track=diamond_comparison&elem=img&pid=LD01031697&filter_id=0
Diamond D:
http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?track=diamond_comparison&elem=img&pid=LD01164691&filter_id=0
Diamond E:
http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?track=diamond_comparison&elem=img&pid=LD01108698&filter_id=0
Diamond F:
http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?track=diamond_comparison&elem=img&pid=LD00142062&filter_id=0http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_de...tails_btn&elem=img&pid=LD01031697&filter_id=0

It seems to me bluenile is quite reasonable. But I know many of the online vendors don''t have stones in stock.
Well it seems close to the last foot of the journey. This site is so wonderful, only with the trouble of being over-educated, worsened my OCD. :-)
18.gif

 
Date: 10/31/2007 2:12:17 PM
Author: wwwang

Sorry, diamond.com won''t allow the link to the diamond. Here is the description:
Diamond A:
Price: $36,300.00
Shape: Round
Carat: 2.46
Cut: Excellent
Color: D
Clarity: VS2
GIA Certificate: 16220220
Hide
Depth: 62.5%
Table: 60.00%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Medium
Measurements: 8.56mm x 8.58mm x 5.36mm
Item Number: J878-17


Click to expand...
CA 35.5

PA 41.2


I wouldn''t do it without an IS pic....Actually, I most likely wouldn''t do it anyway. But, I''m picky.
5.gif



http://www.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=16220220&weight=2.46
 
Oh boy, fun project! Please check with her (very important) - were the stones she saw color in at a G graded by GIA or AGS? If graded by a lab such as EGL, the color may be ''off'' by two grades (been there, done that!). It is true that the larger the stone, the more visible the color but do want to make sure that it was a true G (meaning GIA or AGS just for better standardization purposes) that she saw color in. Also the stones she was looking at when she saw color - were they in the 2-3ct size range? I ask again b/c being that color is more visible the larger the stone gets, so if she saw color in a true G in a much smaller sized stone, she may be super color sensitive and we *may* need to go higher than an F in the size she is looking for.

A little bit of (blue) fluoro may help in a colorless stone too (this can make a colorless stone really pop as long as there is no oily or milky effect from the fluoro - that effect though is actually quite rare).

Also wanted to mention, as the stones get larger, they start getting cut more and more for weight IMO, so the 3 carat rings she has seen may actually be cut for weight and not performance (meaning she may have seen a lot of ''deep'' stones with a lot of the carat weight horizontal (meaning depthwise) and buried in the setting instead of being ''vertically'' visible (=''spread'' - makes it look bigger) to the eye). Many large stones do have a very poor spread for their size due to that weight being buried in the depth (and thus you are paying $$$ for extra carat weight that does not help the sparkle or size appearance of the diamond). She may very well discover that when you get her the slightly smaller stone that it visually appears just as large as the ones she has liked - also if not cut for performance the light return may not extend out to the edges of the stone, and this can make a stone appear smaller too - It can sometimes take months to find a really good stone but you''ll find one to knock her socks off!!!
36.gif
 
also, plat v. gold is personal choice. plat requires repolishing maintenance, wg requires re-rhodiuming (the frequency of which is dependent upon person - some have to dip every few months, some never have to redip).
are you going to go for a simple solitaire setting? (i.e. ''tiffany style'') - this will help you maximize your budget for the stone instead of having to put part of your budget away for setting
 
Date: 10/31/2007 10:23:05 AM
Author: wwwang
Thanks a lot.
I realized also that those sites provide a lot of material, such as GOG, are also more expensive -- that''s extra cost, understandably.
I think I will go with reasonable quality not the extreme.
I found this diamond on diamond.com, not a preferred site here at PS. But is this a super good price?
http://byo.diamond.com/create_your_own/ring/stones.php

I heard of white gold may need periodical re-dip. Does platium worth the extra price?
Click to expand...
White gold does need the occasional redip, but it looks soooo good!!! For me the small cost ($30) is worth it to make the ring look brand new. I have never owned platinum as it has never appealed to me. The color is more grey imo, however my new ring has to have platinum for its extra strength. I will have the platinum rhodeum plated.
 
Date: 10/31/2007 4:17:36 PM
Author: :)
Oh boy, fun project! Please check with her (very important) - were the stones she saw color in at a G graded by GIA or AGS? If graded by a lab such as EGL, the color may be ''off'' by two grades (been there, done that!). It is true that the larger the stone, the more visible the color but do want to make sure that it was a true G (meaning GIA or AGS just for better standardization purposes) that she saw color in. Also the stones she was looking at when she saw color - were they in the 2-3ct size range? I ask again b/c being that color is more visible the larger the stone gets, so if she saw color in a true G in a much smaller sized stone, she may be super color sensitive and we *may* need to go higher than an F in the size she is looking for.

A little bit of (blue) fluoro may help in a colorless stone too (this can make a colorless stone really pop as long as there is no oily or milky effect from the fluoro - that effect though is actually quite rare).

Also wanted to mention, as the stones get larger, they start getting cut more and more for weight IMO, so the 3 carat rings she has seen may actually be cut for weight and not performance (meaning she may have seen a lot of ''deep'' stones with a lot of the carat weight horizontal (meaning depthwise) and buried in the setting instead of being ''vertically'' visible (=''spread'' - makes it look bigger) to the eye). Many large stones do have a very poor spread for their size due to that weight being buried in the depth (and thus you are paying $$$ for extra carat weight that does not help the sparkle or size appearance of the diamond). She may very well discover that when you get her the slightly smaller stone that it visually appears just as large as the ones she has liked - also if not cut for performance the light return may not extend out to the edges of the stone, and this can make a stone appear smaller too - It can sometimes take months to find a really good stone but you''ll find one to knock her socks off!!!
36.gif
Click to expand...
Well said. These are very interesting points to keep in mind!
 
I take it based on your post of diamond earlier your budget is about 36K for the stone?

$35,176 at Whiteflash ...
2.86 F SI1 (is listed at other vendors too like JA for slightly higher, if you have a preferred vendor you could see if they would price match)
http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-339412.htm#
check if eye clean. worth inquiring about, has potential. falls in AGS0 parameters and GIA ex parameters - it got ''very good'' for cut due to girdle thickness which is certainly not the worst thing in the world (IMO slightly thicker girdles are better the bigger the stone esp if placing the stone in a setting that does not fully protect the girdle - i.e. in a 6 prong ''tiffany style'' - they can get banged around doing laundry, etc). This has a great 9mm spread for the carat weight.
 
http://www.bluenile.com/product_details.asp?oid=5106&page=2&show_all_pages=0&col=1&row=2&pos=4&set_shape=

Ok, while still debating for the diamond, I''ve looked for a setting. The above is unique in my eyes, though not hand checked. It has a whitegold version that''s $1750, and platinum version for &700 more. The 3 side wrap design is quite unique. But won''t the small diamonds on the setting and the band fight each other?
I hope will wrap up this whole hassle in 1-2 weeks. Will post the final product when it comes.
 
Thanks ideal rock. I will check this out.
 
Date: 11/1/2007 1:31:21 AM
Author: wwwang
http://www.bluenile.com/product_details.asp?oid=5106&page=2&show_all_pages=0&col=1&row=2&pos=4&set_shape=


Ok, while still debating for the diamond, I've looked for a setting. The above is unique in my eyes, though not hand checked. It has a whitegold version that's $1750, and platinum version for &700 more. The 3 side wrap design is quite unique. But won't the small diamonds on the setting and the band fight each other?
Click to expand...

Just to let you know, I saw a similar setting on WF for a bit less. Check it out.
http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/Three-Sided-Pave_1115.htm#
 
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