My EGL diamond purchase

[new4diamond]

I have been reading this forum for several months and this is my first post.

Before buying diamonds for my wife, I researched for over 4 months, read several hundred articles, viewed countless web sites, looked at a few hundred GIA AGS EGL certificates, visited over a dozen jewlery stores, viewed dozens & dozens of diamonds. I tried to educate myself to be somewhat knowledable before I made my purchase.

With that said, I first purchased an Ideal-Scope and then I started shopping.....ordered 2 diamonds (non-certified) from what I thought was a respected Jewlery Co. received & I returned the same day. My second order was also from a respected Jewler (non-certified) and same thing received & returned same day....both companies had great return policies, but what they told me what I was getting and what I got were night & day. I got the specs for both purchases & ran the HCA on both (4) diamonds before ordering, but someone was not telling me the truth. When viewed with a 10x loupe, Ideal-Scope, and then even with a microscope (I cheated) both pairs of these diamonds were of poor cut, poor polish, my opinion, not a professional one, nonetheless, they did not sparkle.

My third order from an online supplier were EGL certified (1) diamond G/VS1 EX Cut/EX Polish/EX Symmetry + (1) diamond G/VS2 EX/EX/EX the diamonds scored .8 & .9 repectively on the HCA and under the Ideal-Scope look like perfect Hearts/Arrows. They have spectacular fire/ sparkle/ brilliance/ ....everything that I wanted in a diamond.....I am no expert, I took these to a independent certified gemologist, he graded (1) G/VS2 and (1) G/VVS2 with ideal cut & polish, he had a similar tool as the Ideal-Scope and also noted perfect hearts/arrows, his clarity grade on the one diamond was a step up from EGL.

With all the bashing I have read about EGL, I really wonder how many of those people who do the bashing actually have any first hand experience with what they claim they know. I for one could not be any happier or satified with my purchase and at a much lower cost than any other certified diamonds I could find. Even if these same diamonds were to grade 2 colors/ 2 clarity less with the other grading companies, I still saved several hundreds of dollars and purchased a beautiful set of diamonds, I guess that is what counts.....They are now in settings and ready for Christmas......just wanted to tell my story

 

[minmin001]

thank you for sharing the story~ do you mind also share some pic. of the diamonds, ideal image etc as well?

 

[CharmyPoo]

No bashing of EGL just warning of inconsistent results.

Yes, please share photos so we can see.

 

[Gypsy]

I have first hand experience. And I also warn of inconsistent results from them.

That said, congratulations! Can't wait to see your new diamonds. Please post lots of pics..

 

[farmer gal]

I think there are beautiful EGL diamonds. I do however warn people that they do have softer grading. I do know from personal experience because my old diamond was an EGL. I bought a G SI1 according to EGL USA and it was an I SI2 according to GIA.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Notwithstanding much first hand experience owning, viewing, reviewing and comparing EGL/AGS/GIA stats--I am very happy you are well satisfied with your purchase. You made an informed decision and that is all one can hope for.

I hope you don't confuse spirited discussion with bashing. People come or peruse PS and end up buying what they want! You did!

Merry Christmas--and show us this beauty of yours! Hands shots are requisite here yanno!

cheers--Sharon

 

[Rockdiamond]

A few important distinctions:
1) There's no such a thing as a "certified" diamond- that is to say, the term "certified" implies some sort of sanctioned standard- for example, in NYC cabs have "certified odometers".
The government inspects and certifies the odometer so that riders know they're not overpaying.
When a diamond is submitted to a lab, it's examined and a subjective grade is issued. Subjective to a narrow degree, but subjective nonetheless. A borderline G might be called an H one day, and a G the next- and neither is "wrong".
GIA objects to the use of the term "certified" for this reason.


2) There's absolutely nothing wrong with a diamond simply due to it's being accompanied by an inaccurate lab report.


How does this relate? Well, consumers are far better served if they understand the facts about gem labs, and how this relates to value.
I can show you examples where non GIA labs are 8 grades off.
There's simply no workable formula for figuring out how far off an EGL report might be.
What this does is put uninformed consumers in a horrible position.
If they don't understand how these things work, they are easy prey to sellers who capitalize on the inaccuracies.

So it's worth the time to repeatedly correct this misinformation- as I am very committed to transparency in the business I've worked my entire adult life.

Any seller offering EGL graded diamonds without explaining these facts is either ignorant, or willing to use un-truths to sell.
Neither of these characteristics is desirable in a seller.

