More school for the kids

[Haven]

Date: 9/29/2009 8:23:52 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
Lots of good points here, wish I could quote them all.

My concern is that our kids are not active enough and the food that schools offer is not very nutritious. What would keeping them in school longer do to the problem we have of too many kids being overweight? A lot of other countries actually have the same hours of school that our kids have (according to the article I read) when you average it out over the year. Don''t Europeans take lots of vacation compared to us? If art, music, and physical education became a required part of our education, I think the students could handle a longer day. A whole day of math, history, english ect + homework is just too much.

And there is more to education than what is in the classroom. If you always have the child in the classroom, how are they supposed to get that?

I think for the lower income areas, or for working families, an optional after school program that offers tutoring in areas children struggle, physical education, or art might be a nice option.

Physical education requirements are mandated on a state-by-state basis. My state (Illinois) is one of a handful that requires phys ed for K-12.

I agree about a lot of school lunches, but communities have control over that. If community members really care about what their schools are offering for lunch, there are ways to persuade BOEs to contract with a healthy lunch program, I''ve seen it happen. I suppose what I''m saying is that schools are only as strong/healthy/focused/dedicated as their communities. In recent years I''ve seen several Wisconsin communities raise grassroots efforts to campaign for healthier lunches, and lo and behold! Their children now have access to healthy school lunches. I worked in a community that didn''t really care much about the quality of their schools, and it shows. I live in a community that cares very much about the quality of our schools, and that shows, too.

I agree that an entire day of core subjects is far too much. And you''re right--the classroom is only the very beginning.

 

[Haven]

Date: 9/29/2009 8:27:35 PM
Author: soocool
[ . . . ] What we need are teachers who can teach and teach effectively, parents who make sure their kids are going to school and doing the work, and the government to keep the money flowing so that important curricula are not cut due to budget constraints. There is much to be learned outside of the classroom and the more time spent in a structured learning environment stifles creativity. There is a time to learn from books and a time to learn via life experiences.

I agree with this, but I think the *most* important thing that we need is to reexamine the way we assess school performance. Our government''s current assessment method relies on standardized tests that don''t accurately test skills and abilities, so our teachers find themselves stuck between the desire to truly teach their students what is important and the need to teach their students how to fill in the right bubble on a standardized exam.

 

[Kaleigh]

It starts at home plain and simple!!!! Parents need to put education first and monitor their kids progress.

How many times do we hear that parents don't show up at school for parent teacher meetings. It just boggles my mind.

More school?? Only if the parents are willing to put in their time and stop putting the blame on the teachers......

It takes a village sure. But the village starts with whoever is parenting the child and extends from there.... If you don't have the first ingredient, well the village pays the price...

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Haven - I am glad to hear some communities are starting to fix the school lunch issue. I don''t think CA has K-12 mandated PE. My guess is that there would be a positive correlation between how well the school performs and how how healthy the food is. Why? Because those are the schools that are in communities where parents care about the overall wellbeing and education of their child.

Which drives home the point Kaleigh is making, that the struggling children are coming from families where the parents don''t make education a priority. I think this is often times because of big problems that are hard to attack. How do you deal with the issue that they don''t have educations, and that by third grade, their child will figure this out and think that is all they need to achieve? How do you deal with the lack of roll models? How do you deal with the mom who is working too jobs to make ends meet and doesn''t have time to help with the homework? How do you deal with that parent who really doesn''t care?

I guess it is easier to ignore all this and just come up with a blanket solution that school days should be extended for all.

 

[Haven]

Date: 9/29/2009 9:45:03 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
Haven - I am glad to hear some communities are starting to fix the school lunch issue. I don''t think CA has K-12 mandated PE. My guess is that there would be a positive correlation between how well the school performs and how how healthy the food is. Why? Because those are the schools that are in communities where parents care about the overall wellbeing and education of their child.

