Moving to NorCal?

[rubyshoes]

So... DH and I have lived on Chicago's North Shore for 12 years now... and we love it here but our dream was always to move to California. We never cared where, as both of us like the Bay Area as well as the LA area. Neither has been to San Diego. We always said "we'll move when we can afford to have a decent lifestyle there". Well, now we are thinking in earnest as DH is due for a promotion (or can easily look for a vertical position at a different company here). If he looked for a vertical position in the CA area, we'd be able to afford a nice house in an affluent area there.

We've been doing research and the math is adding up... I looked at taxation and CA has 9% income tax where we have 5% in IL. The property taxes in the nice areas for pricier homes there are believe it or not LESS than the property taxes we are currently paying (which is not unusual for crazy Lake County). Job opportunities are equal to the Chicago area (for his field) and although we've never lived in CA, DH has a huge network there (college friends + ex co-workers + family). The CA economy seems terrible but IL's is not exactly awesome either. Politically we are extremely liberal on social issues but fiscally conservative. AFAIK there is no city that caters to people with this combo so we vote Dem.

I guess I'm just nervous because we love where we live so much. We are friends with all our neighbors, we have a great house in a great area, we go to the city a lot for entertainment/restaurants and we have 1 car because public transport here is amazing.

So why move? Well, we like the weather there, we're outdoorsy and we love long walks and hikes with our dog so we'd really enjoy the outdoor options in CA, I am an avid rosarian who can garden for a much longer period of time there... and we also have lots of friends there. And after 12 years in the Midwest, we're ready for a change, something different. Psychologically, there's a feeling of ennui.

I am nervous though, because we're in our comfort zone here and change can be scary! But we also feel if we don't take the plunge soon we'll be here for at least 5 years or so... Also, we've heard a lot of negative things about CA culture from people who've lived there. I don't mean any disrespect to Californians responding to this thread. But I keep hearing things like "Oh. They're so selfish, flaky, they have 0 neighborhood/community spirit. They don't even say Hello." Obviously I take these things with a pinch of salt, but having lived in the Midwest and the South (Georgia), I don't know how I'd feel about moving from super-friendly parts of the country to what *sounds* like not-friendly.

We are on the fence regarding if we'll have kids/when we'll have kids. But when purchasing a home in CA, we will make sure we buy in an area with good public schools. (I've gotten an idea of those areas from friends, and yes, we would be able to afford a home there.)

Basically we are not in a rush. We don't want to make a hasty decision, and we will NOT move unless a suitable opportunity comes up for DH. If it doesn't, he'll wait for his promotion here or look at other jobs in the Chicagoland area. But we want to be sure before he contacts a recruiter or taps into his network.

I'd just like to get your perspective... would especially be helpful to hear from people who live in CA or IL or have lived in both states.

Thanks very much and apologies to any CA people who felt offended by the -ve quotes I typed!

 

[rubyshoes]

Good God. I just typed up a novel.

 

[minousbijoux]

Rubyshoes, I live in the Bay Area. It is a beautiful, healthy place to live with unrivaled scenery. It is culturally rich and diverse. Innovative thinking an open mindedness are what I find refreshing about living here. I could go on and on.

That said, I am trying to leave. I have lived here for 27 years and have watched as the State has slowly (and recently not so slowly) slid downhill. The State continues to fight budget deficits and has made significant cuts to services as a result. I don't think we've seen the end of it by any means. Public education has suffered across the board, even in wealthier districts. This is because astute parents living in poorer areas often either move and rent in wealthier areas just so their kids can go to school there, or they seek transfers from the school district in which they live to the better school district. I have seen it happen over and over in communities where someone will buy a home in an area with high performing schools and then find out that this is not the school their child will be assigned to, as many school districts now randomly assign to keep people from "buying their way in". If you are serious, please research the policies of the individual school districts in the communities you are interested in.

