Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to con

[april4]

consider it?

Most of what I read (outside of PS) says a woman must explicitly mention her interest in becoming married for the man to consider it; that men don't respond well to "hints" but that the woman should express her desire to get married if she has one.

Is this true? And what then about women with respect for traditional gender roles who prefer to wait for the man to ask?

All of the marriages in my circle resulted from women FIRMLY expressing their desire (if not nagging their men) to be married. I don't know one man who proposed out of the blue, entirely of his own volition. BUT I am young (late 20s) and I think time will change this phenomenon.

Do men now expect women to demand a proposal? Will it never happen if the girl doesn't ask for a ring?

Please forgive me if this sounds cynical, especially on the LIW board, it is NOT meant to be, I'm interested in your experiences (and perhaps stories you've heard) which partner mentioned marriage first, etc.

 

[canuk-gal]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

HI:

My partner expressed it first, continued to mention it until I relented (I never really wanted to get married...). We got engaged without a ring, planned a wedding and got married within 8 months. I tried to get out of it a few times, but he held fast! For what it is worth, all my serious partners (I was engaged before my marriage) mentioned marriage first--I never brought it up.

cheers--Sharon

 

[chemgirl]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

I'm in my twenties and my husband was the one to bring up marriage. I think that there's a point in a relationship where you should discuss marriage to make sure that you're both on the same page, but I don't think that means demanding and nagging. A simple "so where do you see this going?" talk should really be enough for him to get the hint.

Come to think of it, of my friends who are engaged or married, it seems that usually the man took initiative and proposed when the timing was right (and after a lot of discussion about how they saw married life). The only couple I know where the girl nags about marriage is not engaged. Her boyfriend has no intention of proposing for several years and frankly I think the nagging is freaking him out.

 

[afreebird]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

I never mentioned marriage to my now-husband. He was the pursuer, from our first date to his proposal. I'm a big believer in letting a relationship take its natural course and just enjoying it. He proposed to me a little less than 11 months after our first date, and we got married six months later.

I have friends who waited/are waiting literally years for their boyfriends to propose. I don't get that, especially once you're in thirties. If you know, you KNOW. It must really be horrible to feel that you have to drop hints or make ultimatums. I don't see how that can be healthy for a relationship; the "hinter" must get her feelings hurt quite a bit, and the "hintee" must feel a little resentful or nagged. I know that it would really get on my nerves listening to someone trying to force their timeline on me. I also think that ultimatums set a bad precedent in a relationship. Are you always going to drop one whenever your partner's timeline doesn't align with yours? It would have freaked me out and made me run in the opposite direction if my husband ever applied pressure like that.

If a man wants to marry you, he will. Nothing in the world will stop him. And it's the most special thing in the world when someone shocks you by dropping to one knee in front of you and asking you to spend the rest of your life with him.

 

[anchor31]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

I think that when a relationship is becoming serious the major values and desires *need* to be addressed (marriage, children, etc.). If a woman never tells her boyfriend that marriage is important to her, how is he supposed to know? There was a time when everyone got married, it was just a matter of time, but now a lot of couples don't marry at all and are quite happy. So I frankly believe that any woman who has *never* told her boyfriend that marriage is important to her and is expecting a surprise proposal out of nowhere is setting herself up for a catastrophic disappointment.

 

[elrohwen]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

Personally, I find it strange that a man would propose if the couple had never talked about marriage. I don't think women should nag, but I think having a healthy discussion about marriage, plans for the future, etc is extremely good for the relationship. Both people need to be on the same page for a marriage to work and it's just easier to be on the same page if you've discussed everything.

I do have a very close friend who got engaged and hadn't really talked about marriage with her FI. They did talk about the future and where they would live, and she knew it was coming in a way, but she wanted it to be a complete surprise and never brought it up. She and her FI are a wonderful couple and I'm sure they'll be very happy, but I don't think their situation is the norm, at least in my experience.

FWIW, my DH brought up marriage first I think, but that was only 6 months into our relationship and long before we got engaged. We talked about it many times between that first night and the engagement.

 

[amc80]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

I'm fairly traditional as well, and I don't necessarily see anything nontraditional about the woman bringing up marriage. In fact, I would say that early in the dating process, it's necessary to have such a conversation. Not a "are you going to marry me" conversation, but a "is the purpose of you dating, in general, to find someone to marry, or simply to have fun and have someone to be with?". Otherwise, you may discover a year into the relationship that you're not on the same page.

I don't know of any relationships where marriage wasn't discussed at some point (and I'm talking about further in the relationship, not the initial conversation). Based on my friends' experiences, I would say it is the woman that gets the ball rolling. This could be due to an actual discussion or something more casual, like glancing in the window of a jewelry store with the boyfriend present.

