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Mean Girls (upsetting news item)

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Ideal_Rock
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A young woman was driven to suicide by her peers, terribly tragic. I''m going to use this article tomorrow to talk to teens about standing up for what they believe is right, how difficult this is to do, and why group think is so powerful. I am really curious about what you think. This is actually going to be in the context of a unit on the Rwandan Genocide, but focusing on issues of when/what compels a person to do what is right. What are your thoughts?

Mean Girls
 
That''s terrible
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I can''t answer your questions intelligently because these things make me far too emotional to even begin to grasp the logic behind these actions.

It''s also stories like this that make me want to keep DD sheltered from the harshness of the world even though it isn''t the best answer.

The hardest part for me to understand is what makes the victim ignore, fight back, or tragically end their lives? Is it a personality thing, something they''re born with that tells them to ignore it and life will move forward, better things are yet to come? Is it a personality thing that tells them life doesn''t get better, end it now? Does it depend on what they''re taught at home? At school?

How does a parent teach their child what is right when it comes to bullies when their child is the victim? And how do you teach your child to stick up for the victim when everyone else is silent, knowing that they could become a victim as well?

The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.
 
Well first as a former almost history teacher (B.S. in education, student taught, but changed careers) I have to say awesome article for your unit! That''s exactly the stuff I used to do to get my students thinking. Seriously makes me miss teaching.
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It''s a very sad story though. Really a shame that it''s true. Reminds me of the other story a while back where a mom was helping her daughter and friends torment a girl on facebook and she decided to hang herself in her closet too.
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awful
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ugh, this story makes me physically ill. It breaks my heart.

Do you think parents are responsible for making "mean girls"? I''m not a parent (except to furry babies), but 2nd to my child being a victim, my biggest nightmare would be raising a "mean girl" without even realizing it.
 
Date: 1/26/2010 12:54:22 AM
Author: MonkeyPants
ugh, this story makes me physically ill. It breaks my heart.

Do you think parents are responsible for making ''mean girls''? I''m not a parent (except to furry babies), but 2nd to my child being a victim, my biggest nightmare would be raising a ''mean girl'' without even realizing it.
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YES, I do think parents hold some responsiblity in making mean girls. Parents are the first ones to teach about how to treat other people. Not just words but by actions. I have noticed that the mean girls I have encoutered at Jr. High (as a parent) often (but not always) have b%&chy mothers. However there is one girl in 5th grade that has terrorized my daughter and this girl is a bully but the mother is super sweet and nice.

That article makes me sad. And I think kids today are much much meaner than when I was in school. And mean girls start young. I started seeing emergence in 3rd grade. With them really getting reared up in 5th grade and by Jr. High its full blown mean girl mode. I have not encountered high school yet but thats not far off.
 
What a disturbing article, I can''t believe a group of girls could be so callous about death. I wonder if they will ever wake up one day and realize what they contributed to, and actually feel remorse.
 
As the victim of many different groups of mean girls, I am not at all surprised.

And yes, the parents can have a lot to do with it. I have seen mean kids with really nice parents, but they''re rare. The girls that bullied me all had mean, b****y moms.
 
Those girls destroyed an entire family. SHAME on the girls and shame on the police and school who did nothing.
 
That is horrible. I used to go to university one town over. I googled the news and it seems that the police have finally taken action against two of the bullies.
 
I find these kinds of stories completely shattering. The fact that these "mean girls" would drive a person to the point to taking their own life, then mock her death and face little to no consequences and be proud of their actions baffles me. Where is their moral compass? I look at people like this and put them right up with the worst criminal offenders. Until these ones are slapped with real consequences for their actions, I don''t know that stories like this will go away.
 
So awful.
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How can these girls live with themselves?
 
Date: 1/26/2010 12:12:36 PM
Author: ladypirate
So awful.
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How can these girls live with themselves?
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I guess it''s easy when you don''t think you did anything wrong. I suspect it''s only later in life that they''ll really understand what this did, and their role in it.
 
That article made me sick. I feel so awful for the family of the girl. It gave me that awful feeling in the pit of my stomach and made my heart race and it made me wish I would be allowed to play “new student” at a certain high school in Mass. If that were *my* child being bullied, there would be some problems. I would go to the parents, the school, the paper, the police, a lawyer, I don’t care, anyone who would listen to my story. When it gets past the point of “nah nah nah boo boo stick your head in doo doo” of a 5 year old and into the realm of thinking about suicide, those kids need to be called to task and by hook or by crook, somebody needs to make it stop.