Also, the jobs/housing balance is out of whack for many Bay Area communities so that often people live far from where they work. Please be aware that traffic congestion is very bad on most major highways so if you did move here, you'd want to make sure you live very close to your jobs - if you or your husband will work in Silicon Valley, then don't try and commute, but choose a city in close proximity. Same with SF and other major job centers. IMO, this is the biggest downside (that and crime) to living here. You can no longer realistically expect to live more than about 15 miles from your job without typically facing a hellacious commute.

I guess if I were to seriously consider staying, I would be looking to move north of SF to Sonoma County. There seem to be more and more employers there, great quality of life and a lot of people fleeing the Bay Area problems and moving there so the people I know who live there are all open minded, interesting, and fun. HTH and isn't too depressing.

 

[tammy77]

My husband and I lived in Sacramento for several years and have to say, I'd never ever recommend living there to anyone I liked. We've moved to a suburb in the East Bay and we LOVE it here. If you do decide to move, doing your homework on different towns/cities is really a must. There's a huge difference in community, schools, etc. just 10 miles away. In our particular city, the schools are ALL rated 9 or 10 on the Great Schools website. We refused to move to any city with low scoring schools for the reasons the pp mentioned. That said, I work in Berkeley and I loathe the city. Hope that doesn't offend anyone! It's just a dirty, weird city.

The weather here in the area is fantastic though, it's totally converted my snow loving DH to a California guy.

 

[rubyshoes]

Thank you for the responses! Very helpful!

minousbijoux, I had heard about the traffic there (although more about LA traffic than Bay Area) and I will mention this point to DH. Also, I was researching homes on trulia and noticed some suburban listings mentioning easy access to BART. I did read about the school lottery system and wow, I don't even want to imagine the uproar that would cause if someone suggested it here! OMG, people would be pissed.

tammy77, Sacramento isn't on our list at all, hehe. You mentioned the schools in your town are great. Does your town have the lottery system as well or has that been proposed at any point? The towns we have been looking at are Los Gatos (sounds totally like our kind of place!) and the LAMORINDA areas. Most listings in the Los Altos and PA area are too $$$. Haven't done any research on parts of the LA area, mostly because the possibility of DH finding a job there is low.

 

[qtiekiki]

Commute in Bay Area is much better than LA. I grew up in the East Bay, and now live in the greater LA. I prefer the culture in the Bay Area more. People are friendlier there. I went college in Berkeley, and agree that "downtown" and around the college is dirty. But the houses on the hill are very nice. Although I don't think the public schools are very good. Have you look at Saratoga? My college friend grew up here. They have good schools.

 

[amc80]

I grew up in the Central Valley, was in Santa Barbara for school, then moved to the Bay Area, then San Diego. I lived in Walnut Creek when in the Bay. It's a really nice area. WC is particularly nice with an awesome little downtown area...cute restaurants, fun bars, good shopping. Moraga/Laf/Orinda are very nice as well and definitely have more of a small town feel. I agree with what others have said about traffic. Not fun. Public transportation is there but (BART) but what you're used to in Chicago. And it's pretty expensive. I used to work in Emeryville and found it easier to drive than take BART. I still have a lot of friends in the area and they all love it there.

Having said all that, I moved out of the state 5 years ago and I'd never move back. I don't see the state as being in a good place from a fiscal perspective, plus the politics drive me insane (but I'm conservative, so it probably wouldn't be an issue for you).

If you really want to move there, I'd see where the job opportunities are first, then narrow down where you want to live accordingly. The wrong commute will mean hours on the road every day.

 

[FrekeChild]

We just moved to a smaller city in the Central Valley in September from New Mexico, and I am dying to move!

CA has a lot of great things going for it - nice weather, lots of outdoor activities, lots of theme parks and stuff to do for entertainment, etc. But there are some not so great things about it too, and I'm particularly "homesick" right now, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt!

I'm tired of:
-being in a car all of the time
-pollution/terrible air quality
-high gas prices
-no snow
-no cold
-summer gets really hot here
-bugs
-snobby people
-hearing how awful the Central Valley is
-high taxes
-expensive travel (there are no direct flights from here to anywhere)

I really like:
-Panera (lol)
-lots of PSers are in LA, SD and SF
-cheap produce
-being so close to major metropolitan areas
-having so many entertainment choices

As I said, I can't wait to move, but there are good things about living here too. I don't want to be here long term though. I really really really really REALLY miss snow and the cold. 50 degree winters are NOT my thing.

