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Making a Master Ring for Casting (NEED YOUR HELP)

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cmelb

cmelb

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
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121
Have a question and a concern.

When a Jeweler makes a "Custom Master Ring for Casting in Platinum", does he make the Master Ring to the actual size or is this done later, as my jeweler who made a Master Ring for Caster made it almost 2 sizes smaller so my partner really couldn''t see how it looked on her finger.

When I confronted him why it was 2 sizes smaller he told me he doesn''t have to answer that question, and said he would take a small amount off the inside when its returned from Casting to make it fit her.


Is this right??


He is getting the ring Castered in two pieces that way he can get a finer polish and then join the 2 remaining together.


When I spoke to him he told me he would be using white gold solder to solder the ring together, when I asked him why he said that there was no Platinum solder.

I think this was a LIE so he could use the simple way out and use White gold solder instead of Platinum solder as he hasn''t got the tools to solder Platinum, then after I told him they do have solder for Platinum he returned my call and said it wouldn''t be a problem to solder it in Platinum Solder, but was still pushing white gold solder on me.

I don''t want the ring rhodium plated, and I have a feeling that he wont use Platinum Solder and he will use White Gold Solder.


What should I do ??


I have also sent off a email to Platinumsmith down here in Melb to see what his reply will be as I have great concerns for the finish of this ring and feel like I''m being ripped off.


The type of ring that I''m getting castered at the moment is similar to the one on whiteflash''s website
http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/Platinum-X-Prong-for-Princess_982.htm
Its for my Asscher Diamond.

I need your help and opinion on this,

 
do not deal with this guy.
he is having a mold made in stock size then sizing it up for you and charging you for it.
No way id go for that.. never...
White gold solder wont match plat.
find someone else asap.
Platinumsmith does good work and is a much better option.
 
Do you think it would be a good idea if I got the Platinum untouched from the jeweller when he gets it back from Casting and take it to the Platinumsmith down here so he can finish it off.

As I have already spent money and I feel like Im pooring bad money after bad money, he also has my diamond which I will need to get back.

Also am I right in saying when you get a custom made ring for casting that it should be made exactly to the persons ring size??
 
Get your diamond back make up an excuse ... Storm is right about getting stock pieces and passing them off as custom-- AND make sure you check it''s incusions against your cert IN THE STORE. If you gave the guy a deposit-- if it''s on a credit card tell him to reverse the charges... if he gives you hell about it say you are paying for a CUSTOM setting cast in one peice and what he''s doing isn''t that... and if he''s still difficult about it dispute it through your credit card. If you didn''t pay with a card (ALWAYS PAY WITH A CARD-- protection, protection, protection... you can pay the card off as soon as you get the bill-- no interest).
 
I''d run from this guy. It''s raising all my red flags. Contact the guy Storm mentioned and have him do the work for you. Good luck!!
2.gif
 
Date: 6/17/2006 12:57:40 AM
Author: cmelb
Do you think it would be a good idea if I got the Platinum untouched from the jeweller when he gets it back from Casting and take it to the Platinumsmith down here so he can finish it off.


As I have already spent money and I feel like Im pooring bad money after bad money, he also has my diamond which I will need to get back.


Also am I right in saying when you get a custom made ring for casting that it should be made exactly to the persons ring size??
Click to expand...


yes it should be done in the right size.
Platinumsmith would be nutz to touch it with a 10ft pole.
sorry get your money and your diamond and bail out.
 
Thats what im going to do first thing Monday Morning, is get my diamond back, this is a joke I cant beleive that I didnt go to Platinsmith down here in Melb in the first place.

I knew something was wrong, but he was intimadating and everything was a effort for him. I went and saw other jewellers who make Platuinum Jewllery and they showed me everything they do, this guy is shonky.
 
shonky, huh? Ilike that...
3.gif
Is that Aussie for shady? Or a cross between shady and wonky? Want to be able to use it right...

I''ve got flip a Uey. And wingeing (have no IDEA how to spell that)... but would love to add to my collection for the next time I speak with my Aussie cousins.
 
It is ill advice to get the current jeweler to cast it and then give it to someone else to finish.


First off - platinum is what many of us call the "mystery metal". It''s full of surprises in the casting and finishing process, and sometimes the surprises are severe enough that it require a total remake of the item.

What can occur in the casting process can vary the quality of the item more than you''d like to know.

