More school for the kids

[radiantquest]

I just finished reading articles about Obama wanting our children to be in school longer. I wasn''t able to find direct quotes so if anyone has them I would appreciate them. From what I got he is supporting having a longer school day, not necessarily a longer school year. I think then when they are small they cannot handle anymore time in school, but once they are in high school I am all for it. I think that it should be progressive, all though I have not thought it out completely. Kindergarten kids cannot handle much more time at school. Even elementary age kids are very tired after school. I think once they hit middle school they should stay til about 5pm. This would cut down on time spent that they could possibly be getting in trouble since most households have both parents working until about that time. Then in high school I think they should go year round. These kids are graduating, going to college and then get jobs and want to be off work all the time. They need to get used to 1-2 weeks off per year.

Maybe I am just harsh because I don''t have kids of my own. What is your opinion?

 

[Ara Ann]

As a parent of a high school student, I think giving them a longer day is a bad idea. My 14 year old son is in 9th grade and gets up at 5:30, he gets home at 3:00 pm. When would they do homework and study for tests? Or play sports? Or just be with their FAMILY? Some people like to spend time with their kids! Not all families have working parents that get home late, etc. I think it''s too much...perhaps they should change how the school day is structured in order to have better learning results...more time at school just means more time at school...it doesn''t guarantee better results for students or better grades.

 

[TooPatient]

I don''t think they should have summers off. Any age.

Regular days (7:30-3) is reasonable for all ages. Getting out at 3 allows time to do after school sports, band rehearsal, dance team practice, piano lessons, private tutoring, plays, choirs (church, community, etc.), and other activities.
For Jewish kids in public schools, it is time to go to Hebrew lessons and bar mitzvah studies.

For high school kids, there is time to do community service projects or a part time job.


My hours (300+ in my senior year of high school alone) of community service were a great experience.

And we just had dinner with a family with very active kids. Soccer 4 days a week, volley ball, piano lessons, community theater (auditioned), and more.

How can government run education be better than that? It just gives them more time to teach the kids about sex (look at Obama''s views on sex ed -- he wants to start teaching at age 5) and tell the kids that they are "special".

Wouldn''t it be better for them to choose their activities (with parents'' help) and work hard at something? The lessons they can learn in team work, fair play, hard work, consequences (if you don''t practice, you don''t get the part), responsibility, etc. are valuable things they can take with them in life.

 

[TooPatient]

Date: 9/29/2009 2:59:17 PM
Author: Ara Ann
As a parent of a high school student, I think giving them a longer day is a bad idea. My 14 year old son is in 9th grade and gets up at 5:30, he gets home at 3:00 pm. When would they do homework and study for tests? Or play sports? Or just be with their FAMILY? Some people like to spend time with their kids! Not all families have working parents that get home late, etc. I think it''s too much...perhaps they should change how the school day is structured in order to have better learning results...more time at school just means more time at school...it doesn''t guarantee better results for students or better grades.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

Not to mention SLEEP?

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 9/29/2009 2:53:13 PM
Author:radiantquest
I just finished reading articles about Obama wanting our children to be in school longer. I wasn''t able to find direct quotes so if anyone has them I would appreciate them. From what I got he is supporting having a longer school day, not necessarily a longer school year. I think then when they are small they cannot handle anymore time in school, but once they are in high school I am all for it. I think that it should be progressive, all though I have not thought it out completely. Kindergarten kids cannot handle much more time at school. Even elementary age kids are very tired after school. I think once they hit middle school they should stay til about 5pm. This would cut down on time spent that they could possibly be getting in trouble since most households have both parents working until about that time. Then in high school I think they should go year round. These kids are graduating, going to college and then get jobs and want to be off work all the time. They need to get used to 1-2 weeks off per year.

Maybe I am just harsh because I don''t have kids of my own. What is your opinion?

Jr high kids stay till 5pm? I don''t think so! My son gets picked up at 7am for the jr high bus! He gets home at 3:30 and is burned out. Then by the time he is done with home work its 5pm or 6pm. Then dinner, a bath or shower and he is wiped. And on days he has afterschool acitivies, he is lucky to be in bed by 10pm.

I don''t think the school hours per day should be increased. However I would definatley support a shorter summer break.

 

[swingirl]

Date: 9/29/2009 2:59:17 PM
Author: Ara Ann
As a parent of a high school student, I think giving them a longer day is a bad idea. My 14 year old son is in 9th grade and gets up at 5:30, he gets home at 3:00 pm. When would they do homework and study for tests? Or play sports? Or just be with their FAMILY? Some people like to spend time with their kids! Not all families have working parents that get home late, etc. I think it's too much...perhaps they should change how the school day is structured in order to have better learning results...more time at school just means more time at school...it doesn't guarantee better results for students or better grades.