 

[asscher_girl]

We moved to the Bay Area 6 years ago from Atlanta. We really love it here. We bought a house about 4 years after moving here (in San Jose), while CA is expensive, for the industries my husband and I are in, we make a considerable amount more here than we would in many other areas so we don't mind the expense. There's so much to do here, the weather is pretty great (I would actually prefer even warmer winters, I hate the cold) but it's very mild. That being said, we plan on living here for another 8 - 10 yrs and then we're hoping to semi-retire young and head to the Caribbean. That's our goal. However, we have talked about spending our times shared between here and the Caribbean because we really do enjoy this area and we have so many connections should we choose to consult, etc.

Good luck with your decision, let us know if you have more questions about specific areas.

 

[rubyshoes]

Thanks for all the replies!

qtiekiki: I looked at Saratoga based on your reco. It seems lovely!

amc80: Yes, I hear you on the state's future (fiscal)... that does give us pause. Also hear you on commutes.

FrekeChild: That's funny, I actually enjoy Chicago winters (I just wish they were a little shorter, that's all) but I can definitely get used to 50* winters! LOL.

Asscher girl: I went to school in Atlanta (lived in Midtown). Your Caribe plan sounds awesome. Hubby and I would move to Barbados in a heartbeat except we have no idea what we'd do there without jobs, hehe.

I have been doing research on city-data and I also stumbled across a blog called burbed.com OMG I don't know if I should take their posts seriously or with a grain of salt, but they clearly seem to think there's a bubble right now in CA and there's a lot of talk of all-cash offers for homes, with people who need mortgages getting completely outbid and priced out! And we're talking about million $$$ homes here. What the what?! Do you guys feel like this is going on?

 

[amc80]

I have been doing research on city-data and I also stumbled across a blog called burbed.com OMG I don't know if I should take their posts seriously or with a grain of salt, but they clearly seem to think there's a bubble right now in CA and there's a lot of talk of all-cash offers for homes, with people who need mortgages getting completely outbid and priced out! And we're talking about million $$$ homes here. What the what?! Do you guys feel like this is going on?

I can't say for CA, but that is definitely happening here in NV. A coworker is trying to buy a house. He put in an offer about 10% over asking price...there were 26 other offers, many of which were cash. The market is insane right now. And it happened FAST.

We just moved to a smaller city in the Central Valley in September from New Mexico, and I am dying to move!

Where abouts? Only asking because I grew up in a small town in the central valley (Escalon, near Modesto).

 

[rubyshoes]

I can't say for CA, but that is definitely happening here in NV. A coworker is trying to buy a house. He put in an offer about 10% over asking price...there were 26 other offers, many of which were cash. The market is insane right now. And it happened FAST.

Ok, that is bonkers. If it is a similar situation in Bay Area, we will have to say goodbye to our idea and stay put!

 

[Clairitek]

My husband and I relocated to the Bay Area for my job in October of 2010. We live in Walnut Creek (ok, well I live in SLC right now but DH is still there and I'm going back in October) and I second the other suburb recommendations that AMC made (Lafayette and Orinda) and I'd also like to add Pleasanton to the list. I don't feel that people here are unfriendly and not into community. Our neighborhood clan is wonderful.

Tammy already mentioned the weather. It's fantastic. I love being able to be outdoors at all times during the year.

My mother once called the Bay Area "Disneyland for adults." I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. We are never bored there. Ever. Food, wine, culture events, concerts, sporting events, outdoor sports. It's everywhere. On top of that, easy access to places like Seattle, Portland, LA, Vegas, and San Diego. They are all within a fairly inexpensive 2 hr flight.

Housing IS pricey but beyond that I can imagine the cost of groceries, medical care, gas, and other similar items is not too different from your current location.

 

[Gypsy]

So I didn’t read anyone else’s comments so as not to influence me. I grew up in the Bay Area, before the huge real estate boom, and left Nor Cal when I was 20 to move to the East Coast, first to the DC metro then to NJ. When I was 30 my husband and I moved back to Nor Cal. And honestly, if it were up to me we would move away again.