Which drives home the point Kaleigh is making, that the struggling children are coming from families where the parents don''t make education a priority. I think this is often times because of big problems that are hard to attack. How do you deal with the issue that they don''t have educations, and that by third grade, their child will figure this out and think that is all they need to achieve? How do you deal with the lack of roll models? How do you deal with the mom who is working too jobs to make ends meet and doesn''t have time to help with the homework? How do you deal with that parent who really doesn''t care?

I guess it is easier to ignore all this and just come up with a blanket solution that school days should be extended for all.

Oh, I must have been unclear. I don''t agree with the extended school day at all. NOT AT ALL. In fact, I don''t agree with much about the way we run our public schools in this country.

How do we solve all of those problems? I have no idea. How do we change an entire society''s messed up priorities? Where do we begin? How do we rearrange an economic system that keeps the poor poor, and builds in blockades so their children have very little chance of overcoming the same obstacles their parents face? I just don''t know.

I was just commenting about the different state regs for PE and some awesome things I saw with school lunch reform.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 9/29/2009 9:00:34 PM
Author: Kaleigh
It starts at home plain and simple!!!! Parents need to put education first and monitor their kids progress.

How many times do we hear that parents don''t show up at school for parent teacher meetings. It just boggles my mind.

More school?? Only if the parents are willing to put in their time and stop putting the blame on the teachers......

It takes a village sure. But the village starts with whoever is parenting the child and extends from there.... If you don''t have the first ingredient, well the village pays the price...

Very much agree-

Some parents treat school/teachers like babysitters.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Haven - I must have not been clear, because I did understand that you were making specific points about PE and school lunches. Sorry it it sounded like I mis understood you. I think I was trying to make 2 separate points and they came across as one point.

The questions you asked are difficult. My mother was a teacher for kids who are mentally disturbed. She left teaching because she realized she could not help the kids without helping the families and that the school setting does not allow for that.

 

[sparklyheart]

Date: 9/29/2009 9:00:34 PM
Author: Kaleigh
It starts at home plain and simple!!!! Parents need to put education first and monitor their kids progress.

How many times do we hear that parents don''t show up at school for parent teacher meetings. It just boggles my mind.

More school?? Only if the parents are willing to put in their time and stop putting the blame on the teachers......

It takes a village sure. But the village starts with whoever is parenting the child and extends from there.... If you don''t have the first ingredient, well the village pays the price...

I''ve been reading all of the replies and trying to think of the best way to say that it''s all about the PARENTS and Kaleigh, you summed it up perfectly!! Think of all of the adults who made it through school (going normal hours with normal summers and breaks during the year) and went to college, did well, and now have good jobs (ok, maybe some had good jobs before the economy tanked at least). I don''t think school is the problem!! Ways of parenting have changed so much over the years and it''s really sad to me.

Kids are kids and they need time to be kids.. Even at 16 and 17! I don''t see any reason why they should go to school 8-5 like adults because there is plenty of time for that in the rest of their lives. I''m all for year-round school. In places where they do go year-round they get serveral week-long (or longer) breaks scattered throughout the year. This seems like it would cause less problems with kids forgetting everything over the summer but still give them time for travelling, camps, etc. Keeping the school day the same still allows all of those kids to work. I can''t imagine taking away the ability for them to get jobs.. Teens are a huge part of our job force and they need to be there. Sitting in a classroom 8-5 will not teach them some of the most important aspects of being in the real world and working.

Plus, I''m not a teacher, but all of my teacher friends are DONE by 3 or 4pm. I can''t even imagine how that would go if they worked even longer with 20-30 kids all day everyday. I don''t know many people who would sign up for that job. They already don''t have time to grade papers, make lesson plans, and deal with all of the issues that arise with the days the way they are!

 

[Ara Ann]

My son used this topic to write an editorial for his journalism assignment! At least it is sparking discussion about education. We''ll see how it plays out I guess.

