My dog has cancer...need advice

[Girlrocks]

I don't post much here anymore although I do lurk quite a bit, and I am in need of some unbiased anonymous advice.

I have a lab that will be 13 in November. She is still very sweet, however, she is definitely showing her age. She has lots of lumps and bumps, she needs help getting up off of the tile/wood floor, needs help getting up and down stairs, can barely hear, is getting blind, and I've started noticing some discolored spots on my carpet where I suspect she is losing urine. Her back legs are very, very weak. We noticed about a week ago that one of her toenails was like crazy long and kind of sticking up, and she started licking at it yesterday morning, so I made an appointment yesterday afternoon to get her nails trimmed. Hubby and kids tagged along as we were going to pick up carry out on the way home. We are all in the exam room (kids included), vet tech takes doggy in the back to get her nails trimmed. Two minutes later the vet comes in the room and says "we didn't trim her nails, she has cancer." Cold. Vet tech brings doggy back in. As a lab, she is going crazy trying to get the vets attention. She never once even looked at the dog, not a pat on the head, nothing.

As I am stumbing around trying to comprehend what she said, she says that she does not do the surgery to remove the toe, but she can refer me somewhere else, it's like $2000. But if I want, she can put her to sleep right now. Just like that. In front of my kids.

We told her we needed to think about it, so we paid $55 for an "examination" and left.

Hubby and I couldn't believe it. I made an appointment at another vet to just get a second opinion.

Took her there today. Nicest people you ever wanted to meet. Vet got down on the floor and was rolling around with my dog, covered in dog hair and slobber. She did confirm that she has cancer growing at the base of the nail. She however, does do the surgery to remove the toe, and it is less than $2000. There are going to work up a price quote and call me this afternoon.

Since yesterday, this toe/tumor has started oozing; she scraped it last night on our sidewalk and it bled like crazy. It is still kind of weepy/oozy today. Vet #2 bandaged it up nicely.

So here's the dilemma:

Spend $XX.XX on a 13 year old lab to have a cancerous toe removed. Even without the cancer, she is still declining in health (although NOT in spirit) and maybe at most has another year left. As it is, she already has a lot of trouble getting around, so the removal of this toe could make that worse, or even to the point that she could not get up or walk at all-no way to tell until after the surgery. There is also the chance that his cancer has already metastasized.

or, try to work with this tumor, bandaging the foot so as to not have her lick it or scrape it for as long as we can and then have her put to sleep.

I am really torn about what to do. I am a sobbing blubbering mess, my kids are a mess. If she were younger, I would not hesitate to do the surgery. I feel like a real B**** for not spending the money on her, but I have to look at the big picture.

 

[VRBeauty]

GR -First, I am very sorry for the dilemma you're facing, and the pain that you and your family, including your beloved pooch, are going through.

You're not a bad person at all for considering the bigger picture as you decide whether or not to have the vet perform this surgery. 13 is getting towards the outer limits for a dog of this size, isn't is? Plus you have your family's other needs to consider, especially those of your kids. And as you noted, you friend is showing other signs of old age.

It sounds like your new vet would be willing to have a frank discussion with you about your dog's prognosis with and without the surgery, and I hope you'll find that helpful.

A friend of mine lost his lab mix a few years ago - his faithful companion of about 15 years - under similar circumstances. Tootsie had cancer around her mouth, and a number of polyps that developed elsewhere on her coat. He had a few of the polyps removed early in the game, but at some point it became obvious that they were fighting a losing battle, and that the end was near no matter what intervention they tried. At that point he spent a few days giving her the quality time on her terms. They spent a lot of time on his front porch so she could watch the world go by - one of her favorite activities - and took a car ride down to the river. And then, when he felt they were both ready, he took her for that final trip to the vet.

Letting go of our pets is unfortunately a part of having pets in our lives. I see the grieving we go through as a sign of grace - as an indication of how much we loved them and a (sometimes welcome) reminder that we're capable of that much love.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Oh, Girlrocks, I am so sorry. It must be the hardest thing to see your beloved dog's thriving spirit inside a body that is beginning to fail. I think you really need to trust your instincts. Is there a way to determine whether the cancer has already spread? Have you talked to the vet already about keeping it bandaged? My fear would be that she would be in pain if you waited too long.