Why? Well; let me list what I consider the pros and cons of living here.

PROS
1. Lots of diversity. It’s really hard to be racist (not that some don’t succeed) out here you meet so many people from different culture and you get exposed to so many different traditions, cultures, foods, languages--- IF YOU ARE OPEN TO THAT. And I love that about CA. Or maybe people hide their racism better. I don’t know. But I do know that having lived in the NY metro area (NJ) and the DC area—both of which are very diverse I see MORE intercultural exchanges and acceptance out here than even those areas.
2. Great weather. Enough said. If two seasons are your thing (One hot, one wet) this is the place for you. I personally like 4 seasons as long as the winter isn’t too bad (DC).
3. Lots of outdoors stuff to do.
4. Compared to the rest of country the job market out here is pretty damned good.
5. People don’t get up in your business. Everyone is live and let live for the most part. You want a sex change? Want to start wearing speedos outside your pants or on top of your head—AND be taken serious… there is a community out here that will not only support your decision but love you for it. You live in the right areas around here, you’ll get used to a billionaire looking like a homeless person and your housekeeper carrying that lovely handbag you couldn’t afford last month, you will even get used to doing nothing more than absently note when someone walks by you in February in nothing but a flight suit and fairy wings.

CONS

1. Extremely high cost of living. Now you may look at property taxes and housing costs, but that’s just part of it. EVERYTHING here is more expensive. And much more expensive than Illinois. Everything from milk, to meat, to gas to medical services to heating/cooling your home… you name it. Total cost of ownership, as I put it, here is higher than ANYWHERE in the nation. How do I know this? Well aside from anecdotal experience and Google: both DH and I work for national companies with offices in multiple states, including other high cost of living metro areas including NY (Manhattan), DC, Chicago, Boston… and for both of our companies (and my previous company which was a National consulting company) the Bay Area cost of living/salary adjustments are higher than ANYWHERE ELSE INCLUDING MANHATTAN. My husband's company has this area rated at +25% and mine has it at about the same. That means you get 25% more salary than average parts of the country and IL is average and even Chicago, last time I checked (I was looking at jobs there last year) is only about +10. It's really not just housing... it really is EVERYTHING. You have to live here for a while to really understand it. You pay for EVERYTHING out here—even 10 cents a bag in some counties for paper bags for your groceries (yes you can use the cloth bags, but you can’t remember them ALL THE TIME, at some time you are going to need to buy a bag), and you just keep paying. Right now our property costs are depressed, and much more reasonable, so if you want to live out here and buy a home this is a good time. But they are on the rise already and soon enough the prices are going to be out of control again, it is inevitable and if you want to get a larger house when you have kids or what not you WILL be hit with sticker shock. BOTH our companies rate
2. “They have 0 neighborhood/community spirit. They don't even say Hello.” Very true. Out here there are very few “neighborhoods” in the same sense as you get back east or in the south. Most people are transplants here, and are in flux… they are always looking for the next job, the next house upgrade… the next best thing. It is very rare to get an established neighborhood with neighbors that you know, say hi to, and KEEP. So, after a the 4th couple and come and gone and moved away…. You stop saying hi. Everything is transient and temporary out here and very few people put down roots. Now there are exception in some areas like the Berkeley Hills, parts of Marin, and some neighborhoods on the Peninsula like the Aragon section of San Mateo, and places like Menlo. Just to give you an example: I was looking at a listing of a 3 million dollar GORGEOUS home in Palo Alto (no particular reason except to dream) and the listing said, I kid you not, “Wonderful starter home in Palo Alto”. Very few people out here seem to be content… everyone is striving and killing themselves to keep up with the joneses. It’s kind of sad. And unfortunately it seem to be infectious.
3. Traffic/Commute time. It’s amazing how much this can affect your quality of life. Unless you are really lucky and can find a nice house near your job prepare for at least ONE of you having a 45 minute or longer commute. Some of the nicest areas out here rejected bart, and have traffic snarls that can rival even the LA metro area. And some of the best jobs are in those areas. Every couple I know that has both people working—ONE of the partners has a long commute. And that is a BIG expense. Not only in time—but in gas, wear and tear on your car, in tolls, and it gets VERY wearying.

