Looking at a GIA Round Brilliant 1.7 F-VS2-Triple X

[nyjon]

Seeking some help,

I have been actively looking at diamonds for the past month. I started with Ovals in mind but starting to sway back to Round because every oval that I have seen has had some very strong bow-tie effects. I also feel like the oval settings are limited and very trendy at the moment. The only oval i saw without a bow-tie seemed extremely shallow to me.

1.70 F vs1
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2177523193

price 16,500


The Round Brilliant he brought in was the following -

GIA
1.7 F VS2 Triple X
7.62 - 7.65 x 4.77 mm


http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=5186113471

Visually it was absolutely stunning, The price is 19,500 from a "family friend" jeweler. I didn't try to negotiate but he always says " i am only making 500 off the sale" (3 people i know have bought from him and i have been present every time) I just figured i would come back on Monday with a second eye to check it out then talk if i wanted to pursue it.

When i search online i see some comparable stones between $16,500 - $18,500 . Just wondering if Its overpriced - and if i could get something a bit larger for my money.

Would love some opinions, I really wanted to be around 1.75-1.9 colorless or possibly G on the round, triple x. The closer i am to that 8.0 x 8.0 mark - obviously the better.

Please let me know

Best,
Jon


Attached are some person photos i took with a loop and iphone 6. The settings were just for show.

 

[nyjon]

For the round, the stone budget is 18-20k.

looking to do 5 stone total, 2 sides approx .30, 2 sides approx .15

 

[digether]

I'm not an expert, but I think you've answered your own question. You can find cheaper stones of similar quality online.

I've heard that a slight bow-tie effect in fancy diamonds can be better than no bow-tie effect at all: http://beyond4cs.com/cut/bow-tie-effect/

 

[Diamond2014]

This would be one of your biggest purchase. hence try to learn as much as possible:

http://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/prosumer-basics/

From personal experience through my searches, with $19,000 you will have a LOADDDD of choices. SOOOO many choices you can have with $19,000 and I think your "family" friend is a bit overpriced.

And it's also scary that whenever in the report say "Comments: Additional clouds are not shown."

 

[nyjon]

Thank you for the replies.

should i expect to find local diamonds (new york) priced close to online prices? Obviously a store generally has larger overhead and price increases associated but its hard to know how to price each individual stone.


anyone have any online retail suggestions ?


thanks again
jon

 

[yssie]

"Additional clouds not shown" isn't going to be anything to worry about in a reputably-graded VS; the red flag is "Clarity based on clouds not shown" in an SI.

Would the sidestones be the same shape as the center? A couple of PSers have had beautiful oval multi-stone rings made - it's a very unique look! Graduated five-stones with RBs are more common - equally beautiful, but not as unexpected.

Ovals really can't be bought by the numbers - your best bet is to look at as many examples as you can in-person and trust your eyes (and your vendor's) to choose. You'll want your vendor to find the oval sidestones as well - matching oval melee definitely isn't something I recommend trying to do yourself online!

Do you have a setting in-mind? Will you be buying the setting from your family friend regardless of where the stone(s) is from? If so are there any fees associated with setting stones sourced elsewhere? What sorts of upgrade/buyback/trade-in policies does your jeweller offer, if any, and are they important to you?

The numbers on the RB look fine and no other flags on the report, as no obvious issues jumping out at me from that photo, but we'll need closeups face-up at the very least to go into any further detail. Re. price for an unbranded non-precision-cut RB with that specs - your jeweller is on right par with James Allen:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=1.70&CaratTo=15.00&Color=F,E,D&Clarity=VS1,VS2&Cut=Ideal,Excellent,TrueHearts&PriceFrom=200&PriceTo=999000&Sort=Price%20asc%20,DefaultOrder

Ex. 1.66 F SI1 H&A (ACA line) from WF $17.3k http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3057912.htm

 

[Diamond2014]

Diamond are traded base on the Rapaport

http://www.diamondenvy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/rapaport-price-list.jpg

This is an old one found online which should be similar to recent Rapaport.

Looking at your 1.7 F VS2
You look at the Rapaport and see that the MAXIMUM you should pay for this diamond is $21,590 (1.7 x $12,700)

So that give you the ball park of not to pay over that price. Then look at CUT proportions to see if it's in PERFECT ideal cut to see if it's worth to pay close to that maximum price. Then use sites like Blue Nile or PriceScope search to check for diamonds and see what price they're doing at in the current market.

I don't think it's a good idea to ask people here of recommendation as everyone here have their own "ideal" cut proportions. For example, myself I like a BALANCE of everything.

 

[Diamond2014]

People on this site love SI1 and SI2 clarity. They find it that clarity is not that important as long as it is "eye clean" and that as long as it is an eye clean, it's a good value bang for the bux. Eye clean as in looking at it a foot away from the diamond and not seeing any inclusions.

Some people likes it "mind clean" as in at least VS1 and better, so they know their diamond is a good clarity diamond.

 

[nyjon]

Thanks again for all of your help. Anyone care to give input on the following

Gia
7172002936

Exact same specs, new vendor - he wants 17,800
Stone is overseas atm and will arrive by Monday.

Any input? Thanks again!

Jon

 

[yssie]

Thanks again for all of your help. Anyone care to give input on the following

Gia
7172002936

Exact same specs, new vendor - he wants 17,800
Stone is overseas atm and will arrive by Monday.

Any input? Thanks again!

Jon

No. Pav depth high, even given small table/long lgf/shallow crown.
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=7172002936&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

Depth 62.3 %
Table 56 %
Crown Angle 33.0°
Crown Height 14.5%
Pavilion Angle 41.6°
Pavilion Depth 44.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None

 

[heididdl]

Guidelines for ideal cut

table 54-58
dept 60-62.3 (yours 62.5
crown angle 34-35 yours 35.6
crown 14.2%

then also use3 hca tool above to weed out non ideal cut stones.

 

[yssie]

Guidelines for ideal cut

table 54-58
dept 60-62.3 (yours 62.5
crown angle 34-35 yours 35.6
crown 14.2%

then also use3 hca tool above to weed out non ideal cut stones.

I disagree strongly with this. That this cheat sheet depicts your definition of ideal merely means that it's your definition; it's not in any way an industry-standard and doesn't represent any collective PS agreement. It's at best a very basic guide, and it is not meant to be used as a set of hard limits or inflexible boundaries - and IMO all it does when presented like this, sans original disclaimers and statements of intended use, is create unnecessary fear.

There are beautiful stones that AGSL will happily term "ideal" with proportions that fall outside these very small ranges - it's all in how the various proportions work together, and you really can't look at any one or two numbers in isolation. Stones that conform to these specifications will have a certain flavour, stones that don't will have different flavours. Some of them will be lovely, some will be doozies. At the same time, choosing a stone that falls squarely in the middle of the cheat sheet doesn't definitively guarantee that you will love it, and choosing a stone with an HCA < 2 doesn't guarantee that it'll be a pretty stone, just that it's worth further investigation.

There is nothing in the proportions of the original (below) that suggest caution - the proportions work well together on paper and there's nothing to indicate that it won't be a lovely, fiery stone.
At the same time, there's nothing to definitively guarantee that OP would love it (if he hadn't seen it).
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=5186113471