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Move Over, San Francisco!

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AGBF

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OK, now New York is in the act! From, "The New York Times":

February 27, 2004
Gay Marriage Debate Shifts to Small New York Township
By THOMAS CRAMPTON and CHRISTINE HAUSER

NEW PALTZ, N.Y., Feb 27 — After making headlines in San Francisco and Massachusetts, the national debate over gay marriage shifted today to the Hudson Valley community of New Paltz, where the mayor performed wedding ceremonies for at least 20 same-sex couples.

"I just want to be equal," said Billiam van Roestenberg, 39, who spoke to CNN after he and his partner, Jeffrey S. McGowan , exchanged vows.

This afternoon, the State Health Department called on Attorney General Eliot Spitzer to seek an injunction to "prevent further illegal conduct" by the mayor, according to a statement issued by the department, whose commissioner, Antonia C. Novello, is appointed by Gov. George E. Pataki. The department also called on Mr. Spitzer to declare the ceremonies that had been performed "null and void."

Mr. Spitzer''s office had no immediate comment.

Another couple who exchanged vows here today, Barry Nevins and his partner, who asked that his name not be published, said they had been together for more than four years, and had even exchanged rings and vows on a Caribbean cruise trip.

But today, angered by President Bush''s call this week for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriages, they went to New Paltz to take their relationship one step further.

The mayor, Jason West, performed the ceremonies for same-sex couples, saying that it was a matter of equal rights. The 26-year old mayor, elected last year on the Green Party ticket, expressed no concern about any potential legal sanctions against him. "I will be performing these solemnizations for the foreseeable future," he said.

Governor Pataki was weighing whether he should or even could issue an executive order to halt the proceedings, according to two state officials outside the administration. In a brief discussion with reporters early in the day, Mr. Pataki said that New York State law was clear and that no new law was needed.

"This law states that a marriage is between a man and a woman," Mr. Pataki said, according to a transcript provided by his office. "Our attorneys are talking with the Health Department and with the attorney general''s office to see what steps they may determine are appropriate."

Aides to Attorney General Spitzer, queried before the Health Department''s request for an injunction, said that he too was trying to figure out what the state''s legal position should be on Mr. West''s actions today.

As in other parts of the United States, the event highlighted divisions of opinion. Couples lined up outside of the Village Hall, some carrying flowers, while a few people carried signs of protest, including one that said, "Gay marriage not morally right."

An official in the town clerk''s office said that marriage licenses could not be given out to same-sex couples, and therefore the legal basis for the marriages performed today was in question.

The Village of New Paltz''s Web site called the ceremonies "gender-neutral" marriages. And Joshua Rosenkranz, a lawyer for the mayor, contended that under New York State domestic law, a marriage is valid once it is solemnized by an official or judge.

Mr. Nevins, a 42-year-old hospital administrator, said that he had no idea whether his marriage to his partner would be legally recognized any more than their Caribbean marriage ceremony three years ago.

But as with many of the gay couples trying to get marriage licenses, that is not the whole point.

"It is a statement to say that no one has the right to tell me who I can marry," Mr. Nevins said in a telephone interview from the town clerk''s office in New Paltz, where he was unable to get a license but was given directions to the mayor''s office.

On Tuesday, President Bush, citing San Francisco''s decision to issue marriage licenses to gay couples despite state laws that appear to be to the contrary, said that the union of a man and woman is the most enduring human institution. He said he supported an amendment that would counteract "activist judges" who have issued rulings in favor of gay marriage.

More than 3,300 same-sex couples have gotten married in San Francisco since Feb. 12, after the mayor urged municipal officials to issue licenses to same-sex couples, and California courts are now considering legal challenges both to the marriages and to the laws that forbid them.

The comedian and talk show host Rosie O''Donnell, who has become a prominent advocate for gay rights since she announced she was a lesbian in 2002, married her partner of six years in San Francisco on Thursday, an act that she said had been "inspired" by President Bush''s remarks.

In addition to New Paltz, the mayor of Schenectady was also considering allowing same-sex marriage ceremonies, according to a state official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because, with events moving so quickly, the official did not want to be seen as encouraging or discouraging such actions.

Today, television trucks converged on New Paltz, located not far from the Hudson River and the Shawangunk Mountains, a ridge of rugged and rocky cliffs popular with rock climbers.

"This would have to be the largest coverage of New Paltz since I joined the department 28 years ago," the township''s police chief, Raymond K. Zappone, said.

