My Baby''s An Insomniac. Please Make Me More Coffee.

[canadiangrrl]

My five month old daughter, Bliss, has started NOT sleeping through the night again.

She''ll be up from around 12 ''til 3, every. single. night.

Anyone else ever deal with this?

Advice?

Please?

 

[Allison D.]

Cda, I'm guessing teething? She's about the right age.

Perhaps some baby anbesol.....?

ETA: Another thought? Are you weaning from nursing? It seems to happen to many when they move to solid foods and miss the comfort of nursing.

Oh, and congrats on the mama-hood!

 

[diamondfan]

Is she cutting a tooth or maybe she has an ear infection? I would rule that out.

A woman whose child attends my kids school is a sleep expert.

My son at nine months did this, he is now 6. He had been cutting FOUR teeth at once, had an ear infection and had been in our room on a vacation due to a glitch. When we got home he did not want to sleep.

I managed to get a cancellation from a sympathetic scheduling nurse to see this woman, at our Children''s Hospital. She was awesome. She is more gentle than Ferber, and I followed her words. Within a week my son was falling and staying asleep on his own. She has written a few books on the subject. It was so bad prior to this that I had to sleep in his room each night or he would scream for hours.

I can give you her name if you are interested, it really does work.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Al!!! I know that''s you, girl!!! How are you?!!

Yes to both you and Diamondfan - she''s teething - and all she wants to do is nurse, nurse, nurse. I''m sitting here with her in a sling, nursing, and it''s a self-soothing thing, because she takes very little milk. Just wants to suckle. If I don''t let her do it, she cries, and it''s this low, moaning, constant cry, sort of like wailing at a good old fashioned funeral. And sadly, I was kidding about the coffee - can''t, for obvious reasons. Thinking about propping my eyelids open with toothpicks.

I''ve tried topical stuff - doesn''t work for long - at least, not long enough to get her to sleep and STAY asleep. Diamondfan, if you have the name of that woman, I''d greatly appreciate it. Where are you? We are in the NoVA area, DC-ish. I will drive a couple of hours if I have to - this has been going on for over three weeks, and I seriously cannot stagger through many more days without sleep.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Oh, and no fever, no discernible ear ache (no grabbing at ears or anything.) Not trying to wean, either, she''s strictly breast for the next few months.

And yes, before anyone points it out, her name - Bliss (middle name Caroline) is terribly inappropriate right now.

 

[diamondfan]

I live in Philadelphia and she is at CHOP. She comes in once a week, used to be Wednesdays. Her name is Jodi Mindell and the book is called Sleeping through the Night. She would be in the sleep disorders group at the hospital, the main number is 215 590-1100 I think, but I am sure they have a web site. It is a great children's hospital and you could even take Amtrak. You can also get her book and see if it sounds up your alley. It is less harsh than Ferberizing and worked well for us.

She has lectured at our school too, about teens and sleep, and sleep issues in general.

What might happen with Bliss, which happened with my youngest, is that they get in the habit of having your help even after the problem has been solved. So best to nip it sooner rather than later.

Her middle name is my name, though I pronounce it Carolyn!

 

[canadiangrrl]

Oh! Thank you so much, Diamondfan! Does she believe in swaddling? I would like to try this. I will look up CHOP''s website and see if I can find her book on Amazon as well. It would be so great to find something that worked - I''m new at this, and honestly, she slept through the night at eight weeks (and she nurses on demand - I was so lucky.)

I''ve tried to let her cry it out. My husband sleeps like the dead and is up every morning at 5 - so it doesn''t bother him, and he brings her in to me to nurse (we''ve recently put her in her own room - I''m thinking this might be part of it as well.) The thing is, her crying wakes our dogs, they begin pacing, and, oh, really, it''s not about the dogs, if I''m honest, it just truly breaks my heart.

Thank you for your recommendation - much appreciated.

