looking to buy diamond tomorrow. pls help

[uncle dunkel]

Hey all, just found this site yesterday - a little late considering I am hoping to buy a ring tomorrow. I searched the FAQs but still have a few questions. First, I want to let you know that I am looking for an eye-clean (as defined elsewhere on these forums) for the best possible price. Looks like my carat size will be between 1.45 and 1.8 (based on budget). I am considering round, princess, and radiant. Here are the questions I have right now:

1. Color: I am planning on a platinum or white gold setting. Thus my belief is that I should buy an I or better diamond. Is that correct, or would J do the trick? I am not considering any Js right now, but doing do would allow me to increase carat.

2. Clarity: Can vendors be trusted when asked if an SI2 diamond is eye-clean? I am looking on Blue Nile, Whiteflash, and James Allen. About half the diamonds I am still considering are SI2.

3. Between round, princess, and radiant - are there going to be major differences in the visual size of diamonds?

4. I have yet to see radiant in person, does it have similair brillance to the princess? I ask because the asscher I saw in person did not.

5. I was also originally considering cushion, but was told that those cuts typically look smaller comparably, is that correct or should I still consider it.

Thanks in advance

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/9/2008 4:40:32 PM
Author:uncle dunkel
Hey all, just found this site yesterday - a little late considering I am hoping to buy a ring tomorrow. I searched the FAQs but still have a few questions. First, I want to let you know that I am looking for an eye-clean (as defined elsewhere on these forums) for the best possible price. Looks like my carat size will be between 1.45 and 1.8 (based on budget). I am considering round, princess, and radiant. Here are the questions I have right now:

1. Color: I am planning on a platinum or white gold setting. Thus my belief is that I should buy an I or better diamond. Is that correct, or would J do the trick? I am not considering any Js right now, but doing do would allow me to increase carat. It depends on what shape you end up with, a J colour can be fine in a well cut round but you may prefer to stick to a little higher in a radiant or princess, radiants can show more colour than rounds. See if you can look at some similarly graded, shape, size and cut quality diamonds to see what you like best. A J will usually still look very white in white metal.

2. Clarity: Can vendors be trusted when asked if an SI2 diamond is eye-clean? I am looking on Blue Nile, Whiteflash, and James Allen. About half the diamonds I am still considering are SI2. Whiteflash, James Allen and some of the other vendors have in house diamonds they can advise you on concerning this, I don't know if all BN's diamonds are in house for them to advise you on ' eyecleanliness.' If you want to buy a radiant or princess, I would advise working with vendors who stock in house diamonds who supply pics and other images such as ASET, otherwise you have no idea of what you are buying. You cannot buy a radiant or princess by numbers.

3. Between round, princess, and radiant - are there going to be major differences in the visual size of diamonds? Yes, but it depends on the cut qualities of the diamonds and the face up spread or size as to which looks bigger. Basically it is said that pears, marquise and oval can look largest for the weight. Rounds can also spread nicely for size, radiants and princess need individual evaluation.

4. I have yet to see radiant in person, does it have similair brillance to the princess? I ask because the asscher I saw in person did not. Step cuts such as Asschers can have a quieter look, still beautiful but perhaps not as flashy as other shapes. Cut quality again is crucial with radiants, a well cut one can be very beautiful and sparkly. Princess can also look lovely if well cut, that is the critical factor to concentrate on for a beautiful stone.

5. I was also originally considering cushion, but was told that those cuts typically look smaller comparably, is that correct or should I still consider it. Again it depends, a spready cushion may look a similar size or a bit larger to a well cut round for example, a deeper one may not, so you need to use actual comparisons.

I would say to think this through carefully before purchase as it sounds as if you are not sure of what shape to buy. A little time invested in research will be time well spent. Check out the vendors who stock in house diamonds of the shapes you are interested in, then see which one you like best and see what they can offer you. These guys are professional and incredibly knowledgeable, you would be well advised to make the most of their expertise.

www.whiteflash.com

www.winkjones.com

www.goodoldgold.com

www.engagementringsdirect.com ( Mark is good with cushions should you decide on that)

Thanks in advance

 

[uncle dunkel]

Thanks, you are right in that my thoughts are a little all over the place right now. Rushing b/c ideally I will have the ring a week from today, which doesn''t buy me much time. Unless I push back my timeframe, I''ve decided on either princess or radiant. That should help narrow things down.

