Making the final choice on a rock

[Rookiering]

Hey All,

Really appreciate all of your expertise and input on my situation.I've spent the better part of a month researching and narrowing down my criteria for a rock for my girlfriend which is now:

Cut - Best available (Signature Ideal etc)
Colour - G or H
Clarity - VS1 or VS2 (clean to the naked eye though)
Carat - ~1.3 - 1.4

I'm from Australia and given our dollar is equivalent to the US dollar at the moment, my aussie dollar budget of $12,000 should match up with the retail price online in US dollars. (There is then an additional 15% of taxes for us in Australia).

So far I feel that bluenile offers a lot more options and value than whiteflash (from what I've seen), but today when I browsed these forums I noticed b2cjewels seems to be another option that is fairly well regarded?

Given I'm buying a fairly pricey ring I want to feel comfortable that the website is reputable and that I'll get what I pay for, so I'm hoping to hear some feedback on b2cjewels and also input on some potential options out there in the market at the moment.

Thanks all!

 

[Rookiering]

It also seems that particular sites would seem to put a premium on rocks purchased through them?

B2Cjewels have this available with a great HCA score: http://b2cjewels.com/dd-3467929-1.30-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS1-clarity.aspx

Bluenile have almost identical specs here but with a poorer HCA score: http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-search?track=NavEngLoo#diamonds_pid=LD02608123

Yet the B2Cjewels rock is $10.7k whereas bluenile lists at $12.8k.....

 

[04diamond<3]

I wouldn't recommend either of them because they don't have pictures or any other information you'd need. I'd suggest this:

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.22-carat-G-color-VS2-clarity-Ideal-cut-sku-73772

JA also offers PS members a discount on their stones, so I'd put this on hold and ask for the price.

or this:

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.21-carat-E-color-VS2-clarity-Ideal-cut-sku-73702 or this:

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.30-carat-I-color-VVS2-clarity-Ideal-cut-sku-164428

one more:

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.50-carat-E-color-SI1-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-198362

If you like this one, put it on hold and request an idealscope image. The others already have them, so this is the only one of these you'd need it for.

 

[Rookiering]

Sorry - to be clear, I'm going for a round diamond and will have the rock 'set' once it arrives in Australia, with a jeweller.

 

[pavejewelers]

It also seems that particular sites would seem to put a premium on rocks purchased through them?

B2Cjewels have this available with a great HCA score: http://b2cjewels.com/dd-3467929-1.30-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS1-clarity.aspx

Bluenile have almost identical specs here but with a poorer HCA score: http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-search?track=NavEngLoo#diamonds_pid=LD02608123

Yet the B2Cjewels rock is $10.7k whereas bluenile lists at $12.8k.....

, but its not a true vs1 IMO. There shouldn't be a crystal, cloud, and feather located in the center for a stone that is graded VERY SLIGHTLY included 1 -- does that make sense?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I believe that B2C will obtain the stone and provide a picture and either an idealscope image or ASET image. That does appear to be a good price. Most of their stones are virtual so that is probably how they keep low prices.

I believe you don't have to worry about a GIA graded VS1! I think it is amazing someone would challenge GIA grading without seeing the stone!

 

[Rookiering]

Thanks for your comments so far...I understand what you mean, although both rocks seem to have inclusions in the centre of them - which still makes me wonder why there should be a roughly $2,000 pricing difference

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks for your comments so far...I understand what you mean, although both rocks seem to have inclusions in the centre of them - which still makes me wonder why there should be a roughly $2,000 pricing difference

If you look long enough, you can find a stone listed with multiple vendors for various prices. Stones vary in price from the cutters. The rough is bought at different times and at different prices. So prices will vary. That's why it pays to shop! However, I will only buy if the vendor provides the magnified photo of the stone and an idealscope image so you can be sure there isn't leakage.

 

[pavejewelers]

I believe that B2C will obtain the stone and provide a picture and either an idealscope image or ASET image. That does appear to be a good price. Most of their stones are virtual so that is probably how they keep low prices.

I believe you don't have to worry about a GIA graded VS1! I think it is amazing someone would challenge GIA grading without seeing the stone!

