My friend said getting a GIA cert is a waste of money...true???

[azbuyer]

He said that is the biggest rip off because we have been led to beieive that the cert adds value when indeed it does not.

Everything I have seen so far has been GIA. Is it possible to get the same stone that is of the same quality but isnt certified? I guess how do I know what a stone would be in terms of color and clarity if it were to be certified?

Maybe there is something to this. Maybe its for peace of mind? resell value is not an issue because I dont think many jewelers will buy diamonds at the same price than what you bought it for.

 

[customcushion]

If you can eyeball a VS1 from a VVS2 and a D from an E, then you can feel secure buying uncerted stones.

disclaimer: some uncerted stones are gorgeous.

 

[partgypsy]

I wouldn''t say a grading report is to "add value". It''s a way to check exactly what you are getting, and being able to determine whether you paid a fair value.
It''s the same as buying a cute fluffy puppy, one from a friend who doesn''t know anything about the puppy other than it''s cute, one whose owners says it''s father won the Westminster dog show (but no documentation of this, just trust them), to one that actually comes with a pedigree.

Even if you are not planning to resell the "puppy" there are many reasons you may want to know the value, from being able to compare and contrast apples to apples (so you know you are paying a fair price), to insurance and estate reasons.

 

[Lynn B]

My diamonds are all AGS graded, but the idea is the same, I''m sure.

Having a cert from a reputable grading lab gives you confidence in what you are buying. Why pay for a E/VS, for example, when in fact the stone is H/SI? Not that it may still not be a beautiful stone, but (all other things being equal), an H/SI should be way cheaper.

Also, can you tell just by looking at it if a stone is well-cut? You really can''t *trust* the seller''s "opinions" -or- those jewelry store lights that can make a river rock sparkle!

In lieu of a cert (or better yet, in addition to one), you can have a stone independently appraised... but that usually costs at least $100 (oftentimes more)... however, it will tell you about the stone.

Most people (IMVHO) simply do not have the expertise to know whether an uncerted stone is indeed worth the asking price... and for that reason, I think a cert from a reputable lab is a worthy investment.

 

[rcrosier]

In a perfect world with totally honest people, a cert might not be needed. The seller would tell you the exact details of the stone and not rip you off...

But that still leaves the issue of consistency. There needs to be a standard by which everything is graded. The labs that give certs are this standard for consistency -- not that all labs are equal and fair.

That''s where reputation comes into play. GIA and AGS have been shown to be the strictest grading labs out there. If you buy a GIA/AGS stone, you can be confident that you are getting what you paid for to within at least +/- 1 grading scale difference from the standard.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 7/21/2008 6:52:38 PM
Author: rcrosier
In a perfect world with totally honest people, a cert might not be needed. The seller would tell you the exact details of the stone and not rip you off...

But that still leaves the issue of consistency. There needs to be a standard by which everything is graded. The labs that give certs are this standard for consistency -- not that all labs are equal and fair.

That''s where reputation comes into play. GIA and AGS have been shown to be the strictest grading labs out there. If you buy a GIA/AGS stone, you can be confident that you are getting what you paid for to within at least +/- 1 grading scale difference from the standard.

A person can be totally honest but a poor grader of diamonds, therefore they could not tell you the exact details.
You''re right...consistency is a problem, has always been a problem.
GIA and AGS are the premier labs but there are other lesser known labs that are equally as good.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[honey22]

IMO No, it''s not a rip off - I don''t want to pay for a D VS2 which is in fact a E SI1 - I am paying a premium for a colour and clarity that I am not getting, and which is more than likely higher than the cost of the certificate.

 

[rcrosier]

Date: 7/21/2008 8:51:09 PM
Author: Modified Brilliant

Date: 7/21/2008 6:52:38 PM
Author: rcrosier
In a perfect world with totally honest people, a cert might not be needed. The seller would tell you the exact details of the stone and not rip you off...

But that still leaves the issue of consistency. There needs to be a standard by which everything is graded. The labs that give certs are this standard for consistency -- not that all labs are equal and fair.

That''s where reputation comes into play. GIA and AGS have been shown to be the strictest grading labs out there. If you buy a GIA/AGS stone, you can be confident that you are getting what you paid for to within at least +/- 1 grading scale difference from the standard.

A person can be totally honest but a poor grader of diamonds, therefore they could not tell you the exact details.
You''re right...consistency is a problem, has always been a problem.
GIA and AGS are the premier labs but there are other lesser known labs that are equally as good.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

Yes, a good point. I think its important that consistency and honesty go together. There are other labs, but I didn''t mention any because I don''t have the qualifications to do so like you do as a G.G. Sorry if I left any other credible labs out, but I was mainly referencing some color grading mishaps that I''ve heard about from the EGL.

 

[swingirl]

It depends. Is the information on the GIA certificate important to you? If you really don't care what the angles are, where the inclusions are located, what the color, clarity, or dimensions are, than your friend is probably correct. If you don't need to know the details about your stone, then why pay for that information? Like an appraisal for a house. If you don't need to know what it's worth, why pay someone to evaluate it? (a GIA cert won't tell you what your stone is worth)

If you ARE interested in the details of a stone, then the certificate would give you that info and you wouldn't need to rely on a jeweler, jewelry salesperson, your friend or yourself to guess at the details.