Yep!! The quality time I spent with my kids after school far surpassed the time they would have spent with their peers and some tired teachers. I was able to nurture my kid's interests with creative activities, community service, jobs and social functions that I approved. Not every kid in my kid's school was someone I wanted them to spend more time with.

Obama shouldn't punish my family because some kids and their parents aren't cutting it. When people are adults they should behave like them. But school aged kids don't need to act like 25 year olds with full-time jobs and the stresses that go along with it.

Keep in mind too that for many kids being able to work for 3 months during the summer is their ticket to college.

And I almost forgot to mention, some kids do summer school: enrichment or remedial classes. Some kids take classes at the local community college to boast up their GPA. Summer is for a lot more than vacations although it is a really nice time to reconnect and relax. And as you'll find out if you have kids between working parents' own schedules and different school schedules it is not easy to plan a summer vacation.

Radiantquest, I sure hope I never have to work for someone as harsh as you. I need more than 1 or 2 weeks off a year to stay sane. Sheesh!

 

[Aloros]

I''m with asscherisme - shorter summer break, but not longer school days. My stepson gets home from school about 3PM, does his homework and a chore or two, DH and I get home at 4:45, I take him to baseball practice or sometimes a game, we get home around 7PM, time for dinner, a short bit of relax time and/or finishing hw, and then bedtime. On days w/o baseball, he has a bit of time to go out and play with his friends.

I''d like for his school to offer an after-school program where he can have help with his homework and have more supervision, but I was also told his school will probably be offering this next year.

But almost 3 months off for summer vacation? I don''t think it''s necessary. I think a month to a month and a half would be enough for kids to go on vacation, see family members, goof off, etc.

 

[tlh]

Date: 9/29/2009 3:35:25 PM
Author: swingirl

Date: 9/29/2009 2:59:17 PM
Author: Ara Ann
As a parent of a high school student, I think giving them a longer day is a bad idea. My 14 year old son is in 9th grade and gets up at 5:30, he gets home at 3:00 pm. When would they do homework and study for tests? Or play sports? Or just be with their FAMILY? Some people like to spend time with their kids! Not all families have working parents that get home late, etc. I think it''s too much...perhaps they should change how the school day is structured in order to have better learning results...more time at school just means more time at school...it doesn''t guarantee better results for students or better grades.

Yep!! The quality time I spent with my kids after school far surpassed the time they would have spent with their peers and some tired teachers. I was able to nurture my kid''s interests with creative activities, community service, jobs and social functions that I approved. Not every kid in my kid''s school was someone I wanted them to spend more time with.

Obama shouldn''t punish my family because some kids and their parents aren''t cutting it. When people are adults they should behave like them. But school aged kids don''t need to act like 25 year olds with full-time jobs and the stresses that go along with it.

Keep in mind too that for many kids being able to work for 3 months during the summer is their ticket to college.

Radiantquest, I sure hope I never have to work for someone as harsh as you. I need more than 1 or 2 weeks off a year to stay sane. Sheesh!

It was how I paid for some of mine, then kicked in the stu-loans.

 

[VegasAngel]

I agree too with the shorter summer breaks. Also do they really need a week/two weeks off around Christmas, spring break etc.? Some schools here are year around.

 

[swingirl]

I get the feeling that a lot of people really don''t want to spend time with their own kids.

 

[Ara Ann]

A lot of people equate more school with better grades and smarter, more productive kids. That is not the case at all. Our schools need to get smarter about how they teach kids, grade and evaluate kids, etc., before they try to keep them in school more hours. If it isn''t working now, how is more of it going to be better? It just doesn''t make any sense at all.

 

[Haven]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:03:32 PM
Author: Ara Ann
A lot of people equate more school with better grades and smarter, more productive kids. That is not the case at all. Our schools need to get smarter about how they teach kids, grade and evaluate kids, etc., before they try to keep them in school more hours. If it isn''t working now, how is more of it going to be better? It just doesn''t make any sense at all.

BINGO.

 

[kittybean]

What about allowing students time to travel? I know not everyone has the opportunity to do this, but many kids benefit from several weeks spent at camp, doing Outward Bound, on community service trips, on vacation with family, or studying abroad. My parents took advantage of summers off to take us all over the world; I think my education wouldn''t have been complete if I hadn''t been able to do that.