That said, if I can''t evaluate these diamonds by the numbers, but am buying online, how do I evaluate? The pics I''ve seen will help me with clarity, but not with relative diamond size (meaning which looks larger carat weight aside). I''ll do a search on ASET

Also, regarding cut, BN and James Allen rate the diamonds by cut, but I don''t see a similar rating on whiteflash - advice?

Lastly, how much weight should eb put into whiteflash''s star rating system?

 

[:)]

Given you are in such a rush I would stick to either good old gold, whiteflash (their in house either ACA or expert selection line), or wink jones. That way you can get ASET images quickly to evaluate.

 

[stone-cold11]

Ditto. Also, if you are really in a rush and can''t decide by the deadline, choose a princess cut graded AGS0 cut by AGSL and you should be fine.

Do not trust vendor graded ideal cuts, the naming is quite loose unless it is associated with an AGS0 PR.

 

[honey22]

Date: 10/9/2008 5:21:08 PM
Author: uncle dunkel

Thanks, you are right in that my thoughts are a little all over the place right now. Rushing b/c ideally I will have the ring a week from today, which doesn''t buy me much time. Unless I push back my timeframe, I''ve decided on either princess or radiant. That should help narrow things down.

That said, if I can''t evaluate these diamonds by the numbers, but am buying online, how do I evaluate? The pics I''ve seen will help me with clarity, but not with relative diamond size (meaning which looks larger carat weight aside). I''ll do a search on ASET

Also, regarding cut, BN and James Allen rate the diamonds by cut, but I don''t see a similar rating on whiteflash - advice?

Lastly, how much weight should eb put into whiteflash''s star rating system?

I hope you aren''t deciding on those shapes due to your limited timeframe? I am not sure if I understand you correctly. Please don''t rush this purchase and end up with a shape she doesn''t like. It''s a very personal thing and I know I wouldn''t want anything other than a round for my ering, so I would def find out which shape she really loves or but the brakes on the ring purchasing until you are sure. If you are still not sure, I would suggest you purchasing from WF or GOG for example, who have great return and upgrade policies should your tastes not be exactly to hers

That said, if you are strapped for time and want to make things simple, you can''t go wrong with an AGS 000 Round or Princess. Whiteflash have a great range of ACAs which are their top cuts, branded stones in round or princess. They are guaranteed winners and you just need to pick one within your budget.

If you are still thinking of another shape, I would stronly recommend you contact a vendor directly with your budget and requirements and have them suggest some really well cut stones. You don''t want to try and pick a fancy shape (ie. radiant) on your own going by numbers with such a short time frame.

Good luck!!!

 

[:)]

Didn''t see much in Wink''s inventory meeting your criteria except for
http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?pid=63&lang=eng&sid%5B%5D=402&src=loupe

Here is Good Old Gold''s princess and radiant stock:
http://goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?shape=4112&resultsColumns=268435471

Whiteflash had no ACAs in your criteria but they did have 14 in the expert selection section. WF won''t let me link directly to that search but you can go to whiteflash.com and search the expert selection.

If you want to buy from BlueNile, ditto Stonecold - get an AGS 0 - I only see one right now...
http://www.bluenile.com/princess-cut-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-i-color-vs2-clarity_LD00368518?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

 

[stone-cold11]

WOW! BN is really something, to label an AGS0 graded PR as just good cut??? What kind of metrics are they using anyway???

 

[:)]

Date: 10/9/2008 5:49:49 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
WOW! BN is really something, to label an AGS0 graded PR as just good cut??? What kind of metrics are they using anyway???

I noted that too!

 

[CharmyPoo]

5. I was also originally considering cushion, but was told that those cuts typically look smaller comparably, is that correct or should I still consider it.

Cushion cuts in general do look smaller BUT cushions are also cheaper than rounds in general. This means that you can go up in carat size with the same amount of money.

 

[uncle dunkel]

Okay, so I requested ASET images for the diamonds I had already narrowed it down to. Hopefully I get them by tomorrow morning. Only one SI2, and that was already verified by BN as eye-clean (whatever that may mean).