 

[denverappraiser]

I'm glad you're happy but I’m a little confused. You bought 3 different stones after considering hundreds, all from different vendors, and had a good experience with only one of them. This speaks well of the final DEALER, whose name you didn’t even mention, but it says remarkably little about the reliability of EGL. You had the grading confirmed by an ICGA who presumably you find reliable but then also omitted their name. Actually, the only player in this 4 month long story that you mention by name and as an endorsement for others to consider is EGL where you weren’t even the client. May I ask why? Wasn't it the dealer and the appraiser who are actually the ones you were/are relying on and who helped you to a successful conclulsion?

 

[swingirl]

With that said, I first purchased an Ideal-Scope and then I started shopping.....ordered 2 diamonds (non-certified) from what I thought was a respected Jewlery Co. received & I returned the same day. My second order was also from a respected Jewler (non-certified) and same thing received & returned same day....both companies had great return policies, but what they told me what I was getting and what I got were night & day. I got the specs for both purchases & ran the HCA on both (4) diamonds before ordering, but someone was not telling me the truth. When viewed with a 10x loupe, Ideal-Scope, and then even with a microscope (I cheated) both pairs of these diamonds were of poor cut, poor polish, my opinion, not a professional one, nonetheless, they did not sparkle.

I have not heard of venders (and you found 2) that carry stones without any reports that have enough information to plug into the HCA. They must have taken their own measurements and crown and pavilion angles? Which vendors are willing to do that? Please share.

 

[new4diamond]

A few important distinctions:
1) There's no such a thing as a "certified" diamond- that is to say, the term "certified" implies some sort of sanctioned standard- for example, in NYC cabs have "certified odometers".
The government inspects and certifies the odometer so that riders know they're not overpaying.
When a diamond is submitted to a lab, it's examined and a subjective grade is issued. Subjective to a narrow degree, but subjective nonetheless. A borderline G might be called an H one day, and a G the next- and neither is "wrong".
GIA objects to the use of the term "certified" for this reason.


2) There's absolutely nothing wrong with a diamond simply due to it's being accompanied by an inaccurate lab report.


How does this relate? Well, consumers are far better served if they understand the facts about gem labs, and how this relates to value.
I can show you examples where non GIA labs are 8 grades off.
There's simply no workable formula for figuring out how far off an EGL report might be.
What this does is put uninformed consumers in a horrible position.
If they don't understand how these things work, they are easy prey to sellers who capitalize on the inaccuracies.

So it's worth the time to repeatedly correct this misinformation- as I am very committed to transparency in the business I've worked my entire adult life.

Any seller offering EGL graded diamonds without explaining these facts is either ignorant, or willing to use un-truths to sell.
Neither of these characteristics is desirable in a seller.

1) I should have used the wording 'graded diamonds'...I would think most would understand I was referring to diamonds with certificates.

2) I did not see anything in my post that indicated an inaccurate lad report. Just the opposite, my post was intended to show that I purchased diamonds with a EGL report that was very accurate.

As far as your statement 'Any seller offering EGL graded diamonds............' would not that also pretain to any graded diamond sold as it was an opinion only.

The saying 'buyer beware' is true and an educated buyer is a smart buyer. In my research I found that many sellers are bias and try to sell that bias with the goods at the expense of the buyer. Your remarks show you are bias towards a certain grading company and try to discredit others. I don't know, have not searched, but my guess is you sell GIA graded diamonds.

 

[new4diamond]

I'm glad you're happy but I’m a little confused. You bought 3 different stones after considering hundreds, all from different vendors, and had a good experience with only one of them. This speaks well of the final DEALER, whose name you didn’t even mention, but it says remarkably little about the reliability of EGL. You had the grading confirmed by an ICGA who presumably you find reliable but then also omitted their name. Actually, the only player in this 4 month long story that you mention by name and as an endorsement for others to consider is EGL where you weren’t even the client. May I ask why? Wasn't it the dealer and the appraiser who are actually the ones you were/are relying on and who helped you to a successful conclulsion?

No, I relied on my own educated guess....must of lucked out

 

[Rockdiamond]

A few important distinctions:
1) There's no such a thing as a "certified" diamond- that is to say, the term "certified" implies some sort of sanctioned standard- for example, in NYC cabs have "certified odometers".
The government inspects and certifies the odometer so that riders know they're not overpaying.
When a diamond is submitted to a lab, it's examined and a subjective grade is issued. Subjective to a narrow degree, but subjective nonetheless. A borderline G might be called an H one day, and a G the next- and neither is "wrong".
GIA objects to the use of the term "certified" for this reason.


2) There's absolutely nothing wrong with a diamond simply due to it's being accompanied by an inaccurate lab report.


