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Looking for 4ct princess but no experience....!!

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SKR

Shiny_Rock
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Oct 1, 2006
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It's my 10th wedding anniversary and I would like to buy my wife a princess cut diamond as a surprise present. I have zero experience of diamonds (apart from looking at the odd ring now and again) so I am grateful for discovering these forums.

I have a budget of $45k max and would like to get appoximately a 4.0ct stone. I have been reading about cut / clarity / colour etc and I now understand the individual concepts involved. What I dont understand however is the relationship between them and I would therefore would be grateful for some advice.

I know (after browsing prices) that to get a 4ct stone within my budget, I can get either a decent colour or a decent clarity but not both.

What I would like to know is that given the size requirement and the budget what would you guys/girls look for if you were in my position ? Also what are the ideal dimensions of a princess cut diamond ?

I have found this stone - http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=10452256 but I am concerned that it's an SI2 which will probably show up marks to the naked eye - the last thing I need is for my wife or her friends to spot them !!!!

Apologies if I sound like an idiot - when it comes to diamonds I am pretty useless.
 
There are always exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, I fear you''ll have a hard time finding a 4-ct-fancy shape in SI2 clarity that is clean to the naked eye. I''d rather suggest you look for an H/SI1 or similar. Actually, in such a big size, VS can be the way to go. I ran a quick search here on PS and found very little stones - your best bet is to contact a vendor and have him source down a couple of stones for you to consider.
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First of all I concur with everything Giangi said. But it also might be worth it to contact the vendor of the stone that you chose to find out exactly where the inclusions are. If they are on the sides or can be covered by prongs, then that princess that you found might be worth a try. Good luck with your search!! Your wife is a lucky lady.
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I will call the vendor tomorrrow to get more details on the stone.

If VS2 is the way to go, then looking at the prices on PS, I will have to drop the colour to an I or an H (if I get lucky). Would people consider buying an I princess of that size - I dont want it to look yellowish ?

Also which vendors do people recommend - although I live in London, I travel to NY on a regular basis on business. I have read good things about Good Old Gold but lots of people think they are pricey.
 
In that size, I'd maybe think G VS to be safe(r) although people buy 3 ct I radiants and other things all the time.
 
Ok thanks everyone. I will also look at that diamond as well. Can anyone point me to the do''s and dont''s of princess cut diamonds ? ie what to look out for, dimensions etc.

I always thought that princess cuts had the largest visible area per carat (on average). But reading the fourms the consensus seems to be that round diamonds tend to have larger surface areas. I cant fathom that so I looked the average dimensions of the two types of stone around 4 cts weight -

4ct princess cuts tend to be around the 8.9mm (lenght / width) range giving them a surface area of 79.2mm sq.

4ct rounds tend to have a diameter of approx 10mm giving them a surface area of 78.5mm sq

Given the surface area is the same (albeit with different shapes) they should both look about the same size. Right ?
 
In a diamond of that size, I would not consider lower than a G, especially because princesses show more color than rounds. And princesses do face up smaller than rounds of the same carat weight, assuming one is not cut very deep. Take a look at this chart

http://images.amazon.com/media/i3d/01/actual-diamond-size.pdf
 
Wow, that''s quite a budget and quite a gift!
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Would you like a mistress??!
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Hi, SKR....Welcome!

Your search sounds very exciting, and we''d love to get a vicarious thrill watching you go through it!

Is the reason you''re wanting a Princess mainly because of the face up size?

I''m attaching a chart I saved long ago....I presume the prices quoted are out of date...but it''s interesting to see the differences in the visual sizes of different stones which are all similar in grading and in price. (One of my favorite shapes is oval, and is not represented on this chart. I suspect being slightly longated, an oval would have a bigger ''look'' too)

Just thought you might find this interesting...

Have fun!

widget

va085a.jpg
 
Lynn B - I would love to but I cannot afford two women !!
 
Jazmine - thanks that chart is really useful

Widget - yes, I was thinking princess as I thought face up they would be the biggest. I want to achieve impact - I know it sounds a bit sad but thats where I am heading. Rounds are out as she already has several. The pears and ovals also look very nice and I dont mind switching - anything but round.
 
Pears, ovals and marquises will all look big for their weight.
 
A large pear in a halo would achieve the impact factor. It''s a gorgeous look!
 
I guess pears and ovals tend to reflect more and hence could take a H/I colour better than a princess?
 
SKR, I am by no means a diamond expert, but I am the proud owner of princess cut wedding ring & diamond earrings.

I was shocked when I tried on a 1 carat princess cut for the first time, with how *small* it looked compared to my stepmom''s 1 carat round brilliant.

my 1.13 princess cut is 5.5x5.5 and 4.5 mm deep (I have a very deep stone, I''d have preferred a depth of 70%, but oh well, it has tons of fire).

I think (and please anyone with more knowledge than me, feel free to jump in and correct me) that princesses have a larger "table" area than a round brilliant, but the round at the same carat weight is going to be larger.

a one carat round brilliant is about 6.5 mm in diameter, compared to that 1 carat princess at 5.0 to 5.5 mm. (That''s about right, eh Mara?)

So if you are going for the "biggest looking diamond" for the carat weight, I''d go with a round brilliant. If you want really huge & like fancy shapes, marquise, ovals, & pears look huge for the carat weight.

But at 4 freakin'' carats, anything is a rock, and in my princess cut obsessed head, I''d take that 4 carat baby any day.

mmmm...