I will keep a look out for a princess cut graded AGS0 cut by AGSL, but the one posted here was more than I am looking to spend.

If I can''t trust vendor cut grades, can''t judge princess/radiant by numbers, can''t find an appropriate diamond rated by AGSL, and am buying online; how do I judge cut? Speak with someone who works for the websites and have them evaluate? Wouldn''t that be the same as a vendor grade though? Vendor = these websites right? I''d be happy to post the relevant numbers, but from what''s already been said I don''t think there is much to learn from them.

honey 22 - I choose to eliminate round as I never personally loved the look, but had been considering it b/c of it''s popularity. Decided that wasn''t a very good reason. No matter what, I''ll be sure there is a good exchange policy in case there is somethign else she wants.

 

[uncle dunkel]

The three diamonds I was looking at on WF are not in house so I am not sure how long it will take to get ASET images, but they have been requested. The person I am dealing with there refered me to the following diamond when I requested the images, but this one is $2-3.5k more expensive than the ones I sent her. http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-912101.htm# Can someone point me in the right direction to quickly learn how to read an ASET image?

 

[stone-cold11]

Here you go.

ASET reference chart

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 10/9/2008 6:18:14 PM
Author: uncle dunkel

If I can''t trust vendor cut grades, can''t judge princess/radiant by numbers, can''t find an appropriate diamond rated by AGSL, and am buying online; how do I judge cut? Speak with someone who works for the websites and have them evaluate? Wouldn''t that be the same as a vendor grade though? Vendor = these websites right? I''d be happy to post the relevant numbers, but from what''s already been said I don''t think there is much to learn from them.

You only trust what you can see and in this case, WF, Wink and GOG present ASET pics for you to analyzes, so you can judge yourself if the stone is a good performer. You could probably even ask Jon or Wink to make you a video to demonstrate the actual stone''s optical performance instead of looking at just a still picture.

 

[uncle dunkel]

FYI, BN response for image/ASET/IS requests:

"I''m sorry to say that we are not able to provide photographs of loose diamonds, primarily because diamonds are notorious for photographing inaccurately. A diamond with M color and I1 clarity can appear colorless and flawless in a photograph, while a diamond with F color and VVS2 clarity can appear yellow and significantly included. Another layer of potential inaccuracy is added in trying to display such photographs online. It is very difficult to represent colors and dimensions in an online photograph consistently as differing monitor settings prevent images from appearing the same for all users.

Instead of photographs, we provide a large amount of information about each diamond which many of our customers find extremely helpful in allowing them to compare different diamonds and in determining how their diamond will appear under different conditions (other than in the photography studio or jewelry store). If you have any questions about a particular diamond, please let me know and I''d be glad to assist.

In regards to your IdealScope request, I''m sorry to say that we are not able to provide IdealScope, GemEx, etc. reports for our diamonds. This is primarily because the majority of the vault locations that we store our diamonds at do not have these machines on site, but also because we do not believe that the majority of our customers would be able to properly interpret these kinds of reports. A cut appraisal machine is only as good as its calibration, and unless these machines are meticulously calibrated, they will not produce accurate results. Even when perfectly calibrated, the same diamond run through the same machine three times will produce three different results. (This is an experiment I would recommend trying if you ever happen to be at a jewelry store with one of these machines.)

Another reason we stay away from these kinds of reports is that the new AGS and GIA reports have largely superseded the need for additional cut grade assessment. The GIA and AGS are the undisputed leaders and gold standard for diamond grading in America, and their new cut grade assessments are the result of many years of research. Other assessments are neither as widely recognized nor as highly valued as GIA reports, so we have decided that the price increases that would result from providing these reports would not be acceptable to the majority of our customers."

I replied asking where on the GIA report cut is graded though I believe the answer is nowhere. I am a little suprised with the BN response given their popularity and the fact that people seem generally happy with their purchases from them. Is this just b/c most people who buy a fancy from BN probably do so and never look back - ie dont know what they are missing?

 

[uncle dunkel]

As I''m waiting to see if I''ll get ASET or IS images for any of the diamonds I''ve narrowed it down to, I took the time to put together the specs in case any of these looked better or worse by the numbers. If so, please let me know as it will help me narrow it down. These are sorted by shape and then by price. my preference for diamonds of similar carat size would be the lower price per carat as long as either diamond will look very good / not much of a difference between them.