I’ve been bullied. I’ve been called names. I’ve been teased. And I’ve been to the point that I tried to kill myself. I will not allow that to happen to my child. If some ratfink teenager thinks they’re going to pull that kind of crap then I hope they can take it just as well as dish it.

As I got older I started thinking you know what this is ridiculous-“ignore them and they’ll stop” didn’t work, and I got mad. I found I could be just as mean as the ones who bullied me. I could be meaner. I fought back, and I didn’t care. I got sick of how a certain group seemed to run the school. I spent a lot of time in the Principal’s office, explaining my actions in defending myself and other kids. When a girl started saying horrible things about my brother, I got involved, and my Mom stepped in. My mom is a bear when it comes to defending her kids. My brother and I still tell stories now and again about things that happened in high school-he loves to hear about that girl who was so awful to him. JD thinks they’re hysterical b/c he can’t picture me being that way. I was the mean girl to the mean girls. And to the boys too, I just didn’t care.

I wasn’t alone in school like this girl seemed to be. That’s sad. I had friends, and my brother, and we knew Mom would be there. Ours was a super small school, so it wasn’t like a group of several girls following and taunting all the time. Kids like that (and adults too) feed off the power they get by stepping on other people, and if teachers/parents don’t put the kibosh on it, it just escalates. If the ones being stepped on could see that if they don’t allow themselves to be stepped on, then there’s no power to be had by the bullies. I know it’s not that easy tho.
 
Date: 1/26/2010 1:15:20 PM
Author: packrat
That article made me sick. I feel so awful for the family of the girl. It gave me that awful feeling in the pit of my stomach and made my heart race and it made me wish I would be allowed to play “new student” at a certain high school in Mass. If that were *my* child being bullied, there would be some problems. I would go to the parents, the school, the paper, the police, a lawyer, I don’t care, anyone who would listen to my story. When it gets past the point of “nah nah nah boo boo stick your head in doo doo” of a 5 year old and into the realm of thinking about suicide, those kids need to be called to task and by hook or by crook, somebody needs to make it stop.

I’ve been bullied. I’ve been called names. I’ve been teased. And I’ve been to the point that I tried to kill myself. I will not allow that to happen to my child. If some ratfink teenager thinks they’re going to pull that kind of crap then I hope they can take it just as well as dish it.

As I got older I started thinking you know what this is ridiculous-“ignore them and they’ll stop” didn’t work, and I got mad. I found I could be just as mean as the ones who bullied me. I could be meaner. I fought back, and I didn’t care. I got sick of how a certain group seemed to run the school. I spent a lot of time in the Principal’s office, explaining my actions in defending myself and other kids. When a girl started saying horrible things about my brother, I got involved, and my Mom stepped in. My mom is a bear when it comes to defending her kids. My brother and I still tell stories now and again about things that happened in high school-he loves to hear about that girl who was so awful to him. JD thinks they’re hysterical b/c he can’t picture me being that way. I was the mean girl to the mean girls. And to the boys too, I just didn’t care.

I wasn’t alone in school like this girl seemed to be. That’s sad. I had friends, and my brother, and we knew Mom would be there. Ours was a super small school, so it wasn’t like a group of several girls following and taunting all the time. Kids like that (and adults too) feed off the power they get by stepping on other people, and if teachers/parents don’t put the kibosh on it, it just escalates. If the ones being stepped on could see that if they don’t allow themselves to be stepped on, then there’s no power to be had by the bullies. I know it’s not that easy tho.
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your story reinforces my reaction: these girls won''t get the point until their peers gang up and beat the shit out of them. its the only thing bullies understand. until that happens they will think its cute, they''re getting away with something, and they''ll continue this behavior until someone does beat the shit out of them. sorry to seem so violent because i''m not. but bullies only understand one thing and calling the law in on them is limited at best and just reinforces them when they get away with it.

mz
 
I never really thought of myself as a violent person either. Once I hit my Sophomore year I''d had enough. I remember being in the Principal''s office and being asked "What are you doing?" like he just couldn''t understand why I was so angry, and asking back "What are *you* doing?"