Mr. Nevins said he and his partner had driven two hours to reach the mayor''s office.

"Gay and lesbian people have been persecuted and oppressed," he said. "If Rosie O''Donnell can go and get married, I think we can too."

Marc Santora contributed reporting for this article from Albany, Thomas Crampton contributed reporting from New Paltz and Christine Hauser reported from New York City.

Marc Santora contributed reporting for this article from Albany, Thomas Crampton contributed reporting from New Paltz and Christine Hauser reported from New York City.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top
 

Rank Amateur

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Your title makes it seem like the State is somehow condoning this sort of behavior. Quite the opposite is true.

One guy breaking the law in NY is hardly real news, unless you are the "unbiased" NY Times.
 

rodentman

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God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.




'nuff said
 

winyan

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I think Mayor Jason West of New Paltz is a most courageous man.

These same peoples who feel that gay marriage is 'morally wrong' are akin in thought process to those shooting up abortion clinics.

win
 

fire&ice

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----------------
On 2/29/2004 1:29:13 PM winyan wrote:

I think Mayor Jason West of New Paltz is a most courageous man.

These same peoples who feel that gay marriage is 'morally wrong' are akin in thought process to those shooting up abortion clinics.

win----------------



OH PALEASEEEEEEEEE. Akin in "thought process" to those shooting up abortion clinics. It's interesting that you have little to offer except "akin" those who are not rallying around same sex marriage as evil doers, unromantic, unconcerned about love, etc. How can you even start to translate that one's moral conviction about a stance on abortion into someone who would even *consider* shooting up abortion clinics? I have no problem accepting someone's viewpoint that abortion is morally wrong. They have that right. I don't see it the same way. Certainly doesn't mean that I think they are mentally wanting to shoot up abortion clinics.
 

AGBF

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----------------
On 2/29/2004 10:48:17 AM rodentman wrote:



God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.




'nuff said
----------------


Hi, big guy! I missed you!!!

Deb
 

AGBF

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On 2/28/2004 11:43:38 PM Rank Amateur wrote:

Your title makes it seem like the State is somehow condoning this sort of behavior. Quite the opposite is true.


One guy breaking the law in NY is hardly real news, unless you are the 'unbiased' NY Times.----------------


Well you know me, R/A. I just can't seem to get the tone of those titles right! Thank God you are never far away!!

Hugs,
Deb :)
 

AGBF

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Here is some follow-up on what is happening in New Paltz, New York. As I said in another thread (to LawGem), I see marrying same sex couples as civil disobedience. The people who perform those marriages are taking a risk. That is what civil disobedience entails. Civil disobedience is performing an act which is contrary to law or cusom and TAKING THE CONSEQUENCES. It is not breaking a law and fleeing. I find it fascinating that this is happening right in front of us.

This is from "The New York Times":

"March 1, 2004
Same-Sex Weddings Bring Division to an Upstate Village
By THOMAS CRAMPTON

NEW PALTZ, N.Y., Feb. 29 - Until the past few days, this Hudson Valley hamlet was the kind of place where residents often waved to strangers across Main Street and where diverse views on social issues were tolerated, if not downright encouraged. But since last week, when the mayor, Jason West, thrust it into the national debate over same-sex marriage, New Paltz has become a village divided.

"I must have overheard more than one hundred discussions about gay marriage in the last few days," said Paul D. Schembri, a waiter serving Sunday breakfast at the Main Street Bistro. "The numbers for and against are pretty much split down the middle, but there is a clear divide between the young people who support the marriages and the older residents who really hate what the mayor did."

On Friday, Mayor West, 26, a Green Party member, performed 25 same-sex marriages in the Village Hall parking lot. Since then, more than 800 people from across the country have signed onto a waiting list to wed in the village. The mayor has said he will resume performing same-sex marriages on Saturday.

Whether those same-sex couples will be considered legally wed under state law - and entitled to the same benefits as married couples of the opposite sex - is likely to be decided by the courts.

While some long-term residents say they plan to take action to stop the ceremonies, Mr. West has received strong support from those who voted for him, along with the local gay community.

Mobbed like a rock star when he made a brief impromptu appearance Saturday night at The Wave, a local nightclub frequented by gays, the mayor was pulled onto the stage by a drag queen comedian wearing a red dress.

Shoppers and clerks at the Groovy Blueberry, a shop on Main Street that sells tie-dyed clothing, heaped high praise on the mayor on Sunday morning.