In a rough casting many times you cannot see porosity or defects in the casting till you start to finish it. The problem is if the second jeweler touches the item the first jeweler will blame what the second guy.

Secondly, I am not sure why the jeweler want to make the ring in two pieces. The platinum will be malable, but the solder will break with significant stress applied to it. Sometimes it is necessary to make a multiple piece casting, but this is an engineering "feat" to do this.

Thirdly, You also need to know about the alloy that will be used in the casting. Different alloys have different properties and affect the content purity of the platinum by volume.


Rockdoc
 
shonky

adjective AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH INFORMAL


of low quality
 
Storm-- I seriously don''t know why I ask anyone but you anything-- seriously. You are so good about finding things out and processing information, and stuff. I''m lazy... and well... none too bright.
2.gif
You''re a marvel!
 
Date: 6/17/2006 1:44:54 AM
Author: Gypsy
Storm-- I seriously don''t know why I ask anyone but you anything-- seriously. You are so good about finding things out and processing information, and stuff. I''m lazy... and well... none too bright.
2.gif
You''re a marvel!
Click to expand...
Gypsy, Oh geez, that''s all we need is for his head to get any bigger, LOL!!!!
3.gif

Yup, he sure knows a lot. Just busting on him, that''s my job!!!
31.gif
 
Shonky, meaning Bad workmanship. Just another slang word.

The reason he said it needs to be done in two peaces and not one is so he can polish it better, as there are tight spots in the ring where he really wont be able to get a good polish if it was cast as one complete ring.

I just called Platinumsmith regarding this and he would have no problems in finishing it off. I just dont trust this guy with the Platinum solder as he said to me once that there was no such thing as Platinum solder and later when I confronted him about it, he said yes there is and it wouldnt be a problem to join the 2 with Platinum Solder.

Also most of the jewellers that cast down here as I''ve been to many Jewellers now just to arm myself with as much info as possible so when I talk to him I know what Im saying, and most of them agree that yes casting sometimes in 2 peaces is better for a finer polish then just solder the shank and head together.

Even Platinsmith in one of his posts wrote this also, that casting the shank seperate from the head is better so you can get a better polish and then just solder it up.
 
My othere option, is to get the current jewller to polish the Platinum when he gets it back from Casting, and get my diamond back asap and once he has polished it then maybe take it to platinumsmith to solder it and clean it up.

That way I know that the Cast is good before making final payment and Im sure I would be able to see if the platinum was cast good or bad from the final polish.

What do you think. As Platinsmith uses the same person to cast his rings sometimes and refered me to them so I could tell my jeweller to get it Cast there as they dont use any Cobalt in there Casting's.
 
Date: 6/17/2006 1:50:05 AM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 6/17/2006 1:44:54 AM
Author: Gypsy
Storm-- I seriously don''t know why I ask anyone but you anything-- seriously. You are so good about finding things out and processing information, and stuff. I''m lazy... and well... none too bright.
2.gif
You''re a marvel!
Click to expand...
Gypsy, Oh geez, that''s all we need is for his head to get any bigger, LOL!!!!
3.gif

Yup, he sure knows a lot. Just busting on him, that''s my job!!!
31.gif
Click to expand...
LOL Kaleigh. Yeah... but I feel for the guy with his tooth and all... the bigger the head... the worse the ache! So you know what... your doing him a service by busting on him... keeping his head to normal levels. Thus... managing his pain. It''s wonky logic... maybe even... shonky logic... but whatever works.
26.gif


Actually the reason for this reaction was a left-over memory of the cooties thing... he posted A LINK to a dictionary with the cutest pic of a cootie. I wanted cooties! LOL.
 
Date: 6/17/2006 2:17:02 AM
Author: Gypsy
Date: 6/17/2006 1:50:05 AM

Author: Kaleigh


Date: 6/17/2006 1:44:54 AM

Author: Gypsy

Storm-- I seriously don''t know why I ask anyone but you anything-- seriously. You are so good about finding things out and processing information, and stuff. I''m lazy... and well... none too bright.
2.gif
You''re a marvel!
Click to expand...
Gypsy, Oh geez, that''s all we need is for his head to get any bigger, LOL!!!!
3.gif


Yup, he sure knows a lot. Just busting on him, that''s my job!!!
31.gif
Click to expand...
LOL Kaleigh. Yeah... but I feel for the guy with his tooth and all... the bigger the head... the worse the ache! So you know what... your doing him a service by busting on him... keeping his head to normal levels. Thus... managing his pain. It''s wonky logic... maybe even... shonky logic... but whatever works.
26.gif



Actually the reason for this reaction was a left-over memory of the cooties thing... he posted A LINK to a dictionary with the cutest pic of a cootie. I wanted cooties! LOL.
Click to expand...