Recently, I haven't been impressed with the grading for new goods. Genuinely speaking.... Vs1 stones with center inclusions just don't make sense to me, no matter if they are located near the culet.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Oh, and you may want to choose a couple more from B2C's inventory as long as you are requesting the images.

 

[pavejewelers]

Thanks for your comments so far...I understand what you mean, although both rocks seem to have inclusions in the centre of them - which still makes me wonder why there should be a roughly $2,000 pricing difference

If you look long enough, you can find a stone listed with multiple vendors for various prices. Stones vary in price from the cutters. The rough is bought at different times and at different prices. So prices will vary. That's why it pays to shop! However, I will only buy if the vendor provides the magnified photo of the stone and an idealscope image so you can be sure there isn't leakage.

Definitely agree with you here.... If you're buying off of paper, these at two absolute requirements.

 

[Rookiering]

Thanks for your comments so far...I understand what you mean, although both rocks seem to have inclusions in the centre of them - which still makes me wonder why there should be a roughly $2,000 pricing difference

If you look long enough, you can find a stone listed with multiple vendors for various prices. Stones vary in price from the cutters. The rough is bought at different times and at different prices. So prices will vary. That's why it pays to shop! However, I will only buy if the vendor provides the magnified photo of the stone and an idealscope image so you can be sure there isn't leakage.

This may be a rookie question but are particular online shops not able to provide these magnified photos and idealscope images? e.g Blue Nile, B2C, JA, Whiteflash?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I believe that B2C will obtain the stone and provide a picture and either an idealscope image or ASET image. That does appear to be a good price. Most of their stones are virtual so that is probably how they keep low prices.

I believe you don't have to worry about a GIA graded VS1! I think it is amazing someone would challenge GIA grading without seeing the stone!

Recently, I haven't been impressed with the grading for new goods. Genuinely speaking.... Vs1 stones with center inclusions just don't make sense to me, no matter if they are located near the culet.

The good thing is, if the store calls in the stone to photograph it, they will inspect it for him. It would be alarming for a VS1 not to be eyeclean!

Blue Nile provides nothing and that is why I don't look for diamonds on their site. James Allen will, although sometimes it takes a few days, WhiteFlash has images for all their in-house stones and so does Good Old Gold. The last two are where I have bought my diamonds because they provide the most info on the stones.

 

[pavejewelers]

I'm not saying the stone is it eye clean, I am saying a vs1 plot should not normally have centre based inclusions.

 

[Rookiering]

What do you guys think of this rock. Do you think it's overpriced at $12.9k? 1.32ct, G, VS1, ex ex ex

http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-search?track=NavEngLoo#diamonds_pid=LD03065561

 

[Rookiering]

I've put a hold order on this rock: http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-search?track=NavEngLoo#diamonds_pid=LD03065561

As per the above it's $12.9k (1.32ct, G, VS2, ex ex ex). Any opinions on price / the quality of it?

 

[JulieN]

13K is pretty high... but it is G VS1. You could prob do an H VS2 for around 10K... and not sure how many people would be able to tell the difference.

Just some examples.. http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-H-color-VS2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-197198
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.33-carat-G-color-VS2-clarity-sku-198873

 

[sakari_8]

I think their are several stones out their and several companies showing same stones, since all the stores have different strategies
in pricing, it make sense to try the store which is cheaper in price. B2C Jewels, Jamesallen, Bluenile, White flash all the stores are
good and highly recommended, B2C Jewels do provide Images like ASET & Ideal Scope on request, since the price is so attractive, I would
check with them if they can provide the Images, I think it will help you.

 

[Rookiering]

13K is pretty high... but it is G VS1. You could prob do an H VS2 for around 10K... and not sure how many people would be able to tell the difference.

Just some examples.. http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-H-color-VS2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-197198
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.33-carat-G-color-VS2-clarity-sku-198873

Is the best measurement of whether or not a rock is going to sparkle / have high light return and fire etc based on the HCA calculator?

I mean - if I can save $3k and have no visual difference when the rock is sitting on my girl's finger then I guess the question in my mind is why would I spend $3k more.

 

[Rookiering]

At the moment it feels like the more research I do, the harder it is to make a decision and settle on just one rock. Whenever I get close to making a decision it seems there's a better option out there (potentially such as dropping $3k and getting another rock that will look no different in reality, but will save $3k).

