Living in China?

[Cehrabehra]

Around shanghi.... non asian family.... anything I should know?

 

[Harriet]

I''ve never been there, but my mother spent a few months there and had a great time. She''s Asian, but does not speak the language. The local (vs. expat) hospitals scared her off eventually.

 

[Pandora II]

Shanghai is great! I really enjoyed it there (only 2 weeks), but there were lots of expats.

FI''s brother is dating a ballet dancer who has just signed a contract to join a new ballet company in Suzhou which is about an hour away. She''s moving there next month for a year. FBIL''s firm have offered him the chance to go and work in their HK or Chinese branch while she''s out there so I think he''s going too.

Fab experience for them both!

 

[dvsone]

shanghai.
GREAT food.. holy crap you''ll gain weight.. haha

 

[snlee]

Yes, great food! Yum! I''ve never lived there and visited for less than 2 days when I went to China, so no good advice to give.

Do you have plans to move there?

 

[clammer]

Cehrabehra ... I mostly just a lurker here and I''m putting in my ten minutes here before I head out the door for the day, but I had to reply. My dh and I are currently living about 1.5 flight from Shanghai and travel there frequently on the weekends. He lived in Shanghai for a year before I finally moved over (I had to finish school, sell the house, etc...) In fact we are probably moving back to Shanghai in Feb. for three more years. Let me tell you there is both good and bad here. Are you moving for business, because you love the culture, just want to try something new? This will make a difference of where and how you will want to live.

I''m sorry, but I have to head out. I''m already running late. Post any and all questions you have. I should be able to answer them or point you in the right direction. I''ll try to think of all the things that I wish people would have told us before we moved and will let you know.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, Sara, what''s up?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/12/2007 6:57:56 PM
Author: Harriet
I''ve never been there, but my mother spent a few months there and had a great time. She''s Asian, but does not speak the language. The local (vs. expat) hospitals scared her off eventually.

could you explain this some more??

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/12/2007 8:56:34 PM
Author: snlee
Yes, great food! Yum! I''ve never lived there and visited for less than 2 days when I went to China, so no good advice to give.

Do you have plans to move there?

Not at this time, and I promise I won''t be vague like kcour is!!! LOL!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/12/2007 10:27:26 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Okay, Sara, what''s up?

Its just an opportunity. dh and I have since day 1 of our marriage wanted to live overseas for 2-3 years but we always pictured europe, not asia. I really hadn''t considered asia. I worry that I would end up in jail for saying something I shouldn''t say lol Anyway, dh has brought this up now 3 times and this time he''s requesting info and sounds like he wants to do it. My first thought was no but that''s just me not wanting to change things lol It did cross my mind rather quickly, would I be safe to wear my new ring over there??? LOL Hopefully the open culet and J color would scare them off "poor her look at that ugly diamond!" LOL

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/12/2007 9:33:40 PM
Author: Rebot
Cehrabehra ... I mostly just a lurker here and I''m putting in my ten minutes here before I head out the door for the day, but I had to reply. My dh and I are currently living about 1.5 flight from Shanghai and travel there frequently on the weekends. He lived in Shanghai for a year before I finally moved over (I had to finish school, sell the house, etc...) In fact we are probably moving back to Shanghai in Feb. for three more years. Let me tell you there is both good and bad here. Are you moving for business, because you love the culture, just want to try something new? This will make a difference of where and how you will want to live.

I''m sorry, but I have to head out. I''m already running late. Post any and all questions you have. I should be able to answer them or point you in the right direction. I''ll try to think of all the things that I wish people would have told us before we moved and will let you know.

Well, living on the east coast of the US for over 3 years gave us a deeper understanding of our home state (california) and of our country and we have always thought that living outside the US would really give us great perspective and opportunity for travel. Most of the travel destination spots for me are in europe, but the more I think about not going because it isn''t europe is just silly - adventure and experience are to be had everywhere.

This would be a work opportunity. The kids don''t want to go, but I do have a friend there who is from here that 2 of her children that went to school with 2 of my children. She''s been living there for 2.5 years now and loves it - at 2 years they signed up for 2 more. We don''t talk much anymore... tech is great in that she has a local # that you can call her on, but the time difference is pretty limiting.

We would live in a designated area, rent a house and be provided with some services. My dh works for a major company that has almost its own neighborhood over there. The hospital comment in the other reply concerned me....

I seriously am concerned I''d say something that got my ass thrown in jail. Something ''dissenting''.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/13/2007 12:28:04 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 6/12/2007 6:57:56 PM
Author: Harriet
I've never been there, but my mother spent a few months there and had a great time. She's Asian, but does not speak the language. The local (vs. expat) hospitals scared her off eventually.

could you explain this some more??