LOL
speaking of the stupid tooth some sleep would be nice but it aint gonna happen.
 
Sleep? What''s that? I forgot to go to the pharmacy... and insomiac that I am... can''t sleep without my medication. Oh well... it''s not like I have clean the whole house tommorow (with DF minimal help cause his back is OUT)... or cook dinner for FMIL and DF''s Grandfather for Father''s day. Oy. DF can cook. I''m barely gonna be able to function. And that''s IF I fall asleep before 5am.
 
Dont worry I cant sleep either.

If anyone does solder your Platinum rings with white gold solder, can that white gold solder be removed or unsoldered on Platinum rings and can a Platinum Smith resolder it correctly with Platinum Solder ??
 
Oh hon. Please. Just ditch this guy. Go to the jeweler Storm suggested... you'll be much happier.
2.gif


If this guy does do it in White Gold and you asked SPECIFICALLY for platinum.. are you going to pay him for the setting... take it someplace else... and pay them to fix it? Get it done right the first time. Please. She's worth it.
 
I will have a talk with the jeweller again on Monday.

Is there anyway you can tell if some other type of solder other then Platinum was used to solder the ring ??

As he told me now he would use the Platinum Solder that contains 95% PLT Solder the ring, and it has a lower melting temp and will stay as white as the platinum and I want to make sure he does what he told me and not just words.
 

#1 Making it in two parts and assembling later is often an entirely reasonable plan for exactly the reason described. This part of the story makes sense.


#2 “I don’t have to answer that question.”
What kind of response is that? I already dislike this guy and it’s only the second sentence! Even if it were a stupid question, which it’s not, he should politely and accurately address your concerns.

#3. The sizing thing is a goofy explanation. It’s both better and way easier to make it the right size in the first place. It may be a stock wax, it may be that he just screwed up and made it the wrong size but either way it’s his problem, not yours and either way, the best time to fix it is in the wax before sending it to casting.


#4. Yes there is platinum solder. No, it’s not 95% platinum. Yes, it’s easy to tell the difference between white gold and platinum if you know what you're looking for. He’s telling you what he wants you to hear and is making it up as he goes. Removing white gold solder and redoing it with platinum is hard. ANY capable platinumsmith knows this stuff. Most will have 4 or 5 different recipes of solder on their bench for use in different situations. They may not know the exact recipe but the important difference for them is the melting temperature. This stuff is expensive and it represents a serious investment for the jeweler to tool up to do this kind of work properly. It’s out of the question that he didn’t know platinum solders even existed if he had done this.


#5 The polishing step is critical, it can be time consuming (which means expensive), and inexperienced platinum workers almost never get it right. It’s simply not the same as working with gold. It has a lot to do with the original wax and the quality of the casting but it has even more to do with the tools, skills and patience of the craftsman. Changing jewelers in the middle of a project is a source of lots of potential problems because they can point to each other at the end and say any problem is the other guy’s fault. If you’re going to do this, the best time to make the switch is when it’s wax, before it’s cast. If you’re going to end up starting over, do it soon. If the casting is unfinished and there is no white gold or other contaminant on it, the caster can recycle it fairly easily. You’re going to be paying a penalty for this, but it’s way less if you make your decision BEFORE someone starts finishing and setting stones.


Neil Beaty
GG(IGA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Cool!

I stand corrected. See what happens when you retire from the bench for a few years? Things keep changing. PM West makes fine solders and I''m confident these will be good as well.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

They are also available here in Australia, from Easy, Medium, Hard. Set by the temperature that they Melt at.


http://www.apecs.com.au/conversionchar/solder.htm


And there are many others available here on the market by different manufactures.

 
I think you will find that the regular platinum solder is only called platinum solder because it is designed for platinum.
 
Do you want to recreate an exact replica of a ring that has been branded by a company as it''s own, only to produce a similarly styled ring for less - that it may be worth more?

If so, do you Know that Tiffany are only - good designers and that any bench jeweller can beat their best at almost anything they do except the best machine made pieces?

May
 
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