For me the Cons FAR outweigh the PROS of living here. But… to each their own.

 

[rubyshoes]

My mother once called the Bay Area "Disneyland for adults."

And that is precisely why we want to move there! Your post was very heartening, glad to hear you like it so much.

 

[rubyshoes]

Gypsy: You've given me a lot of food for thought! Thanks so much for the in-depth response! I do keep hearing that it's more expensive there but I only thought to look at house prices and taxation. I did not think of regular everyday expenses being pricier.

The thing you said about transience was very interesting. It makes sense that after the nth neighbor moving out, one would stop caring. Out here, many of my neighbors have lived in their homes for 10-20 years (DH and I have had our home for 12 years) and my immediate neighbor has lived in his house 45 years! So it is interesting to me that people don't stay there in localities 'for keeps'. But even with all the numerous drawbacks, Cali is still so alluring. And the BEAUTY, wow.

I don't know, all this stuff is kinda hard to figure out Sometimes I think "Why rock the boat?", other times I don't want to regret never having tried it, you know?

 

[amc80]

To add on to the cost of living discussion- I'm always shocked when I visit the Bay Area just how expensive everything is. Food is the big one. We went out for breakfast at a local neighborhood place and it was about $40. For breakfast! My friends were visiting us here in NV and had to go to the grocery store. They were amazed at how low the prices were.

 

[LAJennifer]

Gypsy: You've given me a lot of food for thought! Thanks so much for the in-depth response! I do keep hearing that it's more expensive there but I only thought to look at house prices and taxation. I did not think of regular everyday expenses being pricier.

The thing you said about transience was very interesting. It makes sense that after the nth neighbor moving out, one would stop caring. Out here, many of my neighbors have lived in their homes for 10-20 years (DH and I have had our home for 12 years) and my immediate neighbor has lived in his house 45 years! So it is interesting to me that people don't stay there in localities 'for keeps'. But even with all the numerous drawbacks, Cali is still so alluring. And the BEAUTY, wow.

I don't know, all this stuff is kinda hard to figure out Sometimes I think "Why rock the boat?", other times I don't want to regret never having tried it, you know?

I lived in Los Angeles for 12 years before moving to Chicagoland in 2011. My husband took a job transfer and we moved from West Hollywood to Winnetka before buying our current house in Park Ridge. DH lived in San Francisco for about 2 years prior to his move to LA. Before that, he lived in Palo Alto for a few years. EVERYTHING is more expensive in California. Our car insurance was cut in half. Eating out costs about a third of what we would typically pay in LA. Our local movie theater is $5. We were paying $14 - $16 in LA.

I did NOT want to move - I loved LA! It took me a couple of months to adjust to life in the Midwest. I was unnerved and defensive every time a stranger said "Hello" or an employee offered assistance at the grocery store. It took a while for me to learn that these people didn't "want something from me" or "weren't trying to sell me something." I never knew that life could be so easy and convenient. Here, I can run more errands in 2 hours than I could in an entire, exhausting weekend in LA. I had no idea what a hassle that was until I moved here. Aside from a few friends, there are only 3 things I truly miss: 1) cheap Thai massage 2) Umamiburger 3) some feral cats that I used to feed (someone else is now looking after them).

I know nothing about the suburbs of the Bay Area, but I visited SFO often. Public transportation is pretty good, but not quite as easy to navigate as Metra or CTA - and parking is scarce.

If you are looking at real estate listings on Trulia, etc., understand that they are undervalued and then get "bid up" by prospective buyers (even fixer uppers). Just keep that in mind.

Gypsy's assessment is spot-on. The cons outweigh the positives, in the long term. Short term can be a lot of fun, though. I mean, nowhere else will you find an event as colorful as the Folsom Street Fair.