Sure. My intrepid mother moved to Shanghai to teach in a school for Singaporean kids. It turned out that the medical coverage wasn't very good, and didn't extend to expat hospitals. Since she has some health issues, she was worried that the local medical care might be inadequate (she's used to Singapore medical standards, which are supposed to be excellent).

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/13/2007 12:51:19 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 6/13/2007 12:28:04 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 6/12/2007 6:57:56 PM
Author: Harriet
I''ve never been there, but my mother spent a few months there and had a great time. She''s Asian, but does not speak the language. The local (vs. expat) hospitals scared her off eventually.

could you explain this some more??

Sure. Which part?

local vs expat hospitals!

 

[Harriet]

From what my mother told me, there are some hospitals that are intended for well-covered expatriates. As long as your insurance coverage is good, it sounds like Shanghai would be a blast.

 

[crown1]

hi! i have friends that lived in china, working for the same company as my husband, for 3 years. their children were college age and did not accompany them. they had a company provided apartment that was pretty primitive by our standards. the company provided them with interpreters and transportation. they were not in a major city.

the wife had to have her appendix removed while there. the husband was found to have cancer while home for a visit and had to abandon the project to return to the us for surgery and treatment. they are the type of people who can adapt to any situation and were up for the adventure but there were things that were trying. hth.

 

[surfgirl]

While I haven't lived in Asia, I work in Asia often, spending anywhere from a few weeks to a few months at a time. And I have a lot of friends living there so I am quite familiar with the living situation. In any country and especially in Asia, cultural sensitivity is of the utmost importance. And that extends to holding your tongue at times, even if you personally don't agree with what's being said or done. That said, I am in the international development field so I have to be culturally sensitive wherever I am. But I've seen alot of corporate foreigners that act like asses on a regular basis because they dont understand that they're "not in Kansas anymore" and therefore, things aren't supposed to be like they are at home.

No, you cant/shouldn't wear your ering there. It would be both inappropriate and dangerous, IMO. Inappropriate in that most people live way below what we do in a western country and IMO, it's not appropriate to throw our expendable wealth in the face of others. It can cause many problems, including those of safety. I dont take anything with me that I cant stand to lose. The culture is harsh in many ways (IMO) - think, lots of hawking and spitting on your shoes, in your face vendors, people who seem to be YELLING all the time (though they're really not), etc. But it's not my country and all that is acceptable there. You need to be able to be both adaptable and accept that things you might not condone are going to occur in front of you and you'll have to just accept that. As far as living in a foreign enclave goes, I find those places to be awful. They are for people who want to live overseas but without the mess of having to "really live overseas" if you know what I mean. Most of the people living in these enclaves - in my experience - have very low thresholds for local customs and people. They live their lives in a mini-American gated community, with their own swimmming pools, local shops stocked with American products, etc. The only thing "local" about their experience is their local maid, nanny and/or gardener. I dont understand why they even leave home since they just insulate themselves from their locale anyway. I do have some friends who live within local neighborhoods and I much prefer those living situations. But they also come with their own set of issues. Most locations require guards since the homes are located in better hoods; then there's the Communist Party system and that brings alot of issues into daily life. The local Party watchdogs will monitor who goes in/out of your home. You'll sometimes get "visits" from the local People's Committee, trying to see what you're up to and get bribes from you if you have foreign guests staying with you, etc.

Dont know if that's enough info for you but that's based solely on my personal experience. Other's may have other experiences...

 

[crown1]

my friends did not live in a compound. they were among the people. some of the things surfgirl commented on were also their experiences.

 

[whatmeworry]

As well as the language issues, be prepared to be illiterate as well, you won''t be able to read menus, signs, etc.

 

[chrono]

And be prepared to bargain for everything or get ripped off since you obviously look different and don''t speak the language.

 

[clammer]

Wow. I have a totally different perspective than surfgirl. I have lived in Yantai the entire time I have been here, but like I said, dh lived in Shanghai for a year before we moved here. He chose to live in Pudong because that was the side of the river that his office was on and it can be literally hours in traffic during rush hour to get from one side of the city to the other. We also liked that Pudong had grass and trees whereas Puxi, although much more local, was full of buildings and traffic and chaos. Much of the housing on the Pudong side is geared towards expats and rich Chinese and tends to be much newer and westernized. Think western height counter tops, ovens, bathtubs, space. We get culture every time we step out of the house, when I''m at home I want it to feel like a home to me.

As far as my jewelry, I wear it pretty much everywhere. China is an incredibly safe country in comparison to the US. I have never felt threatened. They have very little violent crime here. Obviously, you have to be aware and not be an idiot. I don''t flaunt my jewelry, but I''m also not embarrassed or scared to wear it.