#1)
Shape: Radiant
Price: $6,132
Carat Weight: 1.52
Price per carat: $4,034
Cut: n/a
Color: I
Clarity: SI1
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
L/W Ratio: 1.07
Depth %: 69.5
Table %: 67
Measurements: 6.59-6.17X4.29
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: M-TK
Culet: None

#2)
Shape: Radiant
Price: $6,700
Carat Weight: 1.52
Price per carat: $4,408
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
L/W Ratio: 1.04
Depth %: 69.9
Table %: 58
Measurements: 6.36*6.14*4.29
Fluorescence: Medium
Girdle: Slightly thick
Culet: None

#3)
Shape: Radiant
Price: $7,913
Carat Weight: 1.7
Price per carat: $4,655
Cut: n/a
Color: I
Clarity: VS2
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
L/W Ratio: 1.08
Depth %: 62.3
Table %: 70
Measurements: 7.23-6.69X4.17
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Girdle: STK-TK
Culet: None

#4)
Shape: Princess
Price: $6,254
Carat Weight: 1.59
Price per carat: $3,933
Cut: Very Good
Color: I
Clarity: SI2
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
L/W Ratio: 1.06
Depth %: 73
Table %: 72
Measurements: 6.74 x 6.36 x 4.64 mm
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Very Thin to Thick
Culet: None

#5)
Shape: Princess
Price: $7,212
Carat Weight: 1.64
Price per carat: $4,398
Cut: n/a
Color: I
Clarity: VVS2
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
L/W Ratio: 1.04
Depth %: 63
Table %: 70
Measurements: 6.89-6.60X4.16
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: STK-TK
Culet: None

#6)
Shape: Princess
Price: $7,351
Carat Weight: 1.53
Price per carat: $4,805
Cut: Very Good
Color: I
Clarity: VS1
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Good
L/W Ratio: 1.04
Depth %: 74.1
Table %: 71
Measurements: 6.60 x 6.34 x 4.70 mm
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick
Culet: None

#7)
Shape: Princess
Price: $7,400
Carat Weight: 1.51
Price per carat: $4,901
Cut: Very Good
Color: I
Clarity: VS1
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
L/W Ratio: 1.01
Depth %: 75
Table %: 69
Measurements: 6.20*6.13*4.60
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Thin
Culet: None

#
Shape: Princess
Price: $7,870
Carat Weight: 1.63
Price per carat: $4,828
Cut: Ideal
Color: I
Clarity: SI1
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
L/W Ratio: 1.02
Depth %: 73.9
Table %: 71
Measurements: 6.33*6.20*4.58
Fluorescence: None
Girdle: Very thick to Ext thick
Culet: None

#9)
Shape: Princess
Price: $7,988
Carat Weight: 1.63
Price per carat: $4,901
Cut: Very Good
Color: I
Clarity: VVS2
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
L/W Ratio: 1.04
Depth %: 74.3
Table %: 72
Measurements: 6.72 x 6.46 x 4.80 mm
Fluorescence: Faint
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick
Culet: None

 

[uncle dunkel]

one other point I forgot to mention in the other post, #4, the SI2 princess (and only SI2 on the list), was confirmed eye-clean by BN. okay that''s all for tonight. see you all tomorrow morning, and hopefully I''ll feel confident enough to make a purchase by the early afternoon

 

[arjunajane]

If you want more info, ie. reports etc, you are shopping at the wrong place with BN.
Ask WF, or preferably GOG for this one, to find you some options.

 

[uncle dunkel]

Yes, that''s the impression I am getting. Unfortunately, I haven''t been able to find comprable diamonds to the ones above, for comprable prices, at GOG, winks, in WF''s in house stock, or rated by ASG. I do have photos for three of the diamonds posted above if that helps.
#2) http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1144013&type=2
#7) http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1179125&type=2
# http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1125510&type=2