"I supported him before the weddings, but now I feel inspired by him," said Errol H. Stryker, 20, a student at State University of New York at New Paltz who said he cast the first vote of his life to help elect the mayor last May.

A part-time clerk at the Groovy Blueberry, Mr. Stryker said the issue of same-sex marriage spoke to students and other young people in a village that is just a half-hour drive away from the scene of the 1969 Woodstock concert.

"Maybe you don't hear it at the Groovy Blueberry, but quite a few conservative people in this village believe gay marriage is totally wrong," Mr. Stryker said. "They tend to be older than 30 and talk about religious beliefs."

But critics of Mr. West warn that a backlash against the mayor is not far off, especially if the weddings continue.

"I am determined to impeach Jason West if the attorney general says he broke the law," said Robert E. Hebel, who has served for more than a decade on the five-person village board. "If he tries to hold weddings again next Saturday, I will go to Kingston to seek an injunction to stop him."

Mr. Hebel stressed that he had no strong views on same-sex marriage, but he faulted the mayor for failing to consult the village board and for using taxpayer money without proper approval.

Other village residents are outright opposed to same-sex marriages.

"If he keeps going with this, I might just get out there and protest," said Dan Patterson, 42, a house painter who has lived in the village for seven years. "Gay marriage is against natural law and flies in the face of human history."

More than 100 Catholic villagers expressed their views with a frosty silence after Sunday Mass at Saint Joseph's, a church just a few hundred yards from the Village Hall parking lot.

After the priest, the Rev. Maurice Moreau, told parishioners not to give interviews, dozens of them filed in silence past a lone reporter seeking their feelings.

The one member of the congregation who did agree to speak condemned gay marriage. "The Bible says a man should not be with a man," said the member, Smitty W. Conover. "God put us on earth to be married as man and wife, not as a man and man."

In addition to stirring debate, the controversy inspired 25 volunteers to answer telephones on Sunday in the Village Hall and plan this week's weddings in an atmosphere they likened to the civil rights activism of the 1960's.

"This is not about special rights; it is about equal rights," said James V. Fallarino, a university student who has volunteered for the last four days. "We are not going to back down."

A New Paltz official said the village Web site had received 18,000 hits in the last three days, more than in the last two years. And after Mayor West asked for help from other people legally permitted to solemnize weddings in the village, a justice of the peace and a city clerk from upstate New York volunteered their services, according to Rebecca Rotzler, a village trustee.

Marriage Licenses Urged

Hundreds of gays and lesbians joined the speaker of the City Council, Gifford Miller, and other politicians on the steps of City Hall yesterday to demand that Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Mayors and city clerks in other communities, including New Paltz, recently started recognizing gay marriages, but Mr. Bloomberg has said he believed New York law prevents it. Mr. Miller, a likely Democratic candidate for mayor next year, urged Mr. Bloomberg to begin issuing the licenses until a court says it is illegal.

Yesterday, Edward Skyler, a spokesman for Mr. Bloomberg, said that if proponents of same-sex marriage persuaded state legislators to change the law, the mayor would make sure the law is followed."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help |
 

winyan

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If my 15 year old niece has the courage to stand up in front of her peers in a debate among a group of different high school debate groups and speak movingly enough about the rights of gays to marry, and come away from her first debate with a 2nd place finish, it's the least I can do is echo her sentiments.

win
 

innerkitten

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My acupuncturist and her long time partner were couple number 79 here in San Francisco.
 

chris-uk04

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On 2/29/2004 1:29:13 PM winyan wrote:

I think Mayor Jason West of New Paltz is a most courageous man.

These same peoples who feel that gay marriage is 'morally wrong' are akin in thought process to those shooting up abortion clinics.

win----------------


First off, Jason West inside “courageous”, he is simply trying to get publicity. If he is practicing “civil disobedience” he should be first arrested. Rosa Parks got arrested. Martin Luther the King got arrested.

Nice try with the abortion clinic theory. You are trying to say that anyone who is against gay marriage is as bad as someone who bombs abortion clinics. For example, let’s do it in reverse and see what you think…. Anybody who thinks a gay lifestyle and marriage is morally “acceptable” are akin in thought process to child molesters who believe that it is okay to have sex with children.
 