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 9/29/2009 8:43:16 PM
Author: Haven

Date: 9/29/2009 8:23:52 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
Lots of good points here, wish I could quote them all.

My concern is that our kids are not active enough and the food that schools offer is not very nutritious. What would keeping them in school longer do to the problem we have of too many kids being overweight? A lot of other countries actually have the same hours of school that our kids have (according to the article I read) when you average it out over the year. Don''t Europeans take lots of vacation compared to us? If art, music, and physical education became a required part of our education, I think the students could handle a longer day. A whole day of math, history, english ect + homework is just too much.

And there is more to education than what is in the classroom. If you always have the child in the classroom, how are they supposed to get that?

I think for the lower income areas, or for working families, an optional after school program that offers tutoring in areas children struggle, physical education, or art might be a nice option.

Physical education requirements are mandated on a state-by-state basis. My state (Illinois) is one of a handful that requires phys ed for K-12.

I agree about a lot of school lunches, but communities have control over that. If community members really care about what their schools are offering for lunch, there are ways to persuade BOEs to contract with a healthy lunch program, I''ve seen it happen. I suppose what I''m saying is that schools are only as strong/healthy/focused/dedicated as their communities. In recent years I''ve seen several Wisconsin communities raise grassroots efforts to campaign for healthier lunches, and lo and behold! Their children now have access to healthy school lunches. I worked in a community that didn''t really care much about the quality of their schools, and it shows. I live in a community that cares very much about the quality of our schools, and that shows, too.

I agree that an entire day of core subjects is far too much. And you''re right--the classroom is only the very beginning.

Absolutely.

My mom is a "lunch lady" and their menu is a very healthy menu. She and her coworkers fought for it (she works in an elementary school and was tired of serving cheese pizza for lunch) and they got the community involved. Now they offer a much healthier lunch.

 

[steph72276]

I''m with Haven....having been on the other side of things as a teacher, this idea would never fly. Many people think teachers have it easy with great hours and lots of vacation. However, I know when I worked in the school system, I would arrive 30 minutes earlier than the children, work all day (8 hours, including watching the children while eating lunch so no real break), then stay after to get the room ready for the next day, do lesson plans, meet with parents, go to faculty meetings, grade assignments, etc. Teachers work well over 40 hours a week as is. And as far as summers go, we stay at least a week after the kids leave to make sure report cards are complete and go home, take things down from the room, meet with other teachers to help place the kids for the next year, meetings, meetings, meetings....then we arrive weeks in advance to get the room ready for the following year. So no, we don''t get 3 months off. So how does Mr. Obama plan on compensating these teachers for the extra time they will put in? I would bet my house on the fact that there will be less and less teachers going into the field if this ever happened. It makes no sense for the teachers or the students.

I do advocate an after school program for students with parents that work. Every school I''ve been in has had a great program for elementary students where they can go after school to have a snack, play outside, and do homework.

 

[steph72276]

I also wanted to add that although I got into teaching first and foremost because of my love for children and the desire to make a difference, I also chose it as a career path for practical reasons. I knew I wanted a family and that I wanted to be have a job where I was home with them as much as possible. Teachers trade in a low pay for the benefit of getting off of work at an early time and having holidays and summers off. Take that benefit away, and you lose some very talented people. I know I could go and work at an hourly job that only required a GED and make about the same I was making as a teacher, so the hours/summers off really did make a difference to me and I know I'm not the only one to feel that way.

 

[Lilac]

I went to an Orthodox Jewish elementary school (yeshiva) and yeshiva high school. In elementary school I was in school from 8 to 4 and in high school I left my house at 7 in the morning and got home at 6 at night (sometimes later). I was in school learning in class from 8 in the morning until 5 or 5:30 in the afternoon every single day (other than Friday when we got out of school at 4:00 or 2:00 depending on the time of the year). My husband also went to yeshiva elementary school and high school and in the boys private high schools they have one or two nights a week with "late learning" until 9:30 at night. And school on Sundays until 12 or 1:00pm.