I think it is very smart to consider the big picture. Many times pet owners choose surgery, or chemo, or whatever more expensive path is available, and the pet ultimately never recovers. I've lived through this, and while there may be guilt to be experienced by choosing not to do the surgery or other options, there may also be feelings of guilt when you realize you've put your pet through additional treatments, if she ultimately does not recover as hoped. Either way, that guilt is a choice. You do not need to suffer from it. Just remember, whatever choice you make, is a choice made from love. I promise you -- she will know that too.

ETA: So nicely put, VRBeauty.

 

[tigian]

My heart goes out to you, Girlrocks. I have 2 dogs that are 4 years old and I have the fear that I will be placed in this tough position in the future, not knowing what to do. I'm so sorry you had to deal with the first vet.
If it were me, I would go with the latter option. My close friend is a vet and has told me he has seen so much cancer in Labs in particular, and many times it spreads so that nothing can be done. I would hate for my dogs to be possibly immobile, so against dog nature, and it would be heartbreaking to prolong their pain if the cancer spread. Also, I'm imagining the disappointment for your children if after the surgery, your dog was still suffering.
Obviously, there is no right answer and you have to do what is best for your family. You are wise to consider the big picture and your responsibility not only to your dog, but to your children as well.
My thoughts are with you and your dog.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Girlrocks, I am so, so sorry. My dog also has a terminal illness, and it's very hard. Everyday.

Honestly, I don't think $2K is something to take too much into consideration (says the woman who's had over $42K in vet bills in the past 18 months), so I would make the decision based on what you feel is best for the dog regardless of the costs. It may be that you feel that putting the dog through surgery at this point is too much, even if it didn't cost $2K. In any case, I wish you lots of luck, these decisions are very hard, but I know what's helped me through this process is knowing that each time we've made a decision, we've made it feeling 110% that we knew we were doing what we felt was best for our dog. Hugs to you!

 

[kenny]

I'm so sorry for everyone involved.
That first vet was such a jerk.

There is no right or wrong answer here.
Everyone will make the decision that they make and nobody else can say it was the wrong choice.

Just one word of advice . . . SCREW GUILT!!!!
Cry your tears, make your best decision and move forward one day at a time.

This is heartbreaking.
We love our dogs so much and even though they are only 5 we are already dreading the inevitable.
Hugs.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We just went through this a couple of months ago. Our dog was diagnosed with lymphoma and the vet told us we could do chemo, but that basically there was no cure. The chemo might buy the dog a few more months, but at a high cost and not necessarily good quality of life. The dog was older and we chose not to do the chemo. The vet said that we could temporarily give a high dose of prednisone which would alleviate symptoms and make him more comfortable, and we could decide later if the dog was suffering and needed to be put to sleep. As it turned out, our dog died at home in his sleep about a week later and we did not have to take him in. But if I were in your position, I would have the dog put to sleep since she is certainly near the end of her normal lifespan regardless of the cancer. I think she would suffer with the surgery and recovery, and if the cancer has spread, which is quite likely, you'll be facing the same decision again in weeks or months. I am truly sorry you have this decision, but I personally think one should not feel guilt for not spending $2000 on something that is definitely not a sure cure resulting in years of extra life. {{{hugs}}}

 

[yennyfire]

I think that the advice you've been given is all right on. I've been through this and it's an agonizing decision. If money isn't a huge issue, do what's best for your beloved dog, whatever you think that decision is...sending tons of hugs. I'm so sorry that you've been faced with this.