 

[Rookiering]

One additional question for anyone still following this thread. I checked the specs of this rock against the hearts and arrows characteristics and the crown angle, pavilliion angle, table, and lower girdle halves all match what the Hearts and arrows website list as 'characteristics' that define their stones.

Does that make this rock (for all intents and purposes) a hearts and arrows rock?

 

[JulieN]

No.. you need hearts images.

 

[alma123]

At the moment it feels like the more research I do, the harder it is to make a decision and settle on just one rock. Whenever I get close to making a decision it seems there's a better option out there (potentially such as dropping $3k and getting another rock that will look no different in reality, but will save $3k).

I totally understand what you're going through. This is a long post to I'll put my recommendation first: H color, VS2/SI1 clarity, excellent cut (low HCA score with good IdealScope image)

Color: I recommend H. You are paying a high premium for G color and to a normal person (non-diamond enthusiast) an H is white, especially by itself (as opposed to being compared to another higher color diamond). Some people see I and J as white, although people who are color sensitive will not enjoy I or J.

Clarity: I recommend VS2 or SI1. All VS2 diamonds are eye-clean. If you are buying from a vendor who you cannot trust to be accurate (ie vendors with mostly virtual stones that they don't see the diamond in person like B2C and BlueNile) and you want to be absolutely sure that you're getting a white eye-clean stone, then VS2 is the way to go. For other vendors like GOG, Brian Gavin, or James Allen, they actually see the stone in person before and can tell you truthfully whether or not the stone is eye-clean. For these vendors I recommend SI1. The majority of SI1 is eye-clean. You may even be lucky enough to find an eye-clean SI2 but the majority of SI2 is not eye-clean.

Cut: HCA is also a good tool to predict diamond performance, and it's super easy. I prefer HCA < 3 or 4. If you're buying a GIA or AGS excellent cut, then chances are you are not getting an ugly stone. I would not buy a Very Good cut stone even if it has a low HCA score without an IdealScope image.

Price: GOG, Brian Gavin, and Whiteflash to me are premium vendors. They have extremely well cut stones, a lot of services (IS and ASET images, Sarin reports) and great customer service, but I find them to be priced higher than other vendors. I am a fan of James Allen because JA is very reasonably priced, offers IS upon requests, and also have great customer service. Not all JA stones are beautiful, but you will have no trouble finding a nice stone at JA.

If you want to save even more and go to vendors like B2C or Blue Nile, then you have to be comfortable with not getting an IdealScope. I want the diamond I buy to be a top performing diamond-- and a beautiful IS image assures me that I'm getting the best of what's available to me. If I was buying in person I probably wouldn't need it, but since I can't visually compare my diamond to a bunch of others, I like the IS tool. Perhaps it's more a mind-cleanness to me because as I mentioned before, most GIA excellent cuts are not going to be ugly stones. If you are buying a stone loose and *really* want an IS image, then you can even buy the IdealScope machine for $25 and examine your B2C or BN diamond with it, which may very well be worth it.

I also find that B2C has poor customer service (I can't get them to respond to a request, much less IdealScope image) but some people have had better luck than I have. I have no experience with Blue Nile and both companies seem to offer good return policies. Sorry for the long post, I hope this makes it easier for you to narrow down and make your decision.

 

[Rookiering]

At the moment it feels like the more research I do, the harder it is to make a decision and settle on just one rock. Whenever I get close to making a decision it seems there's a better option out there (potentially such as dropping $3k and getting another rock that will look no different in reality, but will save $3k).

I totally understand what you're going through. This is a long post to I'll put my recommendation first: H color, VS2/SI1 clarity, excellent cut (low HCA score with good IdealScope image)

Color: I recommend H. You are paying a high premium for G color and to a normal person (non-diamond enthusiast) an H is white, especially by itself (as opposed to being compared to another higher color diamond). Some people see I and J as white, although people who are color sensitive will not enjoy I or J.

Clarity: I recommend VS2 or SI1. All VS2 diamonds are eye-clean. If you are buying from a vendor who you cannot trust to be accurate (ie vendors with mostly virtual stones that they don't see the diamond in person like B2C and BlueNile) and you want to be absolutely sure that you're getting a white eye-clean stone, then VS2 is the way to go. For other vendors like GOG, Brian Gavin, or James Allen, they actually see the stone in person before and can tell you truthfully whether or not the stone is eye-clean. For these vendors I recommend SI1. The majority of SI1 is eye-clean. You may even be lucky enough to find an eye-clean SI2 but the majority of SI2 is not eye-clean.