AGBF

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The "activist" court orders an end to same sex weddings allowed by the executive branch in San Francisco...and the executive branch obeys :). From, "The New York Times":


March 12, 2004
Court Orders San Francisco Officials to Halt Gay Marriages
By DEAN E. MURPHY

SAN FRANCISCO, March 11 — The California Supreme Court on Thursday ordered city officials here to stop issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, bringing at least a temporary end to a monthlong experiment that had thrust San Francisco to the forefront of a national debate on gay marriage.

"Effective immediately, we are stopping the issuance and recordation of same-sex marriage licenses," the city's assessor-recorder, Mabel S. Teng, announced at a news conference after receiving word of the court's unanimous decision.

The court did not rule on the legality of the marriages, nor did it address the constitutional issues raised by city officials in defense of them. It also left open the possibility that the city could issue the licenses again after further review of two lawsuits on the matter.

"The people who were seeking to stop the marriages prevailed for the time being," said Jesse H. Choper, professor of constitutional law at the University of California, Berkeley. "The only question was who would win for the time being, and they won for the time being."

The ruling came as Massachusetts legislators moved a step closer to amending the state Constitution to ban same-sex marriage but allow civil unions. [Page A12.]

Opponents of the marriages, stymied in several efforts to block them in the lower courts, declared a long-awaited victory.

"It is an overdue day, but a good day," said State Senator William J. Knight, a Palmdale Republican who was the author of a successful ballot measure in 2000 opposing same-sex marriages. "Finally the courts have taken action to put an end to the anarchy in San Francisco."

The ruling came as a shock to city officials and groups who support same-sex marriages despite a state ban in state law. The advocacy group Marriage Equality California organized a march from the Castro District to the Supreme Court building for a rally.

Mayor Gavin Newsom said the city would continue to challenge the constitutionality of the state's ban in court. The city filed a lawsuit Thursday in San Francisco Superior Court raising some of its concerns.

"I believe confidently that when we get to the constitutional question, I will prevail," Mr. Newsom said at a news conference. "But I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't other setbacks in this process. This is the beginning of a struggle, hardly the end."

The Supreme Court said it would consider in May or June whether city officials, under Mr. Newsom's direction, acted beyond their authority "in refusing to enforce the provisions" of the state's family code that define marriage as between a man and a woman.

In the meantime, the justices directed San Francisco officials "to enforce and apply the provisions" of the family code without regard to their "personal view of the constitutionality" of the laws. In allowing the licenses to be issued, Mayor Newsom had argued that the State Constitution's guarantee of equal protection took precedence.

The court issued the ruling in two separate cases. One was brought by the California attorney general, Bill Lockyer, a Democrat, at the urging of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican. The other was filed by the Alliance Defense Fund, a religious group based in Arizona.

"I am pleased to learn the justices of the California Supreme Court determined this matter to be an issue of fundamental statewide importance," Mr. Schwarzenegger said in a statement.

Erwin Chemerinsky, professor of public interest law at the University of Southern California, said the court's ruling amounted to "a freezing of the status quo," as it existed before the first license was issued to a same-sex couple on Feb. 12.

Professor Chemerinsky, who had predicted that the court would not get involved in the matter, described the ruling as "extraordinary" and said it offered hints about the justices' thinking about the legality of the marriages.

"I think what we know at this stage is it means they are troubled with what San Francisco is doing," he said.

Several couples who were waiting at City Hall for appointments to receive licenses were turned away, some of them in tears.

"They were heartbroken," said the county clerk, Nancy Alfaro, whose office issues marriage licenses. "It was very sudden."

At last count, Mr. Newsom said that more than 4,100 licenses had been issued to same-sex couples. An additional 2,600 couples had made appointments for a license.

Kate Kendell, the executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights and among the witnesses at the first same-sex marriage ceremony, said proponents were disappointed but not deterred. Ms. Kendell warned against reading too much into the court's order.

"I think the California Supreme Court has signaled one thing and one thing only," she said, "and that is a desire to approach this historic moment cautiously, deliberately and slowly. We consider this to be simply a pause."

The reaction among some couples at City Hall was more emotional. Patricia Egan, 46, a real estate agent, and Meghan Wharton, 29, a lawyer, were among the first would-be newlyweds who were turned away from the county clerk's office.

The two women had flown to San Francisco in the morning from Phoenix for a 2:30 p.m. appointment. They had filled out the proper paperwork for the license, but when they approached the counter for their appointment they learned that they were two minutes too late.

"I thought they were kidding," Ms. Wharton said. " I didn't think it was possible, and certainly it wasn't possible to happen to me. I started crying. I'm devastated."

Carolyn Marshall contributed reporting for this article.