How does this relate? Well, consumers are far better served if they understand the facts about gem labs, and how this relates to value.
I can show you examples where non GIA labs are 8 grades off.
There's simply no workable formula for figuring out how far off an EGL report might be.
What this does is put uninformed consumers in a horrible position.
If they don't understand how these things work, they are easy prey to sellers who capitalize on the inaccuracies.

So it's worth the time to repeatedly correct this misinformation- as I am very committed to transparency in the business I've worked my entire adult life.

Any seller offering EGL graded diamonds without explaining these facts is either ignorant, or willing to use un-truths to sell.
Neither of these characteristics is desirable in a seller.

1) I should have used the wording 'graded diamonds'...I would think most would understand I was referring to diamonds with certificates.

2) I did not see anything in my post that indicated an inaccurate lad report. Just the opposite, my post was intended to show that I purchased diamonds with a EGL report that was very accurate.

As far as your statement 'Any seller offering EGL graded diamonds............' would not that also pretain to any graded diamond sold as it was an opinion only.

The saying 'buyer beware' is true and an educated buyer is a smart buyer. In my research I found that many sellers are bias and try to sell that bias with the goods at the expense of the buyer. Your remarks show you are bias towards a certain grading company and try to discredit others. I don't know, have not searched, but my guess is you sell GIA graded diamonds.

Interesting- I wonder if you read my post....What is a "certificate"?

Secondly- how do you know the diamonds were accurately graded?
you've not named who told you the grades- but any gemologist worth his salt will tell you that NO grade besides GIA is going to be used by the trade, to set a price.
No matter how good an apprasaier, or gemologist, there's so great a price difference between a G and an H, for example, that no dealer will pay for a G based on the word of ANYONE but GIA ( or AGSL)

Thirdly- what is your interest in trying to promote the idea that EGL is on par with GIA?
I've been doing this for over 30 years.
I;ve looked at thousands of stones graded by EGL.
EGL grades are totally inconsistent- and there's different EGL's with different results.
Sellers trying to equate EGL grades with accurately graded GIA grades rip off uneducated consumers daily.
What else did you want to know?

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="new4diamond|

2) I did not see anything in my post that indicated an inaccurate lad report. Just the opposite, my post was intended to show that I purchased diamonds with a EGL report that was very accurate.

[/quote]

then ask yourself this Q...why didn't the cutter send these stones to GIA or AGS lab for grading?

 

[denverappraiser]

I'm glad you're happy but I’m a little confused. You bought 3 different stones after considering hundreds, all from different vendors, and had a good experience with only one of them. This speaks well of the final DEALER, whose name you didn’t even mention, but it says remarkably little about the reliability of EGL. You had the grading confirmed by an ICGA who presumably you find reliable but then also omitted their name. Actually, the only player in this 4 month long story that you mention by name and as an endorsement for others to consider is EGL where you weren’t even the client. May I ask why? Wasn't it the dealer and the appraiser who are actually the ones you were/are relying on and who helped you to a successful conclusion?

No, I relied on my own educated guess....must of lucked out

I'm all for becoming your own expert and then relying on your own expertise although there are certain traps to this. That's not what you said in the original post, which is the only info we have to go on about your experience or your purchase. You said that you relied on EGL, that you saved hundreds of dollars by doing so, and are clearly encouraging others to follow this same path. That’s what I’m trying to clarify. What's the path you're suggesting? Reliance on EGL or not? I'm even ok with accepting good luck. Take it where you can get it but I wouldn't suggest it as a shopping plan and I can't imagine you are either. What’s confusing me is that the gestalt of your original post is as an endorsement of EGL and only EGL, not good luck, not good education and not good council, all of which by your own statements played major if not dominant roles. Why?

 

[Haven]

This site is dedicated to consumer education. An educated diamond consumer is one who understand that EGL grading is often softer than GIA or AGS grading.

Many PSers choose to buy EGL stones after having this information, and that is okay. That is the point. For consumers to have the information they need to make an educated purchase.

You bought an EGL-graded stone and you're happy with it. That's wonderful. As a now-educated consumer, you know that the EGL grading is probably a big more favorable than what the stone would have been graded if sent to GIA. You knew that going into the purchase, and that makes all the difference.

I have never seen anyone bashing EGL. All that is shared about EGL is that it often grades softer than GIA, so as a consumer you should know that when relying on diamond grading to figure out *what* you are buying and *how much* you should be paying for it.

It would be very helpful for our site if you would share the EGL certs and then the appraisals that the EGL-graded stones received. This is one more piece of information that consumers could use when making decisions. I know you shared details in your posts, but the actual documents will be very helpful, if you're willing to share your experience for the benefit of other consumers.

