My 1st diamond

[zaijian]

Long time listener, first time caller, yada yada

So, I''ve been dealing with a friend of a friend for an engagement ring. I''ve picked out a Leo Ingwer ring, and this is the diamond I''m putting in it, which I have not seen, but I hear is fantastic.

Carat: 1.03
Cut: Round Brilliant
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Depth: 63.1%
Table: 57%
Crown: 15%
Pavilion: 43%
Girdle: thin -> medium
Polish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Culet: none

The EGL cert specifies "Tolkowsky cut" and "hearts and arrows". Based on what I''ve read here, this is most likely an EGL Israel cert because it specifies "Tolkowsky", and therefore the quality is suspect. I''ve run these numbers through the HCA, and it seems to fall within the AGS Ideal candidate range.

So, from the numbers, how will this diamond do, and are there any comparable ones online (say at WF or GOG) that I can compare prices to?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/25/2008 12:46:18 PM
Author:zaijian
Long time listener, first time caller, yada yada

So, I've been dealing with a friend of a friend for an engagement ring. I've picked out a Leo Ingwer ring, and this is the diamond I'm putting in it, which I have not seen, but I hear is fantastic.

Carat: 1.03
Cut: Round Brilliant
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Depth: 63.1%
Table: 57%
Crown: 15%
Pavilion: 43%
Girdle: thin -> medium
Polish: VG
Symmetry: VG
Culet: none

The EGL cert specifies 'Tolkowsky cut' and 'hearts and arrows'. Based on what I've read here, this is most likely an EGL Israel cert because it specifies 'Tolkowsky', and therefore the quality is suspect. I've run these numbers through the HCA, and it seems to fall within the AGS Ideal candidate range.

So, from the numbers, how will this diamond do, and are there any comparable ones online (say at WF or GOG) that I can compare prices to?

Welcome!

Do you have the diameter measurements of this diamond? This diamond appears to be deep and it may look small for it's weight as a result. You can use the search tool above to get a feel for prices of similar diamonds, unless you are absolutely set on this one, I would look some more. If you want hearts and arrows, some of the vendors such as Good old Gold, Wink Jones, Whiteflash and James Allen sell some fabulous diamonds. If you could give us an idea of budget, perhaps we could show you some other diamonds which might suit you? Maybe it might be worth considering buying from someone who is impersonal, rather than the friend of a friend. But if you really want this diamond, best to get an independant appraisal and make the sale final on this diamond checking out.

This link may be useful too https://www.pricescope.com/hearts_indx.asp

 

[Ellen]

Date: 3/25/2008 12:46:18 PM
Author:zaijian
Long time listener, first time caller, yada yada

So, I''ve been dealing with a friend of a friend for an engagement ring. I''ve picked out a Leo Ingwer ring, and this is the diamond I''m putting in it, which I have not seen, but I hear is fantastic.

That line rarely produces a stone we all say good job about. And honestly, this one is no exception.

If you''d like to give us a budget, we''ll be more than happy to help you find a killer stone. But either way, as Lorelei suggested, keep looking. And stick to AGS/GIA stones.

 

[zaijian]

Date: 3/25/2008 1:12:49 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/25/2008 12:46:18 PM

Author:zaijian
I''ve been dealing with a friend of a friend for an engagement ring. I''ve picked out a Leo Ingwer ring, and this is the diamond I''m putting in it, which I have not seen, but I hear is fantastic.

That line rarely produces a stone we all say good job about. And honestly, this one is no exception.


If you''d like to give us a budget, we''ll be more than happy to help you find a killer stone. But either way, as Lorelei suggested, keep looking. And stick to AGS/GIA stones.

Heh, all I meant by that is that she''s a legit jeweler who works by referral only. She''s a nice gal and a good friend referred me. And from a look around the web, she''s giving me a great price. She''s selling me the diamond I listed above for under $6k, and giving me a very good price on the platinum setting.

But at the same time, I''m double-checking the diamond You know what they say, trust but verify.