Another thing- guys really really don't like rejection. They're probably not going to propose unless they are 100% sure of the answer. So if a girl has given no indication that she's ready to be married, he probably wouldn't ask.

 

[suchende]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

I'm fairly traditional as well, and I don't necessarily see anything nontraditional about the woman bringing up marriage. In fact, I would say that early in the dating process, it's necessary to have such a conversation. Not a "are you going to marry me" conversation, but a "is the purpose of you dating, in general, to find someone to marry, or simply to have fun and have someone to be with?" Otherwise, you may discover a year into the relationship that you're not on the same page.

I don't know of any relationships where marriage wasn't discussed at some point (and I'm talking about further in the relationship, not the initial conversation). Based on my friends' experiences, I would say it is the woman that gets the ball rolling. This could be due to an actual discussion or something more casual, like glancing in the window of a jewelry store with the boyfriend present.

Another thing- guys really really don't like rejection. They're probably not going to propose unless they are 100% sure of the answer. So if a girl has given no indication that she's ready to be married, he probably wouldn't ask.

I really agree with the bolded. I know a lot of girls who don't want to bring this up early because they're afraid to scare him off. Seems silly to me; I hope I do scare off guys who are just looking for a good time. I think some girls (a lot of my friends, honestly) seem to think that they're so special they'll turn a player into a marriage-track guy. Seems arrogant to me. I'd rather just date mature, family-oriented men from the beginning. Also, I'd rather us both be getting married because marriage/children/settling down are what we both want from our lives independently, not because one of us "won over" the other one.

 

[PrincessNatalie]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

I made it clear early in the relationship that I expected to be married one day and that I thought 2 years was plenty of time in a relationship to know if you wanted to marry someone (I said this at about 8 months in a conversation about a friends engagement at 5 years).

Upon moving in together at 1 year 3 months, we offhandedly agreed that moving in together should be a stepping stone to marriage, not at all a permanent or semi-permanent thing.

My H2B proposed on New Years in Koh Samui at 2 years 2 months, and he had been planning the proposal and had the ring for around 6 months.

I think the subject should definitely not be avoided

 

[chemgirl]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

I want to clear up my previous post. I do 100% think that a couple needs to discuss marriage, their expectations, and their goals. To me, that's entirely different than the demanding and "almost nagging" that the OP was talking about in her post. I think discussion is fantastic and necessary to make sure everyone is on the same page and nobody is left wondering if their partner plans on marrying them some day. That said, I don't think that demanding a proposal is fair (or a good idea). Nobody should feel forced in to proposing and I certainly hope it isn't the norm. If you have talked with your partner and they feel they're not ready to propose, you can wait or leave, your choice.

 

[jaysonsmom]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

The difference between my husband and previous boyfriends was that he brought up the question "where do you see us in 2 years?" and I knew he was a keeper. He didn't really ask when or if I wanted to get married...he just said that he could see us with a house in the suburbs, white picket fence and baby....well, knowing how traditional I was, he obviously meant marriage first. He proposed 5 months after dating.

With a previous relationship, I was at the point of nagging (4.5 years of indecisiveness) because the guy felt he wouldn't be a good dad, and he knew I wanted kids. So hinting, asking, nagging brought zero results. I don't think it's productive, and I learned my lesson. If a guy wants to get married, he'll ask. That's what my husband did!

 

[monarch64]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

HI:

My partner expressed it first, continued to mention it until I relented (I never really wanted to get married...). We got engaged without a ring, planned a wedding and got married within 8 months. I tried to get out of it a few times, but he held fast! For what it is worth, all my serious partners (I was engaged before my marriage) mentioned marriage first--I never brought it up.

cheers--Sharon

Ditto Sharon--my partner was HUGE on proposing, and then talking about everything! I've had the (gorgeous) ring for months and no wedding plans.

 

[Amber204]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

Personally I think it's not about who brings up marriage just so long as someone does if it's important to one or both persons.
It's something you should feel comfortable discussing and he should as well. Believe it or not at the beginning of my relationship with my now fiance I told him flat out that marriage was not necessary to me. He said he was ok with this. As the relationship evolved he actually stated that he's not ok with being common law and wanted the be formally married. After much open and honest discussion 14 months into our relationship we were engaged and will be married in June. I suppose the long and short of it however is that no it's not always a woman bringing up marriage.