 

[new4diamond]

This site is dedicated to consumer education. An educated diamond consumer is one who understand that EGL grading is often softer than GIA or AGS grading. Yes, I understood this could be the case.

Many PSers choose to buy EGL stones after having this information, and that is okay. That is the point. For consumers to have the information they need to make an educated purchase. I agree

You bought an EGL-graded stone and you're happy with it. That's wonderful. As a now-educated consumer, you know that the EGL grading is probably a big more favorable than what the stone would have been graded if sent to GIA. You knew that going into the purchase, and that makes all the difference.I think the grading on what I purchase was accurate, my opinion.

I have never seen anyone bashing EGL. All that is shared about EGL is that it often grades softer than GIA, so as a consumer you should know that when relying on diamond grading to figure out *what* you are buying and *how much* you should be paying for it.I have a different take on this, just my opinion.

It would be very helpful for our site if you would share the EGL certs and then the appraisals that the EGL-graded stones received. This is one more piece of information that consumers could use when making decisions. I know you shared details in your posts, but the actual documents will be very helpful, if you're willing to share your experience for the benefit of other consumers.I will try to put something together if I can.

 

[new4diamond]

I'm glad you're happy but I’m a little confused. You bought 3 different stones after considering hundreds, all from different vendors, and had a good experience with only one of them. This speaks well of the final DEALER, whose name you didn’t even mention, but it says remarkably little about the reliability of EGL. You had the grading confirmed by an ICGA who presumably you find reliable but then also omitted their name. Actually, the only player in this 4 month long story that you mention by name and as an endorsement for others to consider is EGL where you weren’t even the client. May I ask why? Wasn't it the dealer and the appraiser who are actually the ones you were/are relying on and who helped you to a successful conclusion?

No, I relied on my own educated guess....must of lucked out

I'm all for becoming your own expert and then relying on your own expertise although there are certain traps to this. That's not what you said in the original post, which is the only info we have to go on about your experience or your purchase. You said that you relied on EGL, that you saved hundreds of dollars by doing so, and are clearly encouraging others to follow this same path. That’s what I’m trying to clarify. What's the path you're suggesting? Reliance on EGL or not? I'm even ok with accepting good luck. Take it where you can get it but I wouldn't suggest it as a shopping plan and I can't imagine you are either. What’s confusing me is that the gestalt of your original post is as an endorsement of EGL and only EGL, not good luck, not good education and not good council, all of which by your own statements played major if not dominant roles. Why?

I certainly don't want to confuse you, its no big deal. I bought a pair of diamonds hoping to find something that was within my budget, at a fair price, that had lots of sparkle.....I found 2 diamonds that did just that and told my story, gee I am not trying to sell anyone anything.....I found that with some time spent educating myself to be somewhat informed you can buy diamonds and save money....thats it, no big deal.

 

[Haven]

Thanks, New4Diamond. I think any documents you share will be very helpful for the community. And that's what PS is all about, right?

Can't wait to see these diamonds, by the way. You can post pictures over in SMTB so we can all gush over them!

 

[denverappraiser]

I certainly don't want to confuse you, its no big deal. I bought a pair of diamonds hoping to find something that was within my budget, at a fair price, that had lots of sparkle.....I found 2 diamonds that did just that and told my story, gee I am not trying to sell anyone anything.....I found that with some time spent educating myself to be somewhat informed you can buy diamonds and save money....thats it, no big deal.

Contratulations on a successful purchase.

 

[Black Jade]

Looking forward to seeing your diamonds.
I have one EGL diamond myself and it is gorgeous. The thing about EGL is not that they are 'bad' but that they grade softer than GIA or AGS (usually, not always. They are 'inconsistent' as said before). My EGL diamond was graded I SI3. I knew SI3 means 'gem quality I1). I knew the color grade of 'I' could be a GIA J or even a K. So I made sure I didn't pay more than what I would pay for a GIA graded J or K colored I1 stone (actually, I paid a lot less) and I made sure I had a great return policy. then I went to have the stone appraised. It came in as a J I1, sure enough. So all was good.

The reason people mention EGl grading on these boards is jsut to make sure the uninformed don't overpay for one of these stones. While I am perfectly happy to have a J I1 stone because it is beautiful (and inexpensive) I would be extremely irritated had I paid the price for a GIA I SI stone (which would be quite a bit more) and then found out that I actually had the equivalent of a GIA J I1. Since a grade difference one way or another in diamond color and clarity can mean a difference of $$$thousands in price, no one wants someone to think that the EGL I SI stone they bought was a 'bargain' becasue it cost less than a GIA I SI stone--which there are some dealers out there who would allow you to think that--and laugh all the way to the bank.
That's all.