 

[LAJennifer]

Prepare to spend a LOT of time in your car. That was, ultimately, the reason for our move - DH just couldn't take it anymore.

 

[asscher_girl]

Hey Ruby! Small world I lived in Buckhead when I was in college, grew up in the burbs outside the city. Thanks, we are working hard to make our dream come true, I've always wanted to move to the islands full time (I lived in the USVI's for a bit after college) and luckily my hubby is totally up for it

Yeah the Bay Area is pricey, no lie there. A nice 3 bedroom house in San Jose (with minimal fixing up) is going to run $700K+ (and that's with a 6K to 8K sq ft lot) - don't even think about acres lol, in Los Gatos/ Saratoga, that would look more like $1.5 M and up. For us, it was worth investing out here and we are very glad we did. We got in just when real estate was picking back up (we wanted to make sure it hit bottom before we pulled the trigger). The economy is really good out here too (in the Bay Area that is), I'm in the commercial interiors world and it's been insanely busy the last 2 years. Usually that's the first thing to be cut from budgets (upgrading interiors, moving offices, etc) and the last to come back but it's in full swing. However, I was just talking to an old client of mine (CEO of a tech firm) who left the area and is living in San Diego. He said the economy is still not back there, he's actually looking to come back to the Bay to get another C-suite job. I think the Bay Area is always in a bubble and one that pops every so often but it's a crazy ride with lots to see and do.

In terms of friendliness out here, I tend to keep to myself in the grocery line for example (don't get me wrong, I'm a talker, lol, but just not interested in gabbing it up with strangers) and I would say people are nice but not overly kind/talk to strangers kind of thing. Funny story, we had lived here for 3 years before I finally made a trip back to Atlanta (after 20 years in ATL, I wasn't in a rush to go back, lol!). Well I'm at the ATL airport in the tram and a stranger just starts up a conversation with me. I was taken back at first, I know that sounds terrible but it seemed so weird. And it kept happening through my whole trip. Everyone always talked about Southern Charm and all of my years living there I didn't really get it, until now when I go back.

Good luck with your research! Let us know if you have any more questions

 

[asscher_girl]

oh I forgot one thing - commuting - you don't always have to commute. We live less than 3 miles from my office. I hate traffic/commuting and will not do it. Well I take that back, I did it for 1 year living out here, we lived mid-peninsula and I drove to San Jose every day. Worst year of my life, I hate traffic and took 101 every.single.day. yuck. So after that I swore it would never happened again. We then moved to an apartment 2 blocks from my office. It only takes me 8-10 minutes to get to work now (still seems like a lot for only 3 miles on back roads) but much better than sitting in freeway traffic. My hubby has no choice, he covers the whole bay area and drives all day every day. So just remember that you can figure out a way to work and live nearby and not have to deal with traffic.

 

[Clairitek]

Check out bestplaces.net to compare COL indices for all different aspects of paying to live somewhere. I compared Walnut Creek to Lake Forest and was surprised to see that Lake Forest is actually more expensive. Not sure where in Lake County you live so I picked that town.

As for the traffic, IMO it is avoidable to some degree if you choose where you live wisely. When I was living in Walnut Creek and commuting to Dublin I spent 30 mins or less driving the 17 miles to my destination on MOST days. Some days it was more if there was an accident. DH drives 40 miles north towards Sacramento and spends 45 mins in the car (it's a reverse commute). But we also live on a BART line and that can make life significantly easier.

That said, I do hear terrible things about commuting to Silicon Valley. 680 South (goes through the East Bay) is a parking lot on weekday mornings and weeknight afternoons. Asscher Girl was doing the commute down there from the other side on the 101 and I can imagine it was insanely nasty.

 

[Gypsy]

To add on to the cost of living discussion- I'm always shocked when I visit the Bay Area just how expensive everything is. Food is the big one. We went out for breakfast at a local neighborhood place and it was about $40. For breakfast! My friends were visiting us here in NV and had to go to the grocery store. They were amazed at how low the prices were.

Totally. We went out for breakfast to the Original Pancake House here with my MIL. 60 bucks for breakfast. Tonight we went out for pizza: salad for three and one extra large deluxe: 70 bucks (DH likes leftovbers).