Cut: HCA is also a good tool to predict diamond performance, and it's super easy. I prefer HCA < 3 or 4. If you're buying a GIA or AGS excellent cut, then chances are you are not getting an ugly stone. I would not buy a Very Good cut stone even if it has a low HCA score without an IdealScope image.

Price: GOG, Brian Gavin, and Whiteflash to me are premium vendors. They have extremely well cut stones, a lot of services (IS and ASET images, Sarin reports) and great customer service, but I find them to be priced higher than other vendors. I am a fan of James Allen because JA is very reasonably priced, offers IS upon requests, and also have great customer service. Not all JA stones are beautiful, but you will have no trouble finding a nice stone at JA.

If you want to save even more and go to vendors like B2C or Blue Nile, then you have to be comfortable with not getting an IdealScope. I want the diamond I buy to be a top performing diamond-- and a beautiful IS image assures me that I'm getting the best of what's available to me. If I was buying in person I probably wouldn't need it, but since I can't visually compare my diamond to a bunch of others, I like the IS tool. Perhaps it's more a mind-cleanness to me because as I mentioned before, most GIA excellent cuts are not going to be ugly stones. If you are buying a stone loose and *really* want an IS image, then you can even buy the IdealScope machine for $25 and examine your B2C or BN diamond with it, which may very well be worth it.

I also find that B2C has poor customer service (I can't get them to respond to a request, much less IdealScope image) but some people have had better luck than I have. I have no experience with Blue Nile and both companies seem to offer good return policies. Sorry for the long post, I hope this makes it easier for you to narrow down and make your decision.

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide so much of your own personal insight. It's always interesting to hear different perspectives. In regard to the rock I have on hold ----http://www.bluenile.com/au/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-g-colour-vs1-clarity_LD03065561 ---- I've called up blue nile customer support and confirmed that the rock is indeed certified as eye clean. Also instead of an idealscope image, they provide a photomicrograph image as part of the GCAL report (If you click on the link you can see the image). I'd be interested to hear your feedback on the photos they provide.....?

The rock scores VERY HIGHLY on the HCA calculator 0.8, is an excellent cut, and every piece of diamond expertise / info I can get my hands on suggest that the particular angles and depths etc are close to what is considered 'perfect' for light return etc.

On that basis I'm 90% leaning towards choosing this rock (despite the fairly high $12,900 online price tag) - which will turn into $14,700 AUD once I add local import and goods tax.

Most other rocks I'm seeing out there don't come close to achieving the same HCA score, and in the end it's going to really bug me if I settle for something slightly less perfect just to save 1 or 2000 dollars....

 

[JulieN]

HCA .8 is actually NOT better than say... HCA 1.6. It comes down to personal preference but theoretically speaking HCA under under 1 may look a little darker or more contrasty.

 

[Rookiering]

HCA .8 is actually NOT better than say... HCA 1.6. It comes down to personal preference but theoretically speaking HCA under under 1 may look a little darker or more contrasty.

haha another spanner in the works. I had taken the assumption that the higher the HCA score, then the more sparkle and the more light return.

Better that I know this now, rather than after after I've parted with all the $$ though.

 

[Rookiering]

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful. I finally chose my rock on Friday and ended up going for a wholesaler in Sydney.

The specs were 1.41, G, VS2 ex, Vgood, ex. Paid $14.4k all up which was much cheaper than anything I could find online (or anywhere else for that matter).

 

[Rookiering]

$14.4k was in AUD by the way.

Some honest feedback for any other aussies browsing these forums, from my 2 - 3 months of fairly intensive research and shopping (online, retail and wholesale) I found that if you want a really high quality rock, then you will in most cases pay more online than you will if you find the right wholesaler(s) here in Sydney / Aust. Particularly when you calculate the GST and import duty you will have to pay for rocks purchased through overseas online shops.

In addition, the chance to see the rock for yourself at the wholesaler I found to have enormous value over the online option. To be spending up to $15k and not actually physically seeing what you're buying in front of you is just too much of a risk to take.