 

[MayFlowers]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

BF is the one who first brought up marriage and our future. Luckily, we both wanted the same things for our future and the conversation just continued naturally from there. I don't think it's necessarily important *who* brings it up as long as it's brought up at some point. Personally, I wouldn't feel very comfortable saying yes to a proposal if I had never discussed the future and marriage with the guy. I don't know why, but it just wouldn't feel right to me. I guess part of it is the whole "team" aspect to a serious relationship. We discuss major choices together before making a final decision and this is just one of the many decisions we will have to make together.

 

[Circe]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

Nope. At least, not judging by my experiences. I had three serious relationships before the one where I got married: in each of those, the dude talked about marriage first.

(Results: one broken engagement; one exasperated outburst of, "Look, dude, stop making 'ironic' marriage jokes: I assure you if I want to wed, I'll just propose!" which apparently led to him feeling emasculated (sign: not the guy for me); one case of commitmentphobia that made it much harder to discuss the whole thing without feeling like I was committing just by having a discussion about marriage with the next dude; and one case of dating my best friend, who had heard all about the first two and watched the third, and wisely bided his time until I proposed (which took all of 3 months, and, whereupon he followed his affirmative with the statement that he'd just been trying to accommodate said commitmentphobia), resulting in happy marriage.)

I do sometimes wonder if having a board titled "Ladies in Waiting" leads to a little bit of self-selection and a little bit of reinscription of the dominant paradigm. Completely agree that people in relationships should discuss their expectations: I would just like to point out, though, that on a certain level, it doesn't really matter who raises the issue (aside from the level of personal desires, I mean: genderwise, it shouldn't matter). If you need to know, you need to know, right?

 

[inflorescence]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

Congrats on your proposal PrincessNatalie!!

 

[inflorescence]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

So my bf brought up marriage first... and continued to bring it up... and then after months of doing nothing I said something... now he has no intention of doing anything for awhile. I think its a good idea to discuss what you want... and your timeline early on so there is no surprises and to make sure you are on the same page so no one gets hurt....

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

My husband asked me if I would marry him, out of the blue, two months after we met. But they were a very special two months.

So... in my case. Nope, I didn't have to broach it. It wasn't even on my radar until he asked and I was like... yes, of course.

And then it only took him 9 years to get me to the actual altar... but that's a different story.

Everyone's relationships are different.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

In the two serious long-term relationships I have been in, marriage was brought up by the guy first.

In my first relationship, my exBF casually brought up "So when do you think you'd like to get married" and I brushed it off with "probably not until 20XX (several years away)." Ity seemed out of the blue at the time, but I later found out that one of his friends was thinking of proposing, so exBF decided to figure out a timeline for himself/our relationship. Ultimately the relationship ended before we were ready to take that step.

My FI lightheartedly said he wanted to marry me after we had been dating for a week, and then a few years later he started asking me about ring stuff.

I guess I seem to date commitment-minded guys!

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

I have been married twice, and each time, the guy mentioned getting married first. First time after dating only 2 weeks, the second, my now husband, said I was just the kind of girl he wanted to marry. I got lucky both times. If you haven't been dating long, I wouldn't bring it up. I believe when you are first dating someone, you should be enjoying the moment. Get to know them. What if you have the marriage talk and then decide you don't like the person. Most people talk randomly about their hopes for the future. Like saying, "when I get married, I want 2 kids and a ranch style house." Like you would with a good friend. Any guy you are dating should be a good friend too. Don't say, "When I marry YOU". Give your guy room to wonder why you DON'T include him in your future talk. Give him the option to jump in or stay neutral. If he doesn't want marriage, then he will say something like...."I would NEVER get married" or if he does, "I want 2 kids too. etc." Then you'll know without putting him on the spot.

Simply put...I say NO, a woman does not always have to broach the topic first.

 

[pancake]

Re: Must a woman broach the topic of marriage for her man to

No, I don't think so. When it comes to the "practical side" - ie the discussion about how to actually ACHIEVE marriage (lol), then I think that some men do tend to need a bit of a nudge to realise that action is required to get there.

My husband and I were 28 and 29 when we met. Both of us had had long-term relationships before and both of us had come out of 4 year relationships in the previous year. Neither of us was interested in pursuing a relationship unless there were long-term prospects and so we actually had the "future" discussion very early - in the first few months. That was to establish that both of us were after a serious, long-term relationship. Marriage came into the discussion probably after about 4 or 5 months? At that stage both of us were ambivalent about marriage as an institution but firmly believed in the life partner thing and that was on the table from then on.

In the end, marriage came up again and then happened very quickly - within the space of a few months. It was me who brought it up, as I fairly suddenly came to feel that I wanted to be married. We then got engaged and married within a 3 month period. Engagement was kind of non-essential, but we got a ring and then he wanted to propose (even though we were already planning the wedding!)