Her middle name is pronounced CaroLINE. It was going to be her first name - we didn''t know what we were having, wanted to be surprised - but had chosen Caroline for a girl. And then she was born, and she was all wispy blonde hair, fair skin, and big blue eyes, just like her Daddy''s. She was about an hour old, we were already calling her Caroline, and my husband said, "Look at her sleep. She''s so blissful." And I said, jokingly, "That''s what we should call her. Bliss."

He took me seriously, we instantly fell in love with the name, and Bliss she became.

 

[diamondfan]

I am not sure about the swaddling.

I know her book is on Amazon.

I do not recall the crying it out to the extent that Ferber does. She is much kinder in her approach. Ferber was tough for me to deal with.

I always thought it best to teach them to self soothe, and fall fully asleep without you. Is she still getting night feedings? Can she make it without at this point? It is usually when they reach about 12 pounds or 4 or 5 months, but I am not sure about the on demand and nursing, as I bottle fed and had a schedule. (I have three kids, and my youngest is having trouble falling asleep lately so I might call her!!!! He likes to sit in his room and read. He stays in bed, but is not asleep, so I am not sure what to do. It is not like he comes out of bed!)

Both ways, I love that name. And what a lovely story!!!

 

[Allison D.]

Many of the websites I''m checking are suggesting Baby Motrin to help ease the discomfort.

It appears baby wakes due to discomfort, and then wants comfort/reassurance, hence the want to suckle. Several folks have suggested the baby Motrin (and says it''s preferred to infant tylenol).

There are a few suggestions on sleep training that might help too.

Sorry for your trouble, C....I know it''s a difficult time. Wishing you luck (and a bit of sleep!).

 

[diamondfan]

She must be 6 months or older to have kids ibuprofen. Until then infant tylenol, but please be so careful reading the label.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Thank you both for your kindness, it''s much appreciated. I feel very confident with all of this most of the time, and then there are days/weeks like this where I feel like a total failure.

Diamondfan, she can go all night without nursing - before this episode began, she''d go from around 11 until 5 without a feed - she stopped waking up for the 2AM feed at around 3 months. She''s not a big eater, and is long and lanky. I worry about that sometimes, but her ped says she''s all right.

I tried Ferber when this began, on the recommendation of some other Mums, and I didn''t like it one bit. What I would like is for her to simply settle. Right now, I''m sitting here in the family room, in the dark. She''s on her back on the couch, moving her arms and legs, but not making much noise. This is what she does before she starts to settle - if I try it too soon (take her away from the breast) it''s mayhem. I would like her to settle without it becoming an hour long production, you know?

Al, I can''t give her Motrin just yet, but I really appreciate your efforts!!! I haven''t tried infant tylenol yet - would prefer to do this without meds - but I''m getting desperate.

Thank you for the compliment on her name, Diamondfan (and yours!) Our families didn''t like it in the beginning - but we did, it suits her, sounds great with H''s last name (garden variety two syllable British) and with all of the Graces and Faiths and Trinitys, surely the world can''t begrudge us Bliss.

Sorry if this isn''t making much sense. Brain fried.

 

[Mara]

our neighbors have the cutest 6 month old and he already is not breast feeding any longer, he has no interest in the boob at all! kids are so different from each other.

they also have had him sleeping through the night for quite a while now doing the whole sleep routine method and they do not deviate from it at all. not sure if you have read about it at all but it's pretty interesting, there are diff methods/names out there but the idea is that the baby craves routine and knowing what comes next helps soothe them. kind of like her teething causes pain and suckling makes it better and she knows that. so you could replace the routine you have going now with something else. but it has to be consistent. and i'm not sure how to move over from what you do now to the routine you want her to be on. anyway, i'd research it...she had a printout from her hospital that she used religiously.

oh and what about a paci....can you maybe start weaning her off the suckling of the boob onto the paci as a first step? though not sure that's the ideal.

it's so amazing to read you have a baby cg...it just underscores how long you have been gone...!!! i bet she's a doll (though not from 12-3 !!)