So, what risk do I run by purchasing a diamond from BN (or another reputable vendor) w/o ASET/IS images? These images help me determine quality of cut - thus it would seem that there is more risk purchasing at WF (for their diamonds that they don''t have in house) than BN or JA since WF does not provide cut ratings? would BN or JA be more risky to purchase based on their ratings? i could make the arguement that BN would be safer due to their size and reputation, but i could also argue JA would be safer as they have the diamonds on site (i believe, correct me if i am wrong) and therefore could more appropriately steer me in the right direction.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/10/2008 9:31:58 AM
Author: uncle dunkel
Yes, that''s the impression I am getting. Unfortunately, I haven''t been able to find comprable diamonds to the ones above, for comprable prices, at GOG, winks, in WF''s in house stock, or rated by ASG. I do have photos for three of the diamonds posted above if that helps.
#2) http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1144013&type=2
#7) http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1179125&type=2
# http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1125510&type=2

So, what risk do I run by purchasing a diamond from BN (or another reputable vendor) w/o ASET/IS images? These images help me determine quality of cut - thus it would seem that there is more risk purchasing at WF (for their diamonds that they don''t have in house) than BN or JA since WF does not provide cut ratings? would BN or JA be more risky to purchase based on their ratings? i could make the arguement that BN would be safer due to their size and reputation, but i could also argue JA would be safer as they have the diamonds on site (i believe, correct me if i am wrong) and therefore could more appropriately steer me in the right direction.

The two Princess above look better than the radiant, I would ask JA for Idealscope images as the don''t do ASET.

As to buying a fancy shape from BN or any other vendor without photos at least, you have no way of knowing what you will end up with when you open the box....As to vendor applied cut ratings, they really don''t mean that you will end up with a well cut diamond, especially with fancy shapes. Your best bet is really to work with a vendor who has the diamonds in his possession and who can send you photos and other images, otherwise it is really buying blind. You want to get the most beautiful diamond you can!!

 

[uncle dunkel]

Thanks, what did you see on the radiant that you didn''t like as much - clarity concerns? I am leaning towards the JA diamonds as I have been talking with them and we are arranging a time for me to come view the diamonds in person whille still meeting my timeframe. Another one I came across at WF, has ASET/IS images: http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-912100.htm#
what are the thoughts on a novice (me) buying in person without those images vs. buying the WF diamond above with those images but never seeing in person? regarding the above WF diamond, I am a little concerned on whether it is eye-clean. waiting on a response form them. The ASET looks good, not great to me, correct?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/10/2008 1:07:23 PM
Author: uncle dunkel
Thanks, what did you see on the radiant that you didn't like as much - clarity concerns? I am leaning towards the JA diamonds as I have been talking with them and we are arranging a time for me to come view the diamonds in person whille still meeting my timeframe. Another one I came across at WF, has ASET/IS images: http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-912100.htm#
what are the thoughts on a novice (me) buying in person without those images vs. buying the WF diamond above with those images but never seeing in person? regarding the above WF diamond, I am a little concerned on whether it is eye-clean. waiting on a response form them. The ASET looks good, not great to me, correct?

The radiant looks a bit uneven to me on one side, and I don't know how the dark contrasting areas would actually look in reality. If you can go to view some diamonds at JA then that is totally your best bet as you will have the benefits of a large inventory of stones to see plus expert advice. The WF diamond appears to be a nicely cut stone, the Expert Selection are chosen for value for the money diamonds and can be a good choice. I have seen better ASET certainly, but it still could be a good diamond.

 

[uncle dunkel]

Thanks for everyone''s help. Got a princess from James Allen after seeing a few in person. Him and his company were great

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/9/2008 11:30:35 PM
Author: uncle dunkel

I replied asking where on the GIA report cut is graded though I believe the answer is nowhere. I am a little suprised with the BN response given their popularity and the fact that people seem generally happy with their purchases from them. Is this just b/c most people who buy a fancy from BN probably do so and never look back - ie dont know what they are missing?

Uncle, it looks like you may have received the standard 'template' response to why they don't provide this data, and whoever provided it to you didn't take into account that you were looking for fancies (which GIA doesn't yet grade for cut).

To your second point, I think the answer is largely yes - most people don't realize how much different cut makes, and so they don't know what's they're missing.

ETA: You asked about risks involved in bringing in virtual stones through WF is higher. Because we don't drop-ship, there is no risk to you. If we call in a stone for you, we thoroughly evaluate the stone and let you know if we recommend it. If it wouldn't pass muster by us, we don't recommend it to you.