My MIL had a heart attack at Trader Joe's the other day. $0.14 for a SINGLE banana. Out where she lives in NJ (not a cheap area the Verizon CEO has house there) she pays $0.30 for a POUND of bananas. And Trader Joes is considered affordable.

Entertainment is RIDICULOUS. Movies and concessions are just insane. The theaters break even on just the price of ticket because of the high costs of rent and property and labor, so their profits pretty much come only from concessions. Any other activity you want to do that requires going into a building costs a ton. In DC the museums are free. Look up the price of admission at the MOMA here in SF. Or even more shocking: Look at how much tickets for one day at the Monteray Bay Aquarium will cost you. Fortunately Farmer's Markets are usually free and are lots of fun and so are SOME (but definitely not all) outdoor festivals and fairs.

We pay recycle fees on all plastic and glass bottles at the grocery stores. So we pay extra PER BOTTLE on a six pack of beer. And then the garbage trucks that take a away your trash get to recoup that unless you think going to the dump personally is fun. Here's a wiki on that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Redemption_Value

We, and I swear to you I am not making this up, pay 300 per year PER CAR for our vehicle registration fees. In NJ we paid 300 for THREE YEARS of registration. A speeding ticket could actually make you unable to make your rent. And the cops out here are SUPER ticket happy.

Every little thing costs more.

And both as both Clairetek and Asscher_girl demonstrated: while both of them had good commutes both their husbands spend a lot of time commuting (and I realize AG that your husband's job involves traveling as part of his job, but still... the traffic makes every distance a pain). The commute will kill you out here.

 

[rubyshoes]

LaJennifer, small world We visit Winnetka all the time because our friends live there, also Restaurant Michael! It's really helpful to get your perspective because you've lived in both parts of the country. Wow, I am really shocked at the number of people talking about the traffic. I'm trying to understand how exactly it's so bad... although who cares what the reasons are. If it's bad, it's bad. And yeah, I kinda hate long drives... we basically hang out in nearby areas and take the Metra to the city... the farthest we go by car is to Ikea and even that back-n-forth exhausts us. Also an unpleasant surprise to hear about trulia listings getting bid up. Heehee, if you and I had crossed paths when you first moved here, you'd have probably thought me creepy. I talk TO EVERYONE! Like, all the time! All the Metra conductors know me.

Asscher_girl, Buckhead, yeah!!! Yes, every time DH does a quick search on job websites to get a sense of what's out there, he finds a lot of listings in the Bay Area (not so much in LA area) so we are not worried about the finding a job part actually... The people being not very friendly part... I can live with that. I'm a total gabber and if you don't gab here, well, you're considered rude or snotty. But it's not such a big deal ultimately. The biggest issue is cost of living and housing. I like that you like the Bay Area so much. It gives me hope!

Clairitek, thanks for the website link. BEST website ever, loved the compare cities feature. I don't live in Lk Forest, but I entered searches for my town vs various towns. We are just a bit lower than Walnut Creek but the gap is higher when compared with LG, Lafayette and Saratoga. Our town spends double on schools! Finding the perfect house (right price, right commute) is such a matter of luck though.

You guys are awesome! I'm going to send this link to DH and he'll have to admit PS is good for something other than draining his wallet

 

[rubyshoes]

Gypsy, those restaurant/grocery costs are crazy! We had dinner with 3 other couples this weekend. Nice place in the city (not posh). 2 apps to share, 6 entrees, 1 celebration cake, 1 bottle of wine to share, 3 cocktails/beers. Total was 100 per couple with tip. I am feeling sticker shock when I read about 70 bucks for pizza and salads. We pay $18 per ticket for Art Institute so that's same as MOMA. But the food costs are shocking. Isn't CA an agricultural state?

 

[Gypsy]

Walnut Creek versus Satatoga.

You need to understand Bay Area geography. The East Bay is considered affordable. So is the east side of the South Bay but the west side (west of 101) is EXPENSIVE as all hell. The Peninsula and North Bay are just WOW expensive (look up the Menlo Atherton area), and most of the jobs are in the South Bay, the city of San Francisco with a smattering of companies in the east bay, the north bay and on the peninsula.