 

[canadiangrrl]

Mara, it''s so good to hear from you!!! I miss all y''all.

She''s still very interested in the breast and I''d like to keep her on it exclusively for the next few months, if I can. Mr. CG (remember him?!) and I both have hideous allergies, and neither of us were breastfed as children. In my lamebrained way, I''m hoping to stave off allergies for Bliss - or at least postpone them for awhile.

She won''t take a paci (spits it out) and I''m pretty bad with routines. I''m not working (just doing a little writing work from home when I find the time) and as a true INFP, I''ve never been great with schedules. I think she does indeed have a schedule - it''s just not my schedule, yanno? Sleeping when she sleeps (during the day) is helping me get through this, but not having deep, restful sleep kinda sucks. Okay, sucks a lot. I''ve been spoiled because she''s been so very good about sleeping, from early on, so this is a new thing for all of us. I think, psychologically, I need to get over the need to nurse her - not let her cry it out, but not let her nurse, either. Mr. CG gently pointed this out to me yesterday. He had to be gentle, because it was 2:30 in the damn morning and I had a blunt object (the remote) in my hot little hand.

She''s very cute, and yes, I''m biased. She''s fair like both of us, and has her Daddy''s huge, startling, sky blue eyes. We love her tremendously and I wholeheartedly recommend this motherhood gig. Even, like, right now.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Bliss is such a beautiful name! It gives her a lot to live up to, but I''m sure she''s fitting the bill right now (other than in the middle of the night!).

I hope the night routine gets better. I have no advice to add, just wanted to comment on a precious name!!

 

[LitigatorChick]

Canadiangrrl - I know this is tough. You are living in a sleep deprived haze, making things very difficult. In fact, I was up the better part of last night with Miller, my 21 month old, who is down and out with the flu.

Miller was not a good sleeper for the first 9/10 months of his life. He would wake up to 4 times a night, not needing to feed (near the end), but needing comfort. I am not a fan of Ferber, sleep "training" or cry it out. I believe that Miller had a need for some attention, and as his mommy, I needed to be there for him. I knew it would not last forever (although it feels like it). Until the bout of the flu, he would fall asleep on his own most nights (if he starts to cry, I rock him), and sleeps 10 hours at night.

I just want you to know that not all babies sleep through the night at 3 months, like some of the books would have us believe. Most honest moms will tell you that is not the case. I found that adjusting my expectations was the best course.

I would not recommend cry it out prior to 6 months, if you are inclined to go that route.

Try to stay strong, and if you are more inclined to look at other ideas, check out Dr. Sears'' "The Baby Book" and Elizabeth Pantley "The No Cry Sleep Solution". These might give you some gentle ideas.

 

[lauralu]

I am so sorry you are having this difficulty right now. It truely is not a projection of your mother abilities. We do the best we can given the circumstance. You can read every book and get every expert to weigh in on this subject. Yet it may or may not work.

The thing is, you need to try not to do things for her that will easily become a hard to break routine or habit for her. Suckling just to suck at the wee hours of the night is something babies take too quickly if given the chance and a very difficult habit to break them of. Yet when she is hurting and feeling yukky it''s hard not to.

I have always said that the time right after your kids are feeling better is worse than the time they were sick. They get use to extra things being done for them that usually are not and than you deal with extra crying and whinning when they are well that drives you even more crazy until you get through to them that its back to the normal. I will not get up with you in the middle of the night just because you call me when you should be sleeping...

You may also have to keep her up during the day more if she is awake a lot at night and wanting to sleep more during the day.


I don''t envy you. I did this X''s 3 and I DO remember when.... and I am happy I don''t have to do it again. Hang in there. and let us know you you are doing..