If she doesn''t like it, you can mail it to me!!!

Divergrrl.
 
Date: 10/1/2006 5:43:30 PM
Author: SKR
I guess pears and ovals tend to reflect more and hence could take a H/I colour better than a princess?
Click to expand...
Mine is an H/I with a wee bit of flourescence & its white white white.
 
Thanks divergrrl - I am still going to look for a princess but am also including pears as an option. I have just been taking some dimensions and drawing them out on a piece of paper - you are right all of them look pretty big. I prefer the pear shape to the oval though.

Right, apart from the usual vendors (whiteflash, bluenile etc) is there anyone out there that your guys/girls would recommend ? A more personal service would be great. I really like the video of the ovals in the other thread - wow what customer service !!! Which vendor was that - does anyone know ?
 
I think that pears show more color than almost any other cut. That is why you see many colored diamonds cut into pears (and radiants) because they really show off the color. Which is great if you have a pink or yellow diamond. Not so great with the colorless diamonds. The point of the pear begins to look yellowish (to me) without going very far away from colorless (D-F). Especially in such a large diamond. In a pear, I would not go beyond a G for sure. However, my diamond is a D and I consider myself very color sensitive.

BTW, that oval vendor was Good Old Gold.
 
Date: 10/1/2006 6:13:14 PM
Author: SKR
Thanks divergrrl - I am still going to look for a princess but am also including pears as an option. I have just been taking some dimensions and drawing them out on a piece of paper - you are right all of them look pretty big. I prefer the pear shape to the oval though.

Right, apart from the usual vendors (whiteflash, bluenile etc) is there anyone out there that your guys/girls would recommend ? A more personal service would be great. I really like the video of the ovals in the other thread - wow what customer service !!! Which vendor was that - does anyone know ?
Click to expand...
That video was from GoodOldGold - http://www.goodoldgold.com/Home/

They are very reputable, and Jon is great to work with. He would be a good choice for a fancy cut.
 
Thanks Ellen - I will give them a call tomorrow.

I wish I was buying her a car or something - it would have been so much easier !!. At least with a new car its a WYSIWYG item - clearly not so with a diamond.
 
Date: 10/1/2006 6:25:44 PM
Author: SKR
Thanks Ellen - I will give them a call tomorrow.

I wish I was buying her a car or something - it would have been so much easier !!. At least with a new car its a WYSIWYG item - clearly not so with a diamond.
Click to expand...
lol I hear ya! But GOG will make it about as painless as possible.
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Right - time to do some serious work tomorrow !! I will report back.

Can someone please give me approx ideal dimensions for a princess and pears ? Is there anything thats a definate no no ?

I think I have found an ideal setting - a thickish band (about 0.5 - 0.7 cm's) covered in small black diamonds with the solitaire sitting on top. The black diamonds really make the solitaire stand out. I have seen this setting in flesh and it looked awesome. Ladies, if this makes you go ughhhh then please speak up now !!!
 
Date: 10/1/2006 6:54:51 PM
Author: SKR
Ladies, if this makes you go ughhhh then please speak up now !!!
Click to expand...

Maybe not "ughhh" but ???? (
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). Do you have a picture or a link to this setting? Does your wife like black diamonds? They appeal to a rather specific taste.
 
These charts will give you a place to start with ideal dimensions.

http://www.gemappraisers.com/oldcutgraderules.asp

I agree about the black diamonds. Do you know your wife likes them? I do have to admit, I thought "are you really going to dampen the glamour of a 4 carat rock with black diamonds?" I am not crazy about the look. They seem masculine to me.
 
DeeJay - sorry no picture or link - I have seen someone wearing it at work.

Jazmine - not sure whether or not my wife likes black diamonds - she doesnt have any thats for sure. I am going to hold fire on that one I guess - let me find the stone first. Thanks for the link.
 
Speaking of colored diamonds, which black makes me go uugghh btw, have you thought about yellow or pink??

Here is a 4.52 fancy light yellow...

dbl_light_yellow.jpg
 
Here''s pink, but you won''t get anywhere close to 4cts with pink...

158pj.jpg
 
Date: 10/1/2006 10:17:25 AM
Author:SKR
It''s my 10th wedding anniversary and I would like to buy my wife a princess cut diamond as a surprise present. I have zero experience of diamonds (apart from looking at the odd ring now and again) so I am grateful for discovering these forums.

I have a budget of $45k max and would like to get appoximately a 4.0ct stone. I have been reading about cut / clarity / colour etc and I now understand the individual concepts involved. What I dont understand however is the relationship between them and I would therefore would be grateful for some advice.

I know (after browsing prices) that to get a 4ct stone within my budget, I can get either a decent colour or a decent clarity but not both.

What I would like to know is that given the size requirement and the budget what would you guys/girls look for if you were in my position ? Also what are the ideal dimensions of a princess cut diamond ?

I have found this stone - http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=10452256 but I am concerned that it''s an SI2 which will probably show up marks to the naked eye - the last thing I need is for my wife or her friends to spot them !!!!

Apologies if I sound like an idiot - when it comes to diamonds I am pretty useless.
Click to expand...
I think you are on the right track. With a stone of this size I would go with a higher colour/lower clarity for myself. Perhaps you could even go down to an F and up to an SI1. I would contact Whiteflash and see if these inclusions are visible to the naked eye..... And BTW, Happy 10th Anniversary! What a great gift you are planning!
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