I have never had any issues with the Party. Don''t be an idiot and talk about it in public. It''s discussion for behind closed doors. The majority of people we know are not Communist, some are. They know their government has issues, but doesn''t every government.

The health care system for expats in Shanghai is typically pretty good. It depends on your insurance. We have some of the best insurance possible. If you are in an accident they will fly you to Hong Kong or Korea for treatment. They even offered to fly DH''s coworker to Hong Kong to set a broken finger.

Were I do agree with surfgirl is the many differences in culture. Lots of spitting, no personal space, no idea of how to queue, lots of littering, men peeing on the side of the road, vendors that won''t leave you alone. This is their way of life. I will tell you that after a while you do grow somewhat accustom to it. Although it still shocks me when I see a woman hawk a luggie that would rival any man at home.

Make sure that your husband is ready to work in a foreign country. DH comes home mental exhausted almost everyday. Things are done very differently here and it''s not how we would do. It can be very frusterating at times. Also, what would you do while you were here?

All of dh''s coworkers children are very happy here that I know of. Two families had moved back to the states and ended up moving back here a few years later and the kids were all for it.

If you talk about it and decide that you both are interested, have dh get the package to see if it is worth it. It should include - housing, a driver (you have to be on a death wish to drive in Shanghai), tuition paid for school (about $20,000/yr per child), it will probably include some cost of living, hardship, and R&R. You may want to ask how DH''s company deals with taxes.

I don''t love it here, sometimes I don''t even like it here, but it is an experience. I miss home and I want to go back someday, but for now hubby and I are enjoying trying something different.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/13/2007 4:14:38 PM
Author: Chrono
And be prepared to bargain for everything or get ripped off since you obviously look different and don't speak the language.

Ditto. Even I would expect to get ripped off, despite speaking the language.

 

[clammer]

I should have stated in my previous post this pertains to Shanghai. I wouldn''t wear my jewelry to the small villages, but with as western as Shanghai is almost anything goes.

Everyone''s right, definitely expect to be ripped off.

 

[hlmr]

My father lived/taught in China (Qingdao) for a few years (about 8 years ago) and he was used, abused, chewed up and spit out......and I don't think even he realizes how badly. He almost died there due to the equivalent of (our) 1950's medicine which was all that was available, and not sufficient for his medical needs.

Pollution is beyond anything you can imagine and corruption is rampant and threaded throughout every day life. People are your friends if they think you have something to offer them. I think it would be an experience, but it would be life changing imho, and not necessarily for the better.

I apologize for my bitter attitude, but you did ask for input. I am sure you will make the best of it, and find the best of people/culture when/if you are there.

 

[clammer]

hlmr.. it's funny that your dad lived in Qingdao. That is the "big" city we go to when we are trying to get out of our hell hole.

China isn't for the faint hearted. You said that your husband's company is large, so is my husband's (he works for one of the big three auto companies), I am assuming that you would have a package similar to ours. We are living a lifestyle that we could not have at home. We have a driver, a house almost three times the size of the one back home, a maid that is doing my dishes as I type this, and no expenses. We sold our house and cars before we came, so after we put money into stocks and 401k everything gets banked.

We are here only for the money and to further my husband's career. We do not love the Chinese culture however we do appreciate it. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, that was not my intent. It is a decision that only your family can make. I would, in a nanosecond, choose Europe if we could get the same benefits as here, which we can't because Europe is not a developing country.

Assuming that your family would have a package similar to ours, you would not have the medical issues that you have heard about in this thread. Quick story...My husband and I traveled to Vietnam and Thailand for three weeks. Last week, about a week after we got home, my husband came down with what we think was food poisoning. He started having blood in his stool and we called the SOS hotline. They wanted to fly him out of Yantai immediately, but hubby said that he would take his cyprical (sp) and call them first thing in the morning to set up a flight. He is completely fine now, but they called twice to make sure and urged him to set up an appt. to get checked for parasites which you can get in both Vietnam and Thailand. Dh's company/insurance is flying him to Beijing and putting him up overnight to run tests on something that may have occurred while we were on vacation not in China. I'm assuming that all lg. companies do this.

Check out http://www.worldlink-shanghai.com/. This is where we go for all of our check-ups. We have ulterior motive for going to Beijing this weekend, typically we do all medical in Shanghai. It is more expensive than a lot of places you can go, but...while...we're not paying

eta: smaller cities are backwards with their medical care like hmlr said. We don't get anything done here in Yantai, nor would we go to Qingdao to do it. Most people are not educated about their health and local doctors actually prescribe stuff like dried monkey balls.

 

[pricescope]

Relocating kids is very tough too Cehra...

