Mozambique ruby: Did I paid too much for it?

[vonatar]

I recently brought a mozambique ruby from a online vendor for USD$4500+ for my engagement ring. Its a 1.13 carat mozambique ruby which comes with a GRS certificate saying that it has "medium to strong fluorescence and is reminiscent in color saturation of unheated "GRS-type pigeon blood ruby".

I selected the ruby initially by sorting various photos of rubies from different vendors according to their visual appearance. And this particular ruby was near the top and within my budget. Initially, I was very happy with the price because it appeared comparable to other vendors, but I recently came across a thai vendor who told me that mozambique rubies should be priced at a helfy discount to burmese ones and show me some very similar mozambique rubies which he is selling for roughly USD$2000 per carat.... Now, I'm confused and wondering if I overpaid for mine?

I'm sending the ruby for a independent apprasial by a local gemologist here in Singapore. In the meanwhile, however, I wonder if any of the experts here can offer me their opinions?

Many Thanks!

 

[LD]

Welcome Vonatar

Your photos in the above post are not showing up - can you try again please? On the face of it, you've paid at the very top end of the price range (perhaps a little over that) BUT it does depend on the quality of the Ruby. Price is dependent on:-

1. Colour
2. Treatments
3. Clarity
4. Size

The GRS lab report is very misleading in saying that it is "reminiscent of an unheated pidgeon blood red" - what on earth does that mean? What a dreadful thing to have on a report! The gemstone is either unheated or not - it can't be reminiscent of an unheated gemstone. Their classification of colour is also something that I (and I know others) take issue with. Pigeon blood red means nothing and is a descriptor only. Does the report say whether the gemstone has been treated / heated please?

Before spending more money on this stone by sending it for an appraisal, please decide whether you want to keep it or not. Once you've posted the photos again and perhaps the report if you can also, we can give you an idea of whether the amount you've paid is fair or not. I suspect it's high but let's have a look.

HOWEVER at the end of the day, if you love the stone and you feel it's worth the money then kkeep it and love it.

 

[vonatar]

Hi LD, thanks for the reply. I fixed the photos. I hope that you can help me take a look!

 

[VapidLapid]

It appears that the report says the stone has no evidence of thermal treatment, unheated. The odd comment is about the color where they describe it as resembling the unheated blood of Burmese pigeons. I suspect they are suggesting the stone is red red and fluoresces. Still it is an odd way to say it.

eta:
Do you have photos other than the vendor photos? Really the color of the stone in the lab report is much better than in the enhanced vendor photos. Do you have calipers to accurately check the measurements of the stone? Did you research the vendor, and do they have a good reputation? If everything checks out and the stone really glows then you may have done very well actually.

 

[LD]

Vonatar - thank you for fixing the photos!

Ok, well first impression is that the Ruby has quite a lot of brown and doesn't look vivid red. However, the photo on the GRS report shows a much different colour (although it's difficult to see because it's so small). Can you take photos of it on the back of your hand please? Preferably in normal daylight and then indoors in the evening under normal household lights? Try to take them as realistic as possible that match what you see with your eyes - don't try to go for the glamour shot because if you do that we won't be able to give you honest opinions.

On the basis of the photos alone, I would (personally) not put that Ruby at the top end/high quality and so the gentleman who said $2k per carat was much nearer to the mark. The other problem I see with the stone is that it is poorly cut (very shallow and has a wonky culet) and because of the lack of depth has a window. This does detract from the value. If you aren't sure what I mean by a "window", hold the gemstone so that you are looking at it straight on and you'll see that the central area is lighter and you can see through the stone.

 

[chrono]

GRS descriptor aside, at least you know it is unheated. Interestingly, in spite of GRS calling it a vivid red, the vendor's pictures show an unsaturated brownish red corundum. Yes, pricing for an African ruby will be less than Burmese if of like quality, but African rubies are often untreated unlike Burmese rubies. Unfortunately, African rubies are also not as well coloured as Burmese rubies although there are rare exceptions. Let's put the origin consideration aside too for now to focus on the colour. How red is it is the key question. I'd follow LD's suggestion of viewing it under different lighting conditions to assess the colour as accurately as possible. There's no question though that the ruby is too shallow and thus windowed.

 

[vonatar]

Hey guys, thanks for the frank opinions... already starting to like the people on this forum... I believe the vendor to be fairly reputable based on his testimonials from his website and other forums. I believe that it willn't be unfair for the vendor if I reveal his identity before I get the ruby formally appraised.

I'll try to get those photos up as soon as I can tomorrow when I get my camera back... meanwhile, please keep those opinions coming

 

[VapidLapid]

I took the liberty to verify the report online. The report is good. Then the question does the stone match the report? I downloaded the GRS photo from their site and scaled it to match the vendor photo, then superimposed them. Very good match. So why does the color look so different in the vendor photos?