 

[dragonfly411]

Hi Girlrocks - First of all, I'm very sorry you are going through this. Animals become a part of our family and when they get to that point, it is like losing one of our family members. Unlike family though, they rely on us to do our best by them in their lives. If your dog has lumps and bumps then I'm going to assume she probably has some cancer somewhere that is spreading, as well as other tumors. If she is losing her bladder control, and is having trouble getting up and down, then she really is probably leading a lower quality of life. Dogs will mask their pain, especially in our presence, in an effort to please and make us happy. There was actually a study done on dogs who were neutered/spayed and in video of recovery they'd look miserable until a human came in the room and then they'd look like the happiest animals in the world. My grandmother's dog sounds very similar to your lab, and she still talks and wags her tail, but she doesn't have a very high quality of life and we are trying to convince my grandmother that her time is due. I honestly don't know that it would be worth all of that money and the stress of recovery time to do the surgery on your pup. I also don't generally recommend putting an older dog under for surgeries, as there is no guarantee that they will wake up. I also think it would put a lot of undue stress on her. Your new vet sounds like a great individual. I'd ask their assessment, but would also ask them to sit with you and your kids and explain what your dog is going through and what would be best for her. I honestly wonder if it wouldn't be best to let her go, perhaps even in the comfort of home. I know that's a very hard thing to hear, and you truly have to be the judge based on your knowledge of your dog, but that's what I would be considering. When one of mine isn't leading a healthy and happy life anymore, and it is noticeable, then I take that into consideration so they aren't suffering.

 

[jaz464]

I just wanted to chime in here to say that I have an older female lab who has verious lumps and bumps on her body as well as a middle aged mix female who is also lumpy in the torso. Both dogs have been checked out repeatedly by my vet and he has stated that they are not cancerous. He has also said that benign lumps are not uncommon in older female canines. So please do not assume the cancer has spread unless your vet confirms this. I am sorry you are dealing with this and i know firsthand how hard of a situation it is to be in.

 

[lyra]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I don't believe your dog has a good quality of life right now, and having the surgery may even make it worse for a time. I would take her to the second, caring vet, and have her put to sleep. We had to make a similar choice 2 years ago with our 13 year old Bouvier. We ended up feeling bad we hadn't done it sooner, because the vet said he had cancer (we didn't know that) and that he was probably in a lot of pain for some time. They don't show pain like humans do sometimes. We miss him still, but we have happy memories and think of him as the best dog we ever had. We talk about him often, you don't stop loving them once they aren't around. Please be at peace with this decision if you choose to go this route. Take care.

 

[bee*]

I'm in my final year of vet school and on a personal level have had to deal with my own elderly dog undergoing surgery for cancer more than once. Firstly, the first vet you went to doesn't sound great and it's good that you went to get a second opinion. I would talk to your new vet and talk about what you would like to do and if you are going to opt for surgery, I would run some bloods beforehand and make sure that her liver and kidney enzymes are within normal limits. My dog is 14 and had her last op last year and even though she is a bit stiff getting up and down, her bloods were perfect as were her lungs and heart, so for me it was worth it to operate (she had mammary tumours). You know your dog better than anyone so you will know how her quality of life is. There is medication that can help her with arthritis and incontinence if that is a route that you would like to go also. Is it a squamous cell carcinoma did they say?

 

[bee*]

. I also don't generally recommend putting an older dog under for surgeries, as there is no guarantee that they will wake up. I also think it would put a lot of undue stress on her.

There is no guarantee with any anaesthesia but with pre-op testing and modern anaesthetics, the risk of an elderly dog having complications under anaesthesia is extremely slim.

 

[Allison D.]

I don't have anything to offer by way of advice; only you know what's really best for her/your family. I just wanted to say how very sorry I am; my 10-year old dog means the absolute world to me and I'm myself dreading the day I might be in a similar position.

You have the best handle on what her quality of life is; let that help guide you.

 

[nfowife]

We just went through this with one of our labs a few months ago. Unfortunately our lab's cancer had metastasized and was in her intestine so it was much harder to treat. She was 9 1/2. The vet was optimistic about treating her so we went ahead but it was too far along and she didn't have the strength to make it through the surgeries.
I'm really glad we tried to do what we could and the vet did give us a realistic picture of what the chances were. Is there a way they can find out if the cancer is just localized to the toe or what is going on, a total picture? I think a toe removal is not that big a deal in terms of quality of life issues. But I do agree a 13 year old purebred lab is nearing the end of their lives as well. It's a hard decision.