I went to year-round school in elementary school, and while we didn''t have the whole summer off, we did have a 9 weeks on, 3 weeks off schedule. We got the same number of vacation days that kids in traditional school did, just at different times. There was definitely less "forgetting" of material during the shorter times, but it also could be distracting to be constantly "tracking on" and "tracking off," as they called it. In that school district, kids in middle and high school followed a traditional schedule so they could go to camp and do summer programs during the traditional vacation time.

I''m not sure older kids should go to school longer, either. In high school, I left the house at 7 am, finished school at 3, then went to 3+ hours of gymnastics or skiing practice or National Honor Society activities or piano lessons or choir practice, then came home, ate dinner with my family, and did all my homework for my full load of AP classes. I was never able to get to bed before 11pm-midnight, which meant I only got 6-7 hours or sleep before I had to start the whole thing over again. That is not enough sleep for a growing teenager (maybe that is why I''m so short!). If the school day were longer, I would have had to either not sleep or give up my extracurricular activities, which were important for getting into college and getting the scholarships I wanted and needed. These days, it''s not enough to be a good student--you have to have a resume a mile long to be considered for many of the top schools and scholarships. Unless colleges change the way they review students for admission, longer school days (especially if not consistently implemented, since education is an area reserved for governance by the states [wish I could have a sit-down with the federal government about federalism]) could put students at a disadvantage.

Anyway, I''m not sure that what we need is more school. We need better schooling and better parenting across the board. While there are so many great parents out there, there are still tons of kids who aren''t getting good parenting, and schools can''t be a substitute for that. [Sigh.] All this is waaaaaay easier said than done

.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:10:01 PM
Author: Haven

Date: 9/29/2009 4:03:32 PM
Author: Ara Ann
A lot of people equate more school with better grades and smarter, more productive kids. That is not the case at all. Our schools need to get smarter about how they teach kids, grade and evaluate kids, etc., before they try to keep them in school more hours. If it isn''t working now, how is more of it going to be better? It just doesn''t make any sense at all.

BINGO.

Exactly!!! Kids need more of a childhood. Seems like this has been lost if you ask me.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 9/29/2009 3:58:13 PM
Author: swingirl
I get the feeling that a lot of people really don''t want to spend time with their own kids.

This was exactly my thought.

When I think about my own childhood, the majority of "real life" experience was gained after school and in the summer. That''s when I worked, which was a lesson in and of itself. It''s also when I spent time focusing on extra-curricular activities that I enjoyed and eventually managed other students...and most importantly, balancing those.

If you took most students out of a classroom setting, they could complete the same cirriculum in half the time--I don''t know how adding more hours could possibly help.

 

[princesss]

I think a longer day is a bad idea. Year round school is, IMO, the way to go. Kids lose so much if they don''t keep challenging their brains - they''re a muscle, they need to be used to stay strong! A longer day is only going to hurt the students. In HS, I got up at 6, was on the bus at 6:50, school from 8-3, drama from 3-6, got home around 7, ate dinner with my family, then did anywhere between 2 and 5 hours of homework. On a bad day, I wouldn''t get to sleep until 1 or 2. I spent MAYBE an hour of time with my family. A longer school day would have killed me. Plus, the teachers I know are at work from about 7 to 5 or 6. Extending the kid''s day extends theirs, too, and they''ve got families to spend time with, as well. The last thing we need to do is burn out our teachers and our students.

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 9/29/2009 3:44:48 PM
Author: Aloros
I''m with asscherisme - shorter summer break, but not longer school days. My stepson gets home from school about 3PM, does his homework and a chore or two, DH and I get home at 4:45, I take him to baseball practice or sometimes a game, we get home around 7PM, time for dinner, a short bit of relax time and/or finishing hw, and then bedtime. On days w/o baseball, he has a bit of time to go out and play with his friends.

I''d like for his school to offer an after-school program where he can have help with his homework and have more supervision, but I was also told his school will probably be offering this next year.

But almost 3 months off for summer vacation? I don''t think it''s necessary. I think a month to a month and a half would be enough for kids to go on vacation, see family members, goof off, etc.

Exacatly. Its hard to even get time to have an hour to hang out with friends. Most week days there is no time for that. Our week days are SO busy and the amount of homework they get is crazy. they are KIDS and yes working hard is important, but they need some unstructured time too.

I think 6 weeks for summer is plenty of time to visit family, maybe get some summer camp in if thats your thing, enjoy having out by the pool or whatever. 6 weeks would offer the right balance I think.

 

[radiantquest]

Honestly, I don''t want everyone to think that I want kids to be in school all the time. I guess I was just thinking that since other countries tend to test better and spend more time in school that maybe that would help our education problems too. I am not claiming that this is right by any stretch, however I think that many, many parents are not as proactive as you guys are. My own parents did not do anything with me. Yes, I worked after school. Did that help my education? No.