 

[sonnyjane]

I posted about this last week: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bought-ring-before-finding-ps-questions.89999/

It''s really up to you. Obviously, it is probably ideal to have the GIA certification, but I fell in love with one particular diamond that was not certified, compared it to other stones and found it comparable and a great value. I am happy with the stone''s quality and since I would likely only ever trade it into the company from which I am buying it, it''s not that crucial that I have the certification, but only you know what''s important for you!

 

[jewelerman]

What Metro said...also a grading cert. gives a professional opinion about what you are investing your money in.keep in mind,just because the stone is certed dont mean its high quality...you still must research what you are buying and understand the basics of diamond grading and reading a cert.

 

[denverappraiser]

Yes, the lab adds value.

It’s not the lab that makes a beautiful stone beautiful or that makes a makes it a particular color or clarity so it doesn’t directly change a stone to get it ‘certified’ but it adds a confidence level that’s definitely of value. A stone with a GIA pedigree both costs more and sells better than that same stone without the papers. That’s value, at least for the dealer but it’s valuable to the shopper as well. Here’s why:

As a bit of background, here’s the GIA price list for grading stones:

http://www.gia.edu/gemtradelab/31548/fees.cfm

Almost always the ‘premium’ associated with buying GIA graded goods is considerably more than that. Why?

In shopping for diamonds, it’s impossible not to notice that the prices change dramatically based on some fairly arcane attributes like color, cutting and clarity. A single grade difference in just one of these can easily affect the price by hundreds or even thousands of dollars. This makes the grading accuracy a huge deal and, since grading involves a judgment call, it makes the identity of the grader an equally huge deal. That’s why it’s worth paying an expert and independent grader to assist and why dealers will often want to choose a different expert than the buyers. Even uncerted stones HAVE been graded, the grader was paid, and the pricing is based on that’s graders opinions. If the difference were only a matter of the graders fee because they found someone who will work for less than GIA, then at most the difference shouldn’t be more than GIA’s fees. It’s about the results. One grader may call a stone a VS1/H while another will grade that same stone VS2/I. That’s an easy 10%-20% difference in the marketplace and most people can’t tell the difference even with a microscope. They’re relying on the grader. For obvious reasons it’s in the best interest of the dealer to get you to rely on a grader that they’ve chosen instead of one chosen by you and, for equally obvious reasons, it’s in the shoppers best interest to choose the most reliable grader possible, even if their fees are a little higher. If the price difference between the stones is more than those fees, you can bet that something else is going on and, if it’s less, the lab work seems like a valuable service because it answers your question of how you know the color and clarity.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Lynn B]

Thanks, Neil, for the informative, helpful post.

I think our OP (or "supplicant"

as Wink so cutely says!) should feel like his question has been very nicely answered!

 

[phoenixgirl]

The lab report itself costs in the low hundreds, so it shouldn''t add more to the cost than that.

The difference is you might be buying an uncerted "F VS1" stone for $5000, or you might buy that same stone when graded by the GIA as G SI1 for $5000. So with the GIA cert you''re now not in the position to think, "Score! I''m such a savvy diamond shopper! I got an F VS1 for nothing!" but that doesn''t mean the GIA certed stone was being sold for more than when it was marketed as an uncerted, higher color and clarity stone.

If, as customcushion mentioned, you are capable of grading stones by sight on your own, then you might be able to save money getting an uncerted stone. Otherwise, I would bet that while you are paying less for your "F VS1" than comparable GIA certed stones are going for (thus making you think that they are more "expensive"), the truth is that you are really buying a stone that is a few grades lower in color and clarity. That''s where the price difference comes in. Because if your friend were right and jewelers could charge significantly more for certed stones when only paying a few hundred dollars, then all stones would be certed, right?

Here is an experience a recent poster had with an ungraded diamond. I believe this is quite common.

 

[lv2008]

Before i found pricescope i went to LA Diamond district to find a diamond. I was surprised to see how far my money could go on a EGL Cert diamond. My buddy bought a 2.4 carat HSI2 for 13,500.00 THat diamond if it were in fact an H SI2 and was AGS 0 ideal cut would go for 3-4 times that amount of money. I found a 2.01 HSI2 carat diamond for 10,950.00. I then went home and started doing some homework because what was important to me was sparkle and brilliance. All the EGL Cert says is good Symmetry and Very good polish. After doing much research on pricescope i found that you get what you pay for. The diamond which i liked was steep/deep and not a top performer. I also found out that my buddies diamond that was $13,500 for 2.4 carats scored 4.9 on HCA and was steep/deep. Through all my research its my belief that EGL grades lighter in all catagories and doesnt pay enough attention to cut which i think is mucho important. I also think Diamond guys are not dumb and know where they want to cert there diamond. If the numbers look good then theyll go for AGS or GIA for top cut performance. If the cut isnt that good and they want to get a higher grading they go to EGL. I wanted a diamond that bounces off the finger and doesnt look dead like most diamonds i see. I decided to go with a 1.8 carat AGS 0 Ideal cut diamond that is I color. It has great patterns and performs well in all light. So i guess my point is why would there be top performing diamonds out there not certified AGS or GIA. Why would a diamond not be certified at all if it would classify as a AGS ideal or GIA excellent cut. To me a diamond not certified or certified EGL means watch out.