Lazare vs Perfect cut diamonds are all the same?

[Raulonfire]

Hey guys,

This is the first time I asked in here, I thank all of you guys, because everyone participation is awesome about doubts / recommendations we do same have.

My english is not really good, so here is the story..

I´m just about to buy a diamond, in one week or less, and I was going to buy a BGD Signature diamond
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...0.774-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-c-104063435149
And I thought was the best one, but after doing some research I went to a local store and I found a Lazare diamond, so perfect and brilliant, the lady told me he was the first man for ideal cut….etctera. (Note: As you know buying online I haven´t seen the sparkle and fire of a BGD signature diamond Hearts and Arrows)

So I started to doubt wheter Lazare diamonds are really unique or nowadays everyone can do the same perfect cut with ideal proportions.

Then I found this page http://www.gemnation.com/base?processor=getPage&pageName=cut
and it says what are the proportions must have a Premium Ideal Round diamond!

So then I went to BGD take notes of the diamond proportions and check it with the Holloway Cut Adviser http://www.ideal-scope.com/hca.asp and I take notes of what it said.

Round-G-.774-SI1-None-Ideal(Cut)-Ideal(Polysh)-Ideal(Symm)
Price: $3,934
Wire Price: $3,816
Ideal Scope – HCA (min. 0.5 / máx. 2.0): 0.9 Excellent
Light return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintilation: Excellent
Spread: Very Good

So Almost everything is Excellent and Ideal Cut, Polysh and Symmetry.

Then I tought what if I checked it and compared it with a diamond that is not Not-branded diamond Brian Gavin Select which is so much lower price than the signature BGD.

So I found after all this too…
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.770-g-si2-round-diamond-gia-44052005
Round-G-.77-SI2-None-Ideal(Cut)-Ideal(Polysh)-Ideal(Symm)
Price: $2,776
Wire Price: $2,749
Ideal Scope – HCA (min. 0.5 / máx. 2.0): 0.9 Excellent
Light return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintilation: Excellent
Spread: Very Good

So both diamonds the Holloway Cut Adviser says are excellent light return, excellent, fire and excellent scintilation and very good spread, and both have ideal Cut, Ideal Polysh and Ideal Symm, just its diferrence falls in SI1 to SI2 and also the not branded brian diamond is goes to .9 on the scale of the Holloway Cut Adviser which it says it might be as brilliant as anyother ones.


Can somebody help me?

Should I care of the proportions as i am doing it with the gem nation premium ideal standars proportions and use the holloway cut adviser?


Cause I found really diference price on these both and im really excited to buy the cheapest one.

I found this one on JA using the proportions of a premium ideal cut round diamond and so cheap! against BGD signature
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-224199
Round-G-.80-SI1-None-Ideal(Cut)-Ideal(Polysh)-Ideal(Symm)
Price: $3,650
Ideal Scope – HCA (min. 0.5 / máx. 2.0): 1.3 Excellent
Light return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintilation: Excellent
Spread: Very Good

thank you

Sorry typing so much, I hope someone would care and read it

 

[kenny]

Reject the rounds that score over 2.0 on the HCA.
Next get and Idealscope pic and compare it to this chart.



With the round shape these two tools make it easy to pick good cut.
You don't have to pay for a branded round.

 

[JulieN]

if you are asking if you can get a regular ideal cut that is as beautiful as a Lazare or BGD for a lower price, the answer is yes.

SI2 clarity grade drops the price a lot, you need to check with the vendor if it is eye-clean.

 

[denverappraiser]

Then I found this page http://www.gemnation.com/base?processor=getPage&pageName=cut
and it says what are the proportions must have a Premium Ideal Round diamond!

Note: This is not agreed upon information. In fact GIA and AGS have both specifically addressed this question and come out against it as a useful way to evaluate quality of cutting.

'Ideal' is a terribly misunderstood word in this business and frankly, this chart is an example of that. 'Premium' means whatever the seller wants it to mean.

 

[TC1987]

Brian Gavin used to work for / with Whiteflash, and he developed the standards for Whiteflash's ACA (A Cut Above) top-of-the-line diamonds. There is no need to run the HCA on either a Brian Gavin Diamond or a Whiteflash ACA.