 

[zaijian]

Date: 3/25/2008 12:49:19 PM
Author: Lorelei
Do you have the diameter measurements of this diamond? This diamond appears to be deep and it may look small for it''s weight as a result. You can use the search tool above to get a feel for prices of similar diamonds, unless you are absolutely set on this one, I would look some more. If you want hearts and arrows, some of the vendors such as Good old Gold, Wink Jones, Whiteflash and James Allen sell some fabulous diamonds. If you could give us an idea of budget, perhaps we could show you some other diamonds which might suit you? Maybe it might be worth considering buying from someone who is impersonal, rather than the friend of a friend. But if you really want this diamond, best to get an independant appraisal and make the sale final on this diamond checking out.

Sorry, didn''t get the diameter from her, and she''s already put the stone and the cert away in a safety deposit box. I will go by and check it out tomorrow, though.

Before I knew anything at all about rings & diamonds, I was thinking about spending $4k. Then I found out a little more and decided on $6k. Then I found the ring and diamond I wanted, and it''s going to be about $8.5k. Sigh

 

[zaijian]

I''m going to see the diamond today - is there anything I should specifically look out for (at least, that I can physically see)? At the very least I''ll have an ideal-scope to look at it with.

Lorelei mentioned that the diameter may be small - for a 1.03 ct, what is the ideal diameter range?

Also, I should see a copy of the EGL cert (which I''m guessing will be EGL-Israel), is there anything I should look for there?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/26/2008 9:49:29 AM
Author: zaijian
I'm going to see the diamond today - is there anything I should specifically look out for (at least, that I can physically see)? At the very least I'll have an ideal-scope to look at it with.

Lorelei mentioned that the diameter may be small - for a 1.03 ct, what is the ideal diameter range?

Also, I should see a copy of the EGL cert (which I'm guessing will be EGL-Israel), is there anything I should look for there?

You want the diameter measurements to hit 6.5mm for a 1 carat round thereabouts. Also if you really want this diamond, make the sale final on it checking out with an independant appraiser.

 

[zaijian]

Date: 3/26/2008 12:21:45 PM
Author: Lorelei
You want the diameter measurements to hit 6.5mm for a 1 carat round thereabouts. Also if you really want this diamond, make the sale final on it checking out with an independant appraiser.

Ok, I just got back from seeing the diamond. The measurements are 6.40-6.35x4.02, and the EGL cert is 285302xxxx. The cert specifies "8 HEARTS & ARROWS" and "TOLKOWSKY IDEAL CUT", and the fluorescence is "Slight".

Given Lorelei''s recommendation of 6.5, it seems that 6.4 is kind of small for a 1.0 ct diamond.

Also, when looking in the scope at the hearts, I noticed that one of the hearts had some sort of weird refraction going on, as the crown of one heart wasn''t sharp at all and had 2 valleys instead of 1.

But overall, at normal magnification under fluorescent lighting, the diamond did sparkle and look pretty.

So, i''m at a crossroads. My jeweler is a nice gal and has done a lot of working with me on the setting and diamond-hunting. I''d like to give her the business, but it sounds like this diamond may not be all that great. My price for the diamond is $5850 before tax, which she says is a great price (after tax it''ll be $6260).

Obviously, I can probably find a better diamond for cheaper online, but I''d still want to make sure I do right by my jeweler as well. Any recommendations?

 

[Circe]

What''s that old saying about friends and business? Knowing that the stone is less than ideal/outside of your parameters, I doubt that she''ll hold it against you if you tell her that you want to keep looking: if you really want to work with this woman, ask her to keep looking for other stones, keep looking online, and see if she''ll price-match. But if you find something you adore online, don''t hesitate too much for reasons of etiquette ... you''re not exactly wasting her time, given that you''ve found the setting you want (gorgeous!) through her, and will undoubtedly remember this and give her your business in the future on quality goods that she *does* have access to.