Ultimately you need to make the decision you feel is best for your dog AND your family. Vet #1 was a callous jerk and I think you should write a letter to the practice stating your upset about how the situation was handled. A vet should "get" more than anyone else how important an animal can be to a family. Poo on them.

 

[Girlrocks]

Thanks everyone. This is such a hard decision and I appreciate hearing other's perspectives.

The other lumps and bumps she has are non cancerous (as far as they can tell). She has several fatty tumors, one of which is the size of a cantalope under her front arm, but it can't be removed due to the risk of nerve damage to the front leg. She also has several wart-like growth which my vet said were benign tumors that grow from their oil glands. They bleed from time to time and just don't look very pretty.

I was talking to my dad tonight and he said "are you prolonging the inevitable for you or for the dog?" That's something I need to really think about. If it was up to us, of course we would have her around as long as we are here. But we have to do what's best for her.

This second vet said that it's either squamous cell or melanoma. I think she said melanoma is more like to spread; I might investigate a biopsy to see if that gives us more of an answer as to which way to go.

We will be giving this a lot of thought this weekend and hopefully we will come to terms with our decision.

BTW...I was talking to a neighbor about it, and she said that she had a cat that had to be put to sleep and she took it to vet #1. She told her she wanted to take the cat home to bury it. The vet took the cat in the back, put it in a black trashbag and came back into the room and handed her the trash bag. And my older daughters told me that while my kids were all crying in the waiting room last night, there were 2 vet techs sitting at the counter talking about what to pack for their upcoming camping trip, and my older daughters were consoling the younger siblings. Those 2 never said one word to my kids, didn't offer a tissue, nothing.

 

[iheartscience]

If I were in your shoes I would do the surgery to get her toe removed and go from there. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting an animal through chemo if the prognosis wasn't good, but a relatively simple surgery doesn't seem like too much to put a dog through. Especially since you say that she's otherwise in good spirits and overall fairly healthy.

Hugs to you...it's so hard when our pets get older. I just wish they could all live forever!

 

[innerkitten]

Poor doggy! I don't know what to say about that first vet. She sounds so awful! I would also consider removing the toe. So sorry that you and your family are having to go through with this

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I'm sorry to hear about your puppy's cancer .

I'm a believer in a dog letting you know when the time is right. So, if this were my dog, I'd do the surgery. For me it wouldn't be about prolonging the inevitable, it would be about quality of life. If my dog was still eating, drinking, excited to see me, had energy for the things he enjoyed and wasn't in pain...I'd go to any extremes to save his life, even if for only a year.

I'm sure it's a tough call to make, and one I dread making some day like you wouldn't believe. I wish you peace no matter what you choose.

 

[honey22]

Ditto Italia. If your doggy was showing signs of slowing down or nearing the end so to speak, I might feel differently, but from what you describe, I would take the chance.

Sending you lots of dust that your doggie is alright, as they say there is nothing quite like the company of a dogs companionable sigh.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You said: "I have a lab that will be 13 in November. She is still very sweet, however, she is definitely showing her age. She has lots of lumps and bumps, she needs help getting up off of the tile/wood floor, needs help getting up and down stairs, can barely hear, is getting blind, and I've started noticing some discolored spots on my carpet where I suspect she is losing urine. Her back legs are very, very weak."

This sweet doggie is clearly at the end of her life regardless of the toe. I know how you must feel...I would feel some guilt about the hesitation to spend that much money when the dog is at the end of her life anyway, but my heart would tell me that the best thing to do is to let her go before she declines too much more. I think $2000 is a lot of money, and if we had been offered that option for a dog clearly at the end of life, we would say no to the surgery. I have to think that prolonging the inevitable would be harder for children as well. But these are my thoughts in terms of my family, and I know you will do what is best for your dog and family either way!

 

[mayerling]

I don't know what to say except that you are in my thoughts.