What happens when kids and teenagers, who already feel like adults don''t "get it" and don''t understand what it''s like to be young, look to help from adults and find it''s not there? Heck, even if they don''t ask for help, it should be a given that it''s already on its way. What does that tell kids when adults see things and turn the other cheek? When the adults in your life don''t seem to care about you, what are you left with?
 
I have a daughter entering middle school next year and I feel sick to my stomach after reading that.
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I tell her all the time that you can''t control what other people think of you or what they say.
I tell her that home is a safe place and that we love her no matter what, and to save all of her tears for us.
I tell her that her body and her face are just the wrapping paper. The real gift is on the inside.
I have been telling her this for years, hoping I''ve built a healthy foundation for her self esteem so that she can possibly endure jr high/ high school.
Still, I am terrified.
Why are girls so mean?
 
Date: 1/26/2010 8:32:32 PM
Author: packrat
I never really thought of myself as a violent person either. Once I hit my Sophomore year I''d had enough. I remember being in the Principal''s office and being asked ''What are you doing?'' like he just couldn''t understand why I was so angry, and asking back ''What are *you* doing?''

What happens when kids and teenagers, who already feel like adults don''t ''get it'' and don''t understand what it''s like to be young, look to help from adults and find it''s not there? Heck, even if they don''t ask for help, it should be a given that it''s already on its way. What does that tell kids when adults see things and turn the other cheek? When the adults in your life don''t seem to care about you, what are you left with?
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this is is so sad........i''m glad you got mad and took them on despite the adults. actually, it sounds like you had to take the adults on, too. but you did. and you''ll never be anyone''s emotional punching bag again.
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mz
 
This is so sad, it makes me literally sick to my stomach. It reminds me a lot of my highschool days, but it NEVER got that bad for me.

I have arguments (good natured) with my DH over parenting philosophies. He is a ''fighter'', I am definitely not! I''ve tried to tell him time and time again that I want my children to walk away from a fight. But you know what? If someone was doing this to my child, or even if my child observed such horrible treatment of another student, I''d want my kid to FIGHT BACK. Detentions be damned. You can''t just stand around and let this happen.

I can''t imagine if this happened to my little girl. I hope the mean girls get the punishment they deserve.
 
As a kid, I was tormented by a certain individual from between 3rd and 6th grade. I got so sick of it that in 4th grade I asked my mom if I can go live with my aunt so I can go to school with my cousins. Well, they lived in an apartment so after the lease was up, I had to move back with my mom to the same school that I was trying to run from. When I got there it was even worse and it seemed like this one pint sized individual was queen B of the school. When my aunt moved into a house I asked my mom if I can go live with her again and my mom said ok (My mom did whatever she could to make me happy about the situation.) So around 5-6 grade I got to go to another school with my cousins and I loved it until my aunt had to move. Well, you knew what came next. I had just literally a few months to go until I graduated elementary and I had to go back to that dreadful place again. So, I moved in with my mom and she sat down and had a talk with me and told me to let her know next time that girl says anything or does anything. So of course, I came back and this time I came back with a little more attitude that the mean girl had thought I had in me. She had the teachers wrapped around her finger and not in a good way. She wasn't a goodie goodie at all. She was rude to the teachers but back then, the teachers did nothing. So one day we were getting in line to go to recess and not everyone was in line. She was in the front of the line and I was in the back of the line (go figure) and she was hushing everyone and telling them to get in line because the teacher said we wouldn't be able to go outside if we weren't in perfect order. So she got all of the kids to line up, all of them. I was the last one and I was against the wall yet in line not hurting anyone. The mean girl comes up to me and yells in my face to get in line and face forward. I told her that she wasn't the teacher and she got angry because I had never said anything back to her the teacher even looked surprised. We got to go outside and of course as soon as the doors shut, there is no teacher to be found. So her and her clan make a circle around me. Around this time I've had enough. She comes up to me and hit me on my nose with her palm, and I took it. I didn't hit her back. I felt like I would show her that I can take it without her seeing my pain. She looked at me and walked away. Later that day I told my mom and she went to the principal's office and had complained, I sh*t you not, she came in as soon as we sat down to give the principal some papers and then left. I showed my mom who she was. She looked at me and said that's her? She was small but fiesty. So the principal didn't do crap because she had him wrapped around her finger too. Come Jr. High, it was a different story. My mom sat down and had a long talk with me about people like her. That some people grow up differently or in different circumstances than others and that's why they act out. I just thought that was of no excuse. Well, the first day of Jr. High school, I seen her. Weird, she tried to make friends with me. I saw her get into her little clan and she came back to being evil. She tried to say something to me and I said, I remember to this day, I said, "You know what, (her name), this isn't elementary school anymore so if you want to do something, do it and I will handle it right back". She looked at me and just walked away. She can dish it but she can't take it. It felt like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. I kid you not, she left that jr. high school a couple days afterwards. Did I do what was best? In my eyes, yes, maybe late but I did it. I stuck up for myself. Could I have had help from my teachers and principal, yes definately.