Walnut Creek is a nice area. But it is in the East Bay and while really nice is not considered "exclusive" or even particularly luxurious. It has a Bart, and a great shopping center. But jobs near there are few and far between. And Bart pretty much ONLY goes to San Francisco, when it comes to areas where a lot of jobs area.

Saratoga is one of the exclusive areas. No public transport. Very expensive area of south bay (west side). There jobs in the South Bay and plenty of them. But most of them will STILL be a 45 minutes commute from Saratoga in traffic. If the job is in San Francisco you do NOT want to live in Saratoga.

If you want an area that is central about everywhere try San Mateo (Aragon Area) or Burlingame or HIllsborough. They are pretty much 40 minutes or less away from both San Fran, and the east bay. It's a very central location. And Hillsborough and parts of the other two are near 280 instead of 101 which makes commuting much easier. Plus the Bart is only 15 or so minutes away in Millbrae. The only areas that are far from there (that you might want to visit) are the North Bay (no real jobs except Autodesk, Firemen's Fund and Lucas Valley, and Lucas is planning on bankrupting the area in revenge), and Berkeley. And you can do day trips to there if you want to go visit.

San Mateo/Hillsborough area is also close to Woodside and Half Moon Bay and La Honda and those areas are great for the outdoor activities. Hillsborough in particular is quite nice with large lots and more settled 'neighborhoods' and lots of privacy. It's also exclusive while less expensive than Menlo and other neighborhoods with similar 'feels.'

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy, those restaurant/grocery costs are crazy! We had dinner with 3 other couples this weekend. Nice place in the city (not posh). 2 apps to share, 6 entrees, 1 celebration cake, 1 bottle of wine to share, 3 cocktails/beers. Total was 100 per couple with tip. I am feeling sticker shock when I read about 70 bucks for pizza and salads. We pay $18 per ticket for Art Institute so that's same as MOMA. But the food costs are shocking. Isn't CA an agricultural state?

CA is a high cost of living state. It's also a VERY large state. Land in any of the areas with great jobs is ridiculous so yes, we have farms but most are in the central valley. What does that mean? Shipping. Which means GAS and commuting which equals $$$$ added to the price of that produce. You can get GREAT grocery prices in the centra valley. You just won't find any jobs out there.

We do have lovely farmer's markets though and in terms of produce in the summer you can get some nice deals. But you have to understand that a lot of it is organic and 'small farm' produced so it's not CHEAP frequently, just more affordable than the grocery store (and 1000 times better tasting). But milk, eggs, bread, meat... all of it is expensive.

Tickets to the aquarium are 35 a person: http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/vi/tickets.aspx?c=tn

 

[rubyshoes]

Gypsy, thanks for all the advice. I am learning a lot from this thread! Lots to digest... it's going to be a tough decision for sure and I'm leaning towards staying put. We will see what the husband says.

 

[EricaR]

I grew up in the Bay Area and now live in Southern California. I miss living up north, but I know I could never get my husband to leave SoCal.

I totally agree with whoever it was that said people in the Bay Area are friendlier. The pace of live is very very different between north and south, too. I miss the more relaxed, kick back attitude I ran into up North. Moving down here was a bit of culture shock. Everything seems so frantic here. Everyone is in a hurry to get somewhere/ do something immediately that I think they miss out on life.

 

[qtiekiki]

I grew up in the Bay Area and now live in Southern California. I miss living up north, but I know I could never get my husband to leave SoCal.

I totally agree with whoever it was that said people in the Bay Area are friendlier. The pace of live is very very different between north and south, too. I miss the more relaxed, kick back attitude I ran into up North. Moving down here was a bit of culture shock. Everything seems so frantic here. Everyone is in a hurry to get somewhere/ do something immediately that I think they miss out on life.

My husband is ok with NorCal for summer, but yeah it's not like it's a cheap place to own a summer house. I, too, miss living up north. I think people mingle more in the north. SoCal seems more cliquey to me.