 

[zaijian]

What I think i''m going to do is, try find a better diamond online, buy it, then compare the two. If I like the online diamond better, I''ll tell her to send back the other one, but i''ll pay her the difference in price between the two diamonds. That way I can do right by her, get a better diamond for me and mine, and save on the 7% tax.

I''ve read that most online places have a money-back guarantee, so I suppose I''ll shop around. I also hear that a lot of the vendors on here also have a PS discount?

 

[niceice]

Date: 3/26/2008 12:48:22 PM
Author: zaijian

Ok, I just got back from seeing the diamond. The measurements are 6.40-6.35x4.02, and the EGL cert is 285302xxxx. The cert specifies '8 HEARTS & ARROWS' and 'TOLKOWSKY IDEAL CUT', and the fluorescence is 'Slight'.

Also, when looking in the scope at the hearts, I noticed that one of the hearts had some sort of weird refraction going on, as the crown of one heart wasn't sharp at all and had 2 valleys instead of 1.

EGL's use of the term "Tolkowsky Cut" is confusing for consumers since it seems to create a false pretense that the diamond is actually "Tolkowsky Cut" or that it is cut to the specifications dictated by Marcel Tolkowsky for his rendition of the ideal cut diamond, when in fact they are using the term to refer to a range of proportions that many would consider to be a very broad interpretation of Tolkowsky's original diamond design... A very broad interpretation indeed! No doubt Marcel Tolkowsky rolled over in his grave a time or two when EGL bought the rights to use his name to represent this classification within their "cut grade system"

No doubt that the hearts pattern seemed a bit off to you, the diamond has a depth of 63% which affects the skew of the hearts.

Diamonds are sold by weight, you're paying a one carat price per carat for a diamond that faces up like something in the 0.90 - 0.99 carat range. In my opinion, it would be better to buy something that is going to face up the same diameter in the 0.90 - 0.99 carat range that is cut precisely and will deliver optimum visual performance. After all, one of the primary reasons to buy a diamond is because of the sparkle and you're going to get more light return out of a diamond that is crafted with more precision. If the seller is truly your friend, she'll be happy to help you find a more beautiful diamond that is a better value for your money. Keep in mind that your friend may not be as aware of cut precision as the people here on PS, many people within the jewelry industry are way behind the 8 ball when it comes to cut.

 

[Circe]

Well, that''s a very moral decision! And, while I''m not trying to dissuade you from it, just because I''m feeling chatty/procrastinating ....

A quick search for stones with matching specs (.96 points for roughly matching diameter to 1.03 for identical weight)shows a range of 3,000-ish to slightly above 6,000 (factor in a PriceScope discount) (also, I kind of like this one, though I''m not the numbers gal that some of our other posters are: http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-737790.htm). Now, you could definitely find a stone for less, judging by the search, but paying the difference between prices could be a considerable chunk of change that''s well above reimbursing your jeweler for her time ....

 

[zaijian]

Ok, to recap, here''s the stone I currently have:

1.03ct G SI1
cert: EGL (israel?)
meas: 6.40-6.35x4.02
depth: 63.1%
table: 57.0%
Crown: 15%
Pavilion: 43%
HCA: 1.4
Notes: Flaw in the H&A pattern, deep cut, small diameter
Price: $5850 + s&h + tax = $6273.36

My goal is to get something better for cheaper, so I found the following:

diamond #1

1.017ct E SI1
cert: AGSL
meas: 6.47-6.52x3.97
depth: 61.1%
table: 55.8%
crown: 34.3
pavilion: 40.8
HCA: 1.1
Price: $5418 wire

diamond #2

1.017ct G SI1
cert: AGSL
meas: 6.42-6.46x3.98
depth: 61.8%
table: 56.3%
crown: 33.9
pavilion: 40.9
HCA: 1.2
Price: $5143 wire

diamond #3

1.01ct G SI1
cert: AGSL
meas: 6.42-6.45x3.97
depth: 61.7%
table: 56.9%
crown: 34.7
pavilion: 40.8
HCA: 0.9
Price: $5815 wire

Right now, I''m leaning towards diamond #1 ... what''s your take?