It''s an insane amount of school. I remember by the time I got home in high school it was so late that I barely had any time to study and do my homework. We also have the Sabbath on Friday nights and Saturdays where we can''t do any homework so I caught up on all my homework Saturday nights and Sundays. For the first two years of high school I never ate dinner because I simply did not have time, I studied and did homework every night until around 2 or 3 in the morning and then I slept for 3 or 4 hours and woke up at 6 for school. Spent all day in school, got home at 6 at night and started the whole process all over again. I hardly saw my friends outside of school and only saw my family as I walked through the door on my way to my room for a whole night of studying and homework. Luckily I had the Sabbath to relax a little and see people, otherwise I never would have.

Eventually I got sick - in junior year of high school all the YEARS of sleeping for 3 or 4 hours a night, never eating dinner, and constantly being shut in my room doing homework and studying made me sick. I was exhausted and totally burnt out - whatever I had wasn''t the flu, it wasn''t anything doctors could diagnose, but I had very high fever and could barely move at all for around 2 weeks. Lost a ton of weight over those 2 weeks. Finally I got better and realized as much as I cared about school and doing well I couldn''t keep up with it all. I started sleeping more, started enjoying myself a little more on weekends, and started realizing that school isn''t EVERYTHING.

Kids need breaks - they need time to relax and burn off steam. College was an unbelievable RELIEF after high school because even though I have harder tests and more work to do, I get home by 4 most days and have SO MUCH more time to accomplish my work and get everything done. I would never go back to high school - it was 4 years of constant stress, lack of sleep, and not having time to socialize.

As much as it might seem like longer school days could be the answer to some problems, longer school days could CAUSE so many other problems. From my experience, 8 in the morning until 3 or 4 in the afternoon is enough time to learn and still gives kids time to have a childhood and get some sleep at night. I also don''t think year-round school is a good idea either - I''ve done the year-round school thing and after a year of constant school and no vacation it just makes you want to stop altogether. Summer is important - it gives us a chance to recharge and re-energize!

 

[Ara Ann]

Wow Lilac...that must have been a tough few years for you! Happy you made it through and have a good attitude about it now!


That also brings up a good point...not all kids are cut out for that amount of schooling. Some kids barely hang on long enough to finish high school and do not plan to go to college...how many more kids would we LOSE if they felt overwhelmed by even more hours added to the school day? Those kids are the very ones that need encouragement to at least complete high school, because they may never go on to college. If they drop out before graduating, they and the whole country, will be worse off in the long run! I think this would back fire and we''d be worse off than we are now.

 

[Lilac]

Date: 9/30/2009 12:57:46 PM
Author: Ara Ann
Wow Lilac...that must have been a tough few years for you! Happy you made it through and have a good attitude about it now!

That also brings up a good point...not all kids are cut out for that amount of schooling. Some kids barely hang on long enough to finish high school and do not plan to go to college...how many more kids would we LOSE if they felt overwhelmed by even more hours added to the school day? Those kids are the very ones that need encouragement to at least complete high school, because they may never go on to college. If they drop out before graduating, they and the whole country, will be worse off in the long run! I think this would back fire and we''d be worse off than we are now.

I agree. I think there are so many kids who already dislike school and adding more hours (and probably therefore more schoolwork) has the potential to completely backfire. I have a few friends who couldn''t handle the amount of work we had in high school and barely graduated. Some chose to not go to college because they were so turned off of the idea of school from the hours we had to put in during high school. Others were "forced" to go to college by their parents but they put no effort in and are practically failing out anyway.

I think learning can be enjoyable if it''s mixed with time off and time to socialize and enjoy friends and family. When you start forcing kids to spend their ENTIRE days in school and their entire nights doing schoolwork and studying, that''s when kids start to hate school and they begin dropping out or not putting effort in anymore.