 

[LitigatorChick]

Lauralu - I have to disagree on the "habit" issue. I did everything to avoid "habits" - so much so, it drove me crazy! That may be fine for an easy baby, but for high needs babies, you have to throw out every trick in the book. The more tricks, the better.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Thanks for your kind words, everyone.

I tried CIO - it didn''t work, for her, for me, for my husband. She''s simply too young at this point. I''m of the mindset that at 5 months, she doesn''t think, she simply does, if that makes any sense - she''s very basic in what her needs are, and doesn''t calculate ways to get those needs met. I see the point about habits as it relates to an older child, but not so sure it''s applicable to a young infant. Then again, we''re all just winging it, aren''t we?

Ok, just reread that, and it''s not very clear, but hey, 3 hours of sleep and no caffeine, what do you expect.

 

[belle]

babies need to suck.(period)
that is the way they were made. they suck for:
1. survival
2. comfort

the differences are very easy to tell apart. obviously, once you have provided food, the need to suck after that is solely for comfort. if you don''t want to try to provide an alternate source of self soothing comfort, it will have to be you.
the key to getting babies to sleep through the night, at any age, is to help them figure out how to self soothe. whether that be a paci, or a fist, or soothing music, once they are able to be comforted without you, they will be able to sleep (wake and return to sleep) through the night without your assistance. if you don''t help them discover a method of self soothing, you will be it.
every parent''s big decision! best of luck with it.

 

[diamondfan]

I think good sleep habits, routines and patterns are rooted in the early months. It is what they associate with the sleep ritual.

See if Mindell''s approach works for you. At 5 months, I doubt Bliss is manipulative, but if you do not re establish some routine etc, it can become habitual and a bit manipulative as time goes by. Babies are instinctive and very smart and they learn at a young age what works. It is not pure manipulation at that point, but rather, a sense of mastery that certain things go a certain way in certain circumstances. It is very basic but still rewarding to them.

 

[belle]

Date: 3/10/2008 10:20:16 AM
Author: diamondfan
I think good sleep habits, routines and patterns are rooted in the early months. It is what they associate with the sleep ritual.

See if Mindell''s approach works for you. At 5 months, I doubt Bliss is manipulative, but if you do not re establish some routine etc, it can become habitual and a bit manipulative as time goes by. Babies are instinctive and very smart and they learn at a young age what works. It is not pure manipulation at that point, but rather, a sense of mastery that certain things go a certain way in certain circumstances. It is very basic but still rewarding to them.

well said df! you are right on.

 

[canadiangrrl]

I think what''s difficult here is that I haven''t had to deal with this until now. Bliss had a routine, and for a strictly breast, on demand baby, she was remarkably "routinized." With the advent of teething (and I think, the switch from the master bedroom to her nursery) that routine''s gone out the window. Getting it back is the key to saving my sanity and ensuring I don''t do other stupid things like I did earlier this morning...letting the dogs out, and forgetting they were out, because I fell asleep...in a kitchen chair.

Diamondfan, I''m getting the Mindell book. LitigatorChick, I hope Miller feels better soon. It''s no fun being sick, and especially no fun being little and sick.

 

[belle]

cg, what was her routine previously?

 

[canadiangrrl]

Up until around 3 months, she fed every 3-4 hours. She''s not a big eater at any one nursing. At 3 months, she began to go more like every 4-5 hours. She''d nurse around suppertime, nurse again at 11, and sleep solidly until 5. A month ago, we moved her out of our bedroom, and into the nursery. She was fine for a week or so, then began waking every night, at around 12ish. It lasts until around 3 or so. She has 2 teeth coming in, I can feel them and see the white bumps. She''s drooling, but not feverish, and eating less. I have an appointment with her ped on Wednesday. My feeling is that she''s not sick, just teething, but want to rule out anything else just in case.

 

[belle]

was she in a crib in your room or is this a total transition >new bed>new room?
what does she do during the 12-3 time? is she fully awake or just not allowing you to put her down?

what makes you think she is eating less?