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innerkitten

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I'm a lover not a fighter so I won't start an online arguement.
But I think that someday gay marriages will be accepted, maybe not this time around but someday.
Remeber there was a time when women couldn't vote, black people had to sit in the back of the bus, and two people of different races could'nt marry.

-Kitten
 

winyan

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----------------
On 3/12/2004 5:29:07 AM chris-uk04 wrote:

----------------
First off, Jason West inside “courageous”, he is simply trying to get publicity. If he is practicing “civil disobedience” he should be first arrested. Rosa Parks got arrested. Martin Luther the King got arrested.

Agreed, he should be arrested, so he can be shown to be a figure of courage, just like Rosa Parks, and MLK!

Nice try with the abortion clinic theory. You are trying to say that anyone who is against gay marriage is as bad as someone who bombs abortion clinics. For example, let’s do it in reverse and see what you think…. Anybody who thinks a gay lifestyle and marriage is morally “acceptable” are akin in thought process to child molesters who believe that it is okay to have sex with children.

----------------



Chris, the latter comparison is ridiculous, and is unworthy of you.

win

----------------
 

chris-uk04

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----------------
On 3/13/2004 12:13:40 PM winyan wrote:

----------------
On 3/12/2004 5:29:07 AM chris-uk04 wrote:

----------------
First off, Jason West inside “courageous”, he is simply trying to get publicity. If he is practicing “civil disobedience” he should be first arrested. Rosa Parks got arrested. Martin Luther the King got arrested.

Agreed, he should be arrested, so he can be shown to be a figure of courage, just like Rosa Parks, and MLK!

Nice try with the abortion clinic theory. You are trying to say that anyone who is against gay marriage is as bad as someone who bombs abortion clinics. For example, lets do it in reverse and see what you think. Anybody who thinks a gay lifestyle and marriage is morally acceptable are akin in thought process to child molesters who believe that it is okay to have sex with children.

----------------



Chris, the latter comparison is ridiculous, and is unworthy of you.

win

----------------

----------------


I don't believe it's true, I just made it up and used it as an example to show how ridiculous your comparison was. Am I not correct?
 

winyan

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Sorry, duplicate post.

win
 

winyan

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No, you are not. The majority of folks most vocal about being opposed to gay marriage are also against abortion, and want to make the US a 'Christian' land, and figure women belong barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

I have a feeling they think it's still 1745 or so.

win

P.S. They are also the folk that think African Americans are a 'lesser race', along with Asian Americans, and "The only good Indian is a dead Indian, since nits make lice". (A US general).
 

fire&ice

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On 3/15/2004 11:34:17 The majority of folks most vocal about being opposed to gay marriage are also against abortion, and want to make the US a 'Christian' land, and figure women belong barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

-------------


That is another ridiculous statement. The only truth in that is perhaps "most vocal". I am opposed & *I* certainly am pro-choice & my hubby has never wanted me barefoot & pregnant. I'm not alone; as, many of my "moderate" pro-choice friends are against gay legal marriage. And, it's not fair to *assign* all anti gay legal marriage people to the "people" you are assigning them to. Antiabortion - taking it a step further to someone who who bomb a clinic, unromantic, heartless - and now you start to eqaute it to someone who thinks other races are a lesser race. Oh please.
 

innerkitten

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It does seem that the biggest opponents to gay marriage are the right wing christian groups.
 

fire&ice

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----------------
On 3/16/2004 5:04:55 PM innerkitten wrote:

It does seem that the biggest opponents to gay marriage are the right wing christian groups.----------------


It's a great leap of faith to say the majority of *that* group is bombing abortion clinics, thinking non white races are "lesser", wanting to keep their women barefoot, pregnant & in the kitchen, etc.
 

winyan

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F&I...

Please, don't take my word on it, just check out some of the on-line political forums. Subjects like these are equated all the time, enough to make my very straight hair curl.

win
 

fire&ice

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On 3/16/2004 11:45:24 PM winyan wrote:

F&I...

Please, don't take my word on it, just check out some of the on-line political forums. Subjects like these are equated all the time, enough to make my very straight hair curl.

win----------------



And those forums are reliable? Please. I can not believe that someone who feels discriminated against would discriminate, label & lump most non believers in gay marriage w/ those other beliefs. So, gay marriage supporters are all bleeding heart liberal fags?
 

winyan

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Don't believe it then, F&I if that comforts you.

I just know what I've experienced/heard/read.

win
 
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