I was in a similar situation with two of my labs a few years ago so all this sounds very familiar. All I can say is that we made a decision on the basis of how much the dogs would suffer in each situation, and what kind of quality of life they would have.

 

[makemepretty]

I feel for you, it is one of the hardest decisions you will have to make. I've had many dogs in my life and they're always such a blessing but not a single one has ever passed away in their sleep. It's physically painful to watch your loved one dying in front of you, hoping they'll close their eyes and just fall asleep and not wake up but it doesn't happen like that, you end up rushing to the emergency vet, in tears, hoping they can end the suffering that you are witnessing.

My last little girl, a 12 year old chihuahua, was laying in my husbands lap, lost her urine, tongue hanging out of her mouth and eyes wide open not blinking. I couldn't see her breathing but yet, she was not dead. My teen boys were bawling, we were all a mess. Those are not the last memories you want. A dignified trip to the vet before it gets to that stage with pain medicine,petting and calmness is much preferred. It will still kill you inside to know you made the decision but it's honestly no different than when a terminally ill cancer patient is given more morphine until they "go towards the white light". It is truly better now than later, when the pain will be greater and so will her suffering.

 

[diamondringlover]

I am sorry about your pet, I have been there in January 2007, our beloved mixed bred lab, Pepper was 12 years old and she had fatty growths for some time, then one grew on her back leg, it was aggressive, so we took her to the vet and had it removed, within 2-3 weeks it started growing back, they didnt tell it was cancer at the time, we changed vets, it was cancer. She was 12 and half at the time we took her to a animal oncologist they told us it would cost around 1500 - 2000 to do chemo and it would only buy her around a year or not and they said because of her age there was no guarantees, we opted to have her put down we waited for sometime after the diagnosis to do this and Pepper rapidly declined, within a month or so, she would no longer eat and she was wasting away, the tumor broke open and bleed everywhere, she was miserable, we finally had her put down, it is very hard, we loved her very much, after she was creamated we had her remains sent to a local funeral home and they put her ashes in a beautiful wood box with her name and birth and death date on it. I guess I am rambling, anyway if you do make the decision to have the pet put down, please dont wait to long, I think our puppy suffered because we couldnt let go and I do regret that. Good luck on your decision and my prayers go out to your family.

 

[gemgirl]

I'm not here to give you advice, I'm only going to tell you what we did in a similar situation. We had a 13 yr. old beagle/dashie mix that developed what appeared to be bleeding ulcers and complete urinary tract failure on top of being totally deaf and almost completely blinded by cataracts. We took her to a new Vet, someone called "Our Favorite Vet", a moniker borrowed by the Vet's cable show. Long story short, the Vet wanted to do a $3500.- exploratory belly surgery on our dog to truly assess the extent of her problems. After a $450.- Vet's visit the I couldn't afford, I came home literally crying carrying my dog. My husband believed it to be a waste of money to spend that kind of money on an aging dog with other health issues but did say- open a new credit card and have her surgery if that's what I really wanted. I didn't. I couldn't do that to us, we were already struggling financially. In the end, I treated her with antibiotics and healthy alternatives to prescription meds (like acidophilus, St. John's Wart, Rescue Remedy, brewer's yeast and garlic, and something else I can't remember for her urinary failure. She lived for almost another year and a half, and then it was time for her to cross over. My new Vet told me I was extending her life beyond the point that God intended with all the medication she was on. Absolutely, the hardest part of pet ownership is letting go, and knowing when and having the courage to let them go. None of this was meant to sway you either way. This was just our journey with our dear Brandy who left us six years ago after a long and happy life.

 

[Girlrocks]

Wow, you all have given me great stories to ponder as I try to make this decision. One thing a couple of you have brought up that I didn't think about is...I don't want my kids to "get their hopes up" so to speak by having this surgery done. Also, where do I draw the line? What if I do this surgery and in six months she needs more surgery and more surgery...when is enough, enough? I've been talking about this a lot to my older 2 kids, and I told them that the last gift we can ever give our pets is to know when to let them go and not have them suffer.