 

[hlmr]

Date: 6/13/2007 9:56:53 PM
Author: Rebot
hlmr.. it''s funny that your dad lived in Qingdao. That is the ''big'' city we go to when we are trying to get out of our hell hole.

My friend''s DH is a big wig with one of the three auto giants. They lived in Singapore for a couple of years and loved it. Now they live in Shanghi.....and well let''s just say they''ve lost that lovin'' feelin''. Completely difficult culture, and the people and the change have not been for the better.

Gawd, if your place is worse than Qingdao.......ouch.......is the pollution as bad there too?

 

[Harriet]

Cehra,
Is Singapore an option?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/13/2007 10:09:00 PM
Author: Pricescope
Relocating kids is very tough too Cehra...

yeah, be easier for the boys since our friend has kids their age.... but we''re relocating either way.... and southern california might almost be as much of a culture clash LOL (kidding of course but not totally lol)

And no, singapore isn''t an option. I''ll find out more on friday.... as for the rest of the posts I will get back tomorrow, I''ve been sick for days and it doesn''t take much to drain me I''m afraid

I am feeling better but I logged on and am now feeling exhausted ,it is kinda late and i really need to feel better before the kids get out of school for the summer on friday. DH has his last school on saturday and he''s off for the summer also - yay!!

 

[Phoenix]

Although I've never lived in China, I have travelled there for business and DH goes there all the time (as in several times in a year, sometimes twice a month) for biz too. We have many friends and colleagues who live there. We have an idea of what it'd be like to live in SH. I'd say on the whole, it is fairly safe (though not as safe as Singapore, say). You can wear yr jewellery no problem! There are women there with jewellery so blingy that willl blind you! Of course there are still people with not so much money, but China is very fast growing and people, particularly in SH and BJ, it's becoming more and more affluent. You just have to be a little careful but I wouldn't say you'd have to be more careful than most parts of the US or Europe, unless you go to really remote or poorer areas of China.

As for the spitting, nose-picking, shouting (or seemingly shouting) and the staring (esp. if you're a white person, particularly a female), yes, expect them! The standard of hygiene is definitely lacking and you will for sure gag at some things; the public hospitals, I wouldn't go anywhere near them. BUT, this is a big but, most expats, as Rebot mentioned, are there (whether in China, HK or S'pore or anywhere else in the world) go on secondment for the reasons of career enhancement and of course more money. Most expats in China, also in HK and I think other countries in Asia like Thailand and the Philippines, do live in "expat areas" which are more comfortable and closer in standards to their own home country than the more local areas. In their homes, they can live amongst peple who speak the same language and who have more in common with you. This doesn't mean though there are no Chinese people living in the same compound or nearby . Also as someone said, you only need to step out of your home or compound, to feel the cultural differences, it is everywhere, be it at work, in supermarkets or on the streets or in restaurants or whatever. Living in an expat area makes it more bearable and is more conducive to a happier you, and also means you're less likely to be home sick and wanting to give up and return home. IMO, I don't think it is something to feel ashamed abt. It is different if you travel there for holiday, particularly when you're younger, say when you're in yr 20's and wanting to experience more of the country, its people and their way of life; as opposed to if you need to live and work there. As far as kids, you'd be surprised at how adaptable they are. I know of expat kids who love it so much in HK and S'pore they refuse to re-locate back to their home country.

However, still be prepared for a cultural shock (it will happen, yes!). Many Chinese don't speak English (you might say why should they?), but more and more people do speak English and this is an increasing trend, though expect people not to understand you and vice versa, except for the work place and even so, most documents are written in Chinese. I know I had a huge culture shock when I went to HK from London, I was so miserable because I couldn't speak the language, didn't know anyone intialy, whether at work or socially, and everything just seemed so strange and people so harsh. And this, despite my coming from VN originally! After a while though, I fell in love with HK and the harshness is just their own way, it doesn't actually mean they're harsh, it just seems so because they talk very loudly and tend not to do more Western things like opening/ holding the door for you. Oh, and there is no concept of "personal space", people will stand very close to you and speak very close to your face, even spitting at you without realising it! I accept HK is more developed than most parts in China but SH is catching up, fast!!

One word of warning though, make sure your health insurance is very comprehensive and includes "evaculation assistance". It'd be better to be flown to HK or S'pore or even Bangkok (actually BK is known for attracting more wealthy clientele from other countries due to the high standards of hospitals there) than to be treated in local hospitals.

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/13/2007 12:59:00 PM
Author: Harriet
From what my mother told me, there are some hospitals that are intended for well-covered expatriates. As long as your insurance coverage is good, it sounds like Shanghai would be a blast.

Our insurance here is really good so I can''t imagine it would be any worse there....