As far as the comment made about the 1-2 weeks vacation a year. That is what most people get. I have only worked for 1 company that gave more than that without working there for more than 5 years.

 

[Haven]

You''d be hard-pressed to find teachers who would stay on if school days became longer and vacations were not shortened. Most teachers are burnt out as it is, anyway.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Another year round supporter here. There were several elementary schools that went year round where I grew up, and it seemed like students retained information better and there wasn''t the month long "remember when?" ramp up for each new year.

I don''t support a longer school day, at all. I find that spending 8 hours a day attemtping to absorb information is exhausting enough, let alone all of the extracurricular activities they have available to them.

 

[asscherisme]

Haven, thats why I think it would never happen. And if it did, I think teachers should be compensated. And there is not way overstretched budgets could handle that. I know the teachers at my kids schools work so hard and I have SO much respect for them. You have a tough job and believe me when I tell you that as a parent, a good teacher is something that I really treasure!!

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:33:30 PM
Author: princesss
I think a longer day is a bad idea. Year round school is, IMO, the way to go. Kids lose so much if they don''t keep challenging their brains - they''re a muscle, they need to be used to stay strong! A longer day is only going to hurt the students. In HS, I got up at 6, was on the bus at 6:50, school from 8-3, drama from 3-6, got home around 7, ate dinner with my family, then did anywhere between 2 and 5 hours of homework. On a bad day, I wouldn''t get to sleep until 1 or 2. I spent MAYBE an hour of time with my family. A longer school day would have killed me. Plus, the teachers I know are at work from about 7 to 5 or 6. Extending the kid''s day extends theirs, too, and they''ve got families to spend time with, as well. The last thing we need to do is burn out our teachers and our students.

EXACTLY! Teachers often have their own families to go home to. And those who are single or married with no kids still need their downtime too. I know that teachers work many hours beyond the regular school day as it is. Extending the school day is just not the way to go in my opinion.

 

[packrat]

Another supporter of year round school here! One of my friends lives in Nevada and her daughter looooves it, and so does my friend. I didn''t go to school until Kindergarten. We didn''t do preschool. Here, they have preschool starting (full days, mind you, not just a couple hours now and again) at 3!!! They do that for the working parents. I just think it''s ridiculous.

 

[radiantquest]

I think that this is becoming a hot button issue because it is so different is different areas. It does seem like kids are out of school a good bit where I live. Holidays I understand. They get Christmas through New Years and then 2 weeks in the spring why? They are getting ready to be out all summer. I think it is either February or March, I''m not sure, but there is a month that the students do not have a full week of school.

Teachers do have it very hard. I have two friends that are teachers and they say that usually they put in 14 hour days. That once school lets out they have to grade papers, do lesson plans and that is just class stuff there is also the school stuff that they have to do that is required of them.

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:50:57 PM
Author: Haven
You''d be hard-pressed to find teachers who would stay on if school days became longer and vacations were not shortened. Most teachers are burnt out as it is, anyway.

Yep.

Actually, the district I''m teaching in now (and teacher friends who teach elsewhere) only has one week of vacation aside from the Christmas break. I''ve always had a winter break and a spring break, so it will be a touch change for me this year. We''ve talked in the past about giving one of those weeks up but when it comes down to it, no one wants to give up a vacation week.

I do feel spoiled by having so much time off during the summer, as well as the other random days/weeks we get. I''d be really bummed though if some of that was taken away.

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:56:40 PM
Author: asscherisme

Date: 9/29/2009 4:33:30 PM

Author: princesss

I think a longer day is a bad idea. Year round school is, IMO, the way to go. Kids lose so much if they don''t keep challenging their brains - they''re a muscle, they need to be used to stay strong! A longer day is only going to hurt the students. In HS, I got up at 6, was on the bus at 6:50, school from 8-3, drama from 3-6, got home around 7, ate dinner with my family, then did anywhere between 2 and 5 hours of homework. On a bad day, I wouldn''t get to sleep until 1 or 2. I spent MAYBE an hour of time with my family. A longer school day would have killed me. Plus, the teachers I know are at work from about 7 to 5 or 6. Extending the kid''s day extends theirs, too, and they''ve got families to spend time with, as well. The last thing we need to do is burn out our teachers and our students.

EXACTLY! Teachers often have their own families to go home to. And those who are single or married with no kids still need their downtime too. I know that teachers work many hours beyond the regular school day as it is. Extending the school day is just not the way to go in my opinion.

We don''t have kids but I know I need my downtime to do my own thing and not think about school once I get home. If our day was much longer, I''d never feel like I had enough free time.