 

[LD]

Impressive work Vapid!

Vonatar - one thing I forgot to mention - an appraisal can be one of two things and you need to double check several things before going ahead with this:-

1. How qualified is the appraiser?
2. How many coloured gemstones has he/seen or does he/she specialise more in diamonds?
3. Will the appraisal be for actual genuine worth ie if you had to buy it today, what would the appraiser think you should pay (and I strongly suggest this is the type of appraisal you want and you should not disclose what you've paid beforehand).
OR
4. Will the appraisal be for insurance purposes? If it's for insurance purposes it will be inflated and that WON'T tell you whether you've paid a fair price or not.

Hope that helps.

 

[vonatar]

The pictures are indoor with indirect sunlight, with camera flash and outdoors with direct evening sunlight..

 

[chrono]

Of the 3 pictures, 2 have to be "thrown" out. Firstly, flash photography skews gem colours. Secondly, the glass cover of gem cases usually skews gem colours too. Do you mind redoing the last two pictures without flash and the case cover?

 

[vonatar]

LD, the gemologist whom i'm intend to do the appraisal with, used to be a ruby dealer before he became a gemologist and he has a number of research papers written on differentiating treated vs untreated rubies.. I'm asking him on his opinion of the market value of the ruby.. However, given the feedback here so far, i'm now seriously considering whether to go ahead with the appraisal or just seek a refund... Sigh

I really like this ruby, but the thing that bugs me is that i can potentially get a better ruby for my engagement ring with this budget.


Chrono. Understood your point about the photos. I will take a few better ohotos when i get a chance. E.g. When the gf is not around...

 

[kgizo]

Vonatar, you say you really like the ruby. But, you also wonder about getting something better for your budget. By that do you mean a larger ruby? I'm asking because if you are attached to this one is there a chance that you could negotiate the price down if the appraisal comes back that you overpaid? It seems reasonable to me to ask that of a vendor when you have evidence the pricing is off. But, if what you really want is the max size for your budget then I agree with others who have suggested saving the $$ on the appraisal and go ahead and return. Good luck to you.

Great detective work, VL. I am always so impressed with how PSers are able to check reports, use photo editing software, etc. to validate vendor claims.

 

[LD]

Vonatar, as Chrono says, you need to re-take the photos. Do you have a macro (flower shape) on your camera? If you do, go outside in the daylight, put the camera onto daylight and macro setting and then take the photo from about 6 inches away. If your skin looks the right colour in the photo, you know you've done it right. Look at your photos above and you can see how your skin looks an odd colour in both photos (in one you look blue!) and the other you look like you're seriously ill with jaundice!!!!

Good to know that you appraiser knows about Rubies BUT let's see the re-done photos first. One thing your photos above show is that your stone has a half/half extinction going on ie half the gem looks reddish, the other half is blacking out. You really don't want that with a ruby and you seriously don't want it with an expensive stone.

 

[vonatar]

Hmm... after looking at the ruby again today, I decided to return it back to the vendor... the final straw was what LD mentioned about the half-half extinction. It appears when viewed from too many angles... not exactly what i will want on a engagement ring

Thanks for your time guys. Learned quite a bit more about rubies...

 

[chrono]

I am sorry about the ruby not working out but know that you'll find a nicer one for your e-ring.

 

[LD]

I'm sorry too but I honestly think you've made the right decision based on your photos and the price point. Why don't you have a word with the other vendor who said he could get you something just as lovely for half the price? Before you commit, if you can, take some photos (or use the vendors IF they're true to life) and I'm sure we'll all try to help.

 

[minousbijoux]

One of the things members of this forum have become pretty good at - and this is a category that I find myself gaining some confidence in as well - is interpreting photos. Of course, there is no guarantee, but there are certain tips that have been learned and that we can offer in anyone's search (for example, skin tone should look like skin, not green, blue, red or washed out; tweezers should be the color of tweezers, not some other color; light should not be flooding on the stone but if it is, you can tell by the lack of shadow; etc.)

So I agree with LD - see what the new vendor has and get as many photos in different lighting situations/circumstances as you can, then come straight here and let us help!

I find that an excellent, high performing stone will look at least decent in just about every photo, but a good stone may look less than ideal in certain lighting conditions and that's what you want to know about. You may still end up purchasing the stone because you don't mind its lower performance in certain circumstances (like garnets that turn brownish in fluorescent light, or most stones that close up a bit in low light). That's where the fun begins and its up to you to decide what your particular preferences and dealbreakers are, and see if you can get the true character of the stone from the vendors photos. It sounds like a lot, I know, but some vendors are quite accomodating

Good luck - can't wait until you come back with more options.