I don't think there is any need to run the HCA on any diamond that has an AGS lab report and an AGS 000 cut grade. AGS 000 is a much tighter standard than GIA Excellent. The GIA Excellent grade is more lenient than the AGS 000 grade. You should run the HCA on GIA Excellent or Very Good cut grades.

James Allen has some diamonds in stock (in-house) but some stones they list are with the cutters and would have to be called in. That affects the pricing, and probably helps to keep it lower: JA doesn't own the stone. You'll also notice that SI1 doesn't have a full lab report (it has just a GIA Dossier) and JA has not posted IdealScope or ASET images on each and every diamond. There's a dark inclusion in the table of that SI1 from JA, and I think that it can be seen. I'd question whether it should really have been graded SI2. Dark inclusions in the table area really have to be evaluated by looking, because they might be seen at some critical angle, or they might appear to "float" in the diamond if you look at it tllted. Diamonds are graded face-up, only. You need to determine just how visible an inclusion is, from the side, at a tilt, looking through the pavilion, etc., if eyeclean from those directions is important to you.

You are less certain of what you are buying from any vendor who is acting more or less as a drop-shipper. You, the buyer, have to do more work to select a top-performing diamond. The vendors who charge more money for diamonds have also done more of that study and documentation for you. You might also be satisfied with a Very Good or Premium cut grade. Those are decisions that only you can make.

 

[WinkHPD]

It is a shame you are not able to compare two or more of the stones at the same time.

If you were able to do a "blind taste test" by having someone put two or more stones on a slotted trey and not tell you which is which, you would find that in most cases one or another would appeal to you more than the others.

Even though all stones might have the same cut grade on paper, in real life they will not look identical. More often, it is diamond from a house that takes the time to hand select their diamonds that will look the best to you. They may both have an HCA of 0.9, but there will be a reason why BGD put one in his top sort, and another in his secondary sort.

If you could see them both side by side, especially without knowing which was which, then you could rank them according to YOUR EYE and then decide if the difference in beauty was worth the difference in price, TO YOU!

In today's world diamond prices are very competitive and although some branded stones will be more than the run of the mill stones of the same cut grade (There is a top and a bottom of every grade you know) you will be very surprised at the difference in beauty that often goes along with the price.

Wink

 

[diamond-enthusiast]

Lazare diamonds are generally well cut but they are not the best. Being that a premium is paid for a "perfecty" cut diamond, getting diamond that isn't that well cut is not something that makes sense.

 

[Roxy]

It is a shame you are not able to compare two or more of the stones at the same time.

If you were able to do a "blind taste test" by having someone put two or more stones on a slotted trey and not tell you which is which, you would find that in most cases one or another would appeal to you more than the others.

Even though all stones might have the same cut grade on paper, in real life they will not look identical. More often, it is diamond from a house that takes the time to hand select their diamonds that will look the best to you. They may both have an HCA of 0.9, but there will be a reason why BGD put one in his top sort, and another in his secondary sort.

If you could see them both side by side, especially without knowing which was which, then you could rank them according to YOUR EYE and then decide if the difference in beauty was worth the difference in price, TO YOU!

In today's world diamond prices are very competitive and although some branded stones will be more than the run of the mill stones of the same cut grade (There is a top and a bottom of every grade you know) you will be very surprised at the difference in beauty that often goes along with the price.

Wink

Thanks Wink! This question comes up (in different forms) often, & this explanation really hits the mark (for me at least ) so thank you!

 

[Christina...]

The gemnation chart you posted only lists table and depth percentages which would be a really bad way of selecting a well cut diamond. All angles must be considered and must work in harmony with each other to produce 'ideal' light performance. Even the HCA only accounts for table depth pavilion and crown angles and should only be used to eliminate likely poor performers. It should never be used as a selection tool nor was it designed for that purpose. Its important to work with a vendor that can assess the stone for you and determine its light performance and that there are no transparency issues due to inclusions such as twining wisps and or clouds and whether or not the stone is eye clean..if that is important to you.