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:50:52 PM
Author: radiantquest
Honestly, I don''t want everyone to think that I want kids to be in school all the time. I guess I was just thinking that since other countries tend to test better and spend more time in school that maybe that would help our education problems too. I am not claiming that this is right by any stretch, however I think that many, many parents are not as proactive as you guys are. My own parents did not do anything with me. Yes, I worked after school. Did that help my education? No.


As far as the comment made about the 1-2 weeks vacation a year. That is what most people get. I have only worked for 1 company that gave more than that without working there for more than 5 years.

You have to realize that many other countries that "test" better than us do not have the same kind of free public education available to EVERYBODY! In some countries, children go to school until a certain age (middle school age-ish I think) and then take a test. Depending on the score, that student will be moved on for more academic education, or they are put on another "track"- like more job skill training type stuff. Comparing academic scores from the US to a country that has that type of program is OBVIOUSLY going to look bad on our part...

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/29/2009 3:08:21 PM
Author: TooPatient

Wouldn''t it be better for them to choose their activities (with parents'' help) and work hard at something? The lessons they can learn in team work, fair play, hard work, consequences (if you don''t practice, you don''t get the part), responsibility, etc. are valuable things they can take with them in life.

That''s assuming that all parents give a crap about their kids and their educations. I''ve lived in inner city areas and seen illiterate teenage parents who don''t care at all about whether their children are even showing up to school, never mind how well they are achieving - they are expecting them to end up on welfare, or in prison, just like mom and dad. Your comment assumes that all students have parents who are examples of what a good work ethic can do for your life success, but there are many children living in urban and rural areas with ignorant parents who are not teaching them the life skills that they need to succeed. I think that those are the children that the government is trying to reach, by keeping them away from the bad influence of their parents as many hours a day as possible.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Lots of good points here, wish I could quote them all.

My concern is that our kids are not active enough and the food that schools offer is not very nutritious. What would keeping them in school longer do to the problem we have of too many kids being overweight? A lot of other countries actually have the same hours of school that our kids have (according to the article I read) when you average it out over the year. Don''t Europeans take lots of vacation compared to us? If art, music, and physical education became a required part of our education, I think the students could handle a longer day. A whole day of math, history, english ect + homework is just too much.

And there is more to education than what is in the classroom. If you always have the child in the classroom, how are they supposed to get that?

I think for the lower income areas, or for working families, an optional after school program that offers tutoring in areas children struggle, physical education, or art might be a nice option.

 

[soocool]

I fail to understand the logic that more time in school = better students.

1. Regarding increasing the length of the school day. Now we should build in additional meal/snack times since we are increasing the length of the day and kids will begin to lose concentration when their stomaches are grumbling.

2. Kids now would get out at 5pm during the evening rush hour. Now that''s smart. If your kid spends and hour on the bus getting home, let''s just increase everyones commute home. Dinner at 9pm around bedtime?

3. No summers off. What about the hs kids who work full time during the summer to make money for college. That''s ok student loans (if he can get one) will keep him in debt awhile unless all that extra time in school pays off and he gets a full scholarship to an ivy league school.

4. Again regarding no summers off: So does that mean most families with kids will take their vacations at the same time? Oh, make that vacations around the holidays. That makes great sense.

5. How long does it take before a person loses concentration and how much longer will it take to learn what is being taught?

6. Now if a student is out sick it will take even more time to makeup what was missed in school.

7. What will happen to after school clinics or tutoring? Oh well, let these kids get further behind and they''ll soon drop out when they can.

8. Increase in school time = increase in school taxes. Maybe the government can increase their monetary support of schools instead of bailing out other industries.

9. Now will all this additional time spent at school be to teach the student or test the student? Since starting hs 3 years ago, DD has on average 10 tests/quizzes per week.


My DD is a junior in high school. She is an Honors student and takes honors & AP courses. She is involved in soccer, takes piano lessons, tutors at the hs from 7-9pm twice a month, tutors at an elementray school once a week from 4-5pm, does at least 4 hours of community service each month during the school year and about 50 hours during the summer in addition to working 30 hours a week during the summer. In preparation for her junior year she had to complete a math packet and read several books that required written reports, not to mention she is completing her Graduation Project (which is a requirement).

At this point my DD will be not affected by the changes Obama and the Secretary of Education are proposing. IMO, the length of the school day does not correlate with smarter students. What we need are teachers who can teach and teach effectively, parents who make sure their kids are going to school and doing the work, and the government to keep the money flowing so that important curricula are not cut due to budget constraints. There is much to be learned outside of the classroom and the more time spent in a structured learning environment stifles creativity. There is a time to learn from books and a time to learn via life experiences.