All and all, mean girls and mean boys are the people I feel sorry for most. They don't have to be that way, they can change that but they don't. I wish that Phoebe had help before she took her life. I think those girls should have something brought against them in court, but I know that won't happen. Sorry for this huge story but it made me hurt and brought me back to a place that I have wanted to forget. Again thank you for telling us this story. Phoebe is in a better place where there is no evil.
 
I wish more parents were more involved in their kids lives, beyond "How was your day at school?" "Fine" "Okay".

I know sometimes kids don''t want parents involved b/c it might make it worse..but if the other kids parents and the school admin are doing their job properly, there''s no reason for a situation to become worse. Nip the crap in the butt before it gets out of hand, otherwise, the kids are left to their own devices, and generally it''s not going to turn out well.

Haha, I remember mom storming into the school on numerous occasions b/c she''d gotten a call from the Superintendent or Principal that my brother or I had done something in retaliation, and she finally pointed out to them that unless they wanted a hefty lawsuit against the entire school system, they better get the problem fixed. She raised us to turn the other cheek and ignore the meanness, so if it had escalated to the point that we felt we had no alternative, it had gone on long enough. She told them that until that point, we''d been getting in trouble at home for standing up for ourselves as harshly as we were-we were supposed to live by "ignore them and they''ll stop" and let the teachers take care of it, and none of that had worked. She told them flat out not to call her anymore because as of that moment, she was done reigning in her kids when it was quite obvious that her kids were the *only* kids being reigned in.

School after that was..interesting
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I am so saddened to read of so many of you being teased, and the long term results of these situations.

I work with high school students so really wonder what it is that teachers are supposed to do. Yes, in Elem school, there should be teachers on the playground, but in the hallways when students are older, on their facebook accounts, out at the mall, when kids are driving around town, what can schools and teachers do to prevent teasing?

At some point though, I wonder about how teasing does have an impact on young women. Personally, I can''t remember a thing about elementary school other than doing crafts. How can we help young women develop more resilience, strength, and self confidence? Educators want to do this desperately...but we only get them for a few hours a day. I agree with Carats, it is truly terrifying, but sounds like you have been working really hard at helping your daughter to develop the tools to deal with whatever situation life hands her.
 
I think feeling like you have an ally helps. It just takes ONE adult in an authority role to listen and say hey, that''s not right, what can we do to change this. When it''s an occasional now and again thing, couple kids playing keep away w/someone''s backpack or whatever, that''s not necessarily something to call in the troops about. But when an adult notices it''s the SAME kids being teased day in and day out by the SAME kids..there''s an issue that needs to be addressed b/c when they keep getting away with it, they get bolder, and the kid being pushed around gets meeker.

When I was in Junior High, we had a teacher who did not like my group of friends. At all. We could hear her "whisper" loudly to other kids about us, and laugh, and smile when they would laugh too. Things kept on and kept on. Granted, when we retaliated it wasn''t in the smartest way but ya know, we were in 7th grade-she was an adult. We basically fueled the fire and made it worse. We finally, in 8th grade, went to the Principal about it, and he really *talked* to us and listened to us. He started watching and listening and asking questions all stealthy-like of other student and teachers. When we came back from summer break as Freshman, she was teaching the little kids. When I asked him about it, he said they talked and agreed that if she was to keep teaching there, it would be to the younger grades. He was also one of our teachers in Junior High, and during class one day (after we''d talked to him) he decided we were going to skip the book lesson and have a "talk". His talk was about teasing, bullying, starting rumors and about people being different from you. Boy oh boy did we get the glares from the other kids in class...but we knew then we finally had someone who would stand up for us.

That made a HUGE difference, for me.
 
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