When I was a kid, my neighbors had a dog that could not walk at all the last 2 years of it's life. They literally carried the dog outside, layed it in the grass, it did it's business all over itself and they carried the dog back inside and cleaned it up multiple times day and night. I remember thinking I could never let a dog suffer like that, but I guess they couldn't see the suffering because they loved her so much. I hope that I don't let me love (and yes, guilt) make her suffer at all.

Over the past few weeks, she won't go for walks anymore. We all head out, she plants herself firmly at the end of our driveway and WILL NOT MOVE. We were joking that she was becoming a stubborn old woman, maybe it was the heat, etc. Maybe she's trying to tell us something like Italia said. She can't even get into the car anymore by herself. I'm breaking my back hoisting her into my minivan twice this week. In HER head, she's the same big ol' dumb slobbering lab, but her body just isn't keeping up with her.

 

[Hera]

I would do the toe surgery but not any chemo or anything like that. I think that's where you should draw the line.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Girlrocks, I have no doubt the kids already know that the dog is older and won't live many more years, I don't think that having the surgery would mean that they get their hopes up and expect her to be active again. If $2K would extend the dog's life another 6 months, and those months were good-quality months, I think it would be worth it. I know it's a personal decision, but if she needs more surgery in 6 months, that would be a bridge you could cross then.

The fact that she seems okay walking around outside (even if she isn't going on walks) seems fairly positive to me. And there are many devices that can aid you in getting elderly dogs in an out of the vehicle. I use a "hold 'em up" harness to get our 150 lb. paralyzed dog in and out of the car every week to take him to hydrotherapy (which is great for aging dogs). It took us a few months to find the right tools to move him around comfortably--I can't tell you how many different contraptions we have, most of which don't work too well.

I know that trying to navigate through the right decisions when you have an aging, ailing dog is very difficult--I wouldn't say there are right or wrong decisions, it's just a matter of what you feel is best. I've made 2 appointments to have Byron put down and ended up canceling both of them. Part of the reason I was ready to put him down is because I felt he wasn't living, but surviving. And part of the reason was because I was so depressed and overhwhelmed with his care. I know that in my situation, Byron isn't in pain and still has light in his eyes--I'm staring at him now as he lies on the patio smelling the breeze. So I feel like I would feel a lot of guilt if I ended up putting him down because a small piece of me was tired. That's why this is so hard and so personal.

I would defnitely continue exploring all of your options and continue talking with the new vet and your family about what you feel is best. I would also look into some therapies that may help her with aging--there is a 16-year-old lab who does hydrotherapy every weekend before Byron and it's done wonders for helping his hips. Plus I'm a big fan of Cosamin, which I feel is the best glucosamine + chondroitin product on the market. And harnesses for getting aging dogs in and out of the vehicle are very helpful. I wish you lots of luck.

 

[Kaleigh]

Girlrocks,
I am so sorry. I am in the same position sans cancer. I grew up with labs, often the hip dispasia is the thing that makes life so hard for them.

If it were me ( and am dealing with a 17 year old, blinf deaf and incontinent ) I would do the surgery on the toe.. Give him the best shot. But only YOU and your family know his quality of life. Casper is a Bichon Frise and is happy as a clam . He has to wear a male diaper but other than that he's ok. No pain. Once I see that he's struggling, I will do right by him.

Sending a big hug to you. I have been there , and am here again..

He will let you know. Labs have those eyes that reach deep.....

 

[LGK]

Oh man. I am so very sorry to hear this. I just lost my two older boy kitties within weeks of each other this summer. In both cases, anaesthesia was too much for their poor little bodies to recover from. While not as much concern, I suppose, for a larger dog as an underweight, 6lb cat, I would worry about whether the surgery would just be too much for her to handle anyway. In short, I think if I were you I might just bandage her foot and spend some serious quality time with her. (Maybe. It's *really* hard to let go and admit you can't fix everything.) Surgery and/or anaesthesia on older, infirm pets is a major, major thing for their bodies, as I found out the hard way, twice over.

I'm so sorry. Losing pets you love is just so hard.