(btw..i am a certified lacation consultant. i''m not trying to diagnose or treat any problems here, just trying to get some information so i can pass on some relative suggestions that you may find helpful!

)

 

[lauralu]

[/quote]
Lauralu - I have to disagree on the "habit" issue. I did everything to avoid "habits" - so much so, it drove me crazy! That may be fine for an easy baby, but for high needs babies, you have to throw out every trick in the book. The more tricks, the better.


Hi there...I don''t think her little baby is a high needs baby. Just going thru a more difficult time with teething It''s pretty much what every mom deals with at one time or another if their little ones are in distress and pain from cutting teeth.
As I stated. You can read every book and have experts weigh in on what you should do. Only for it not to work for your baby. Than you feel like a failure when your not....

My feeling is that Babies are not manipulative. They learn what works for them as we learn what works for them. However, given a chance to lay with mommy suckling at wee hours of the night a baby will almost always choose to want to do that for as long as possible. Trying to find the right balance when they are feeling crappy and need you is so difficult and only really dealt with as it happens on a situation by situation basis. IMHO anyway. Every mother has to do what feels right for them and their baby.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Thanks, Belle, it''s appreciated, believe me.

She slept in a travel crib in our room. Occasionally, she slept in her crib in her own room, but never at night, only during the daytime. So she went from the travel crib in our room, to the crib in her own room. See what I mean? I''m half-tempted to see if she''ll sleep through the night back in our room. But that would be taking a step back, since we want her in her own room.

When she''s awake in the night, she''s fully awake. She drifts off, usually if I put her in her sling and let her nurse, but she awakens very easily, and will begin crying unless she''s allowed to suckle.

I know she''s eating less because she''s suckling with less focus, and not draining me as much as she normally would. It''s not especially drastic, but given that I''ve been nursing her now for five months, I''m able to notice. She will eat dedicatedly sometimes, but other times, she just kind of meanders at the breast, and I know she''s not suckling out of hunger.

I appreciate your responses. Going back to bed for awhile, she''s sleeping.

 

[diamondfan]

Out of my three, only one used a pacifier. And I took it at 17 months. Some kids do not, two of mine spat it out no matter what. Right now you are, and should be, a source of comfort. And since this is new behavior, I would look for causes, such as the teething. That teething is a misery. A dentist I know said adults would need heavy meds to get through it. So it stands to reason it would upset her routine and be tough and she would need comforting. I think of course, during the period she is in active pain, you give it. The only thing then, after the teething (and until the next thing that might crop up) is you must re set her back to her routine. That takes some doing in some cases.

 

[Demelza]

My condolences on the sleep deprivation. My 16 month old daughter has always been a TERRIBLE sleeper, so I really feel your pain. There are lots of tips and tricks out there, some of which we''ve found helpful and others not so much, but I always feel like it comes down to this question: do you believe that it is appropriate for your child at this particular age to require your assistance in going to sleep or do you believe that babies need to be taught how to sleep by themselves without any intervention? The latter usually involves some amount of crying it out and, depending upon your baby''s temperament, it may be a lot or a little. The former involves a lot of sleepless nights for mom and dad until the baby reaches the point developmentally where it''s ready to sleep through the the night.

A couple of thoughts: Is it possible that she''s going through a growth spurt? Around 5-6 months is a typical time for babies to require additional feedings round the clock to boost their calorie intake. Is it also possible that she''s just not ready to be in her own room? I know you feel like it would be going backwards to bring her back in, but perhaps she''ll feel more ready in a month or so?

What is her sleep like before 12 and after 3? What time does she go to sleep and how do you get her to sleep? What are her naps during the day like? How many hours of sleep is she getting in a 24 hour period?

 

[mrssalvo]

you''ve gotten some good suggestions as for as sleeping. I did just want to chime in that Hyland makes a teething tablet that works wonders. they sell it at drugstores and walmart/target so you might try that.