Lawyers of PS....I could use some help!

[audball]

My FF and I are house hunting. Our lease is up in June and sometime between now and then, we''ll be making an offer! We''ve found some places and now it''s time to work on some legalities.

Here''s what I need the help on: we want to have some papers drawn up to state what we would do in the event of a breakup/separation etc. We''ve talked about how we would handle such a situation but want it to be legal while we''re happy and in agreement about it. Hopefully such a thing will never be necessary or required, but realistically, you just never know. We have a lot of school left, and we''re what most would consider to be pretty young still (early 20s). We just want to both be protected in the event our relationship dissolves.

What exactly do we need to do in order to have this done? Is there a particular type of lawyer we should seek out? How much can we expect to pay for this service?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

TIA!

 

[kenny]

Assuming you are in USA, I suspect laws may vary from state to state.
Knowing all 50 would be overwhelming.

 

[CNOS128]

Hi Aud! I''m not a lawyer, but I am in law school.

So, you''re kind of looking for a prenuptial agreement, without the nuptials? I guess they''d call this a "property agreement." Kenny''s right in that "family law" (that''s the umbrella this would fall under) is largely state-based. I would seek the advice of a family lawyer -- but you might need to each get your own lawyers for this to be an enforceable agreement. You might also look at a book such as this one.


Good luck!

 

[audball]

Good point, kenny. I''m in Hillsborough County FL if that helps. Any lawyer recs would be appreciated too.

 

[Iowa Lizzy]

I was kind of in the same situation as you. My fiancé and I bought a house this last summer. Since his credit is far better than mine, we didn't put my name on the mortgage so we could get the best interest rate. But since I paid for the entire 20% down payment, I knew I needed to be protected.

We ended up have a quit-claim deed drawn up. I don't have a copy of it with me, but I thing the gist is that the house is mine AND his. He's ultimately responsible or making the mortgage payment every month, but I'm on the deed. We had talks with a real estate attorney at length and he said it was the best deal for me. We will also have a pre-nuptial agreement drawn up before we get married that will address the house as well. I don't recall what I paid our lawyer for putting it together but it wasn't much.

I think it's great that you are being smart about this! Sorry I don't have more info for you!

ETA: We were connected to the real estate lawyer by our realtor. She said he handles a lot of their corporate deals. If you're looking for one, I would ask your realtor for suggestions.

 

[Octavia]

Ha, I'm taking family law this semester and we're discussing cohabitation agreements (or lack thereof) right now. I still can't really help you, but either a real estate lawyer or a family lawyer would be a good place to start. If you're mostly worried about the house itself, a real estate lawyer can probably do the job. If you have other co-mingled assets (bank accounts, furniture and other furnishings, a car, etc.) you might want a cohabitation agreement, as well. You wouldn't necessarily need a lawyer for that -- just find out if you need witnesses to your signatures or if the law requires anything special for it to be enforceable and it will probably be okay -- but if you have sizable other assets, it could be worth it to get a family lawyer to draw it up.

Good for you for protecting yourself! It's so much better to think ahead, I'm sure you'll be much more comfortable with the purchase knowing that everything will be fair and above-board

 

[winternight]

^^
This is not legal advice, but I do seem to think there are issues with having a non-recorded deed, like your quit claim. I''m assuming at least its not recorded? For example, in the case the house is sold by your fiance if you aren''t on the deed of record....

Any agreement is going to be as good as your ability to collect. So if one party walks away/trashes credit, etc., then you''re still on the hook. If the property crashes in value, you break up and he decides to walk what can do. Granted Florida property may only have so much further to fall.

 

[megumic]

It sounds to me (a law student) like you''re looking for a joint tenancy or tenancy in common. A JT has the right of survivorship, so if one party dies the other party has the right to enjoy the whole house. A TIC does not have the right of survivorship, so ones half would go to their estate in the event of death.

A JT requires that: you both "purchase" your half at the same time, you''re both indicated on the deed/title to the home, you both have equal interests in the home, and you both have equal rights to use and possess the home. This way, no matter if you dissolve the relationship, if one maintains the household and the other vacates, you each own half and one would have to buy the other out, since you technically both have rights to the whole home.

This is just parlance to explain the terms and types of tenancies - I have no idea what kind of document you''d need. I''d talk to a real estate attorney about the types of documents and which would best fit your needs.

 

[tradergirl]

Bad time to be buying a house. You really should wait a few more years. You''ll get a lot more for the money.

www.patrick.net

 

[audball]

Date: 2/18/2010 8:14:17 AM
Author: megumic
It sounds to me (a law student) like you''re looking for a joint tenancy or tenancy in common. A JT has the right of survivorship, so if one party dies the other party has the right to enjoy the whole house. A TIC does not have the right of survivorship, so ones half would go to their estate in the event of death.

A JT requires that: you both ''purchase'' your half at the same time, you''re both indicated on the deed/title to the home, you both have equal interests in the home, and you both have equal rights to use and possess the home. This way, no matter if you dissolve the relationship, if one maintains the household and the other vacates, you each own half and one would have to buy the other out, since you technically both have rights to the whole home.

This is just parlance to explain the terms and types of tenancies - I have no idea what kind of document you''d need. I''d talk to a real estate attorney about the types of documents and which would best fit your needs.

This sounds like what we may want. We want right to survivorship, heaven forbid anything happen to either of us, we don''t want our families stepping in and making it harder for the person who''s left behind.

 

[audball]

Date: 2/17/2010 10:07:17 PM
Author: TheBigT
Hi Aud! I''m not a lawyer, but I am in law school.

So, you''re kind of looking for a prenuptial agreement, without the nuptials? I guess they''d call this a ''property agreement.'' Kenny''s right in that ''family law'' (that''s the umbrella this would fall under) is largely state-based. I would seek the advice of a family lawyer -- but you might need to each get your own lawyers for this to be an enforceable agreement. You might also look at a book such as this one.


Good luck!

Thanks for the book selection! I''ll check that out.

 

[audball]

Date: 2/18/2010 8:30:23 AM
Author: tradergirl
Bad time to be buying a house. You really should wait a few more years. You''ll get a lot more for the money.

www.patrick.net

We''ll be in the house long enough it should at least come back to what we plan on paying for it and in the meantime will save us a lot of money. We''re currently paying $1408/month to rent a 2/2. We''re looking at a 3/2 for $107,500. Our mortgage with the downpayment and interest rate we''ve got will be under $600, taxes, insurance, and interest will have us paying ~$900/month. To OWN a house that we can change and alter in any way we please on a 1/4 acre. We''re happy with our decision to buy and comfortable with what we''ll get at our price point. Thank you for your input, but buying a house is a good thing for us *now*.

 

[audball]

Date: 2/17/2010 10:52:40 PM
Author: Travel Goddess
I was kind of in the same situation as you. My fiancé and I bought a house this last summer. Since his credit is far better than mine, we didn''t put my name on the mortgage so we could get the best interest rate. But since I paid for the entire 20% down payment, I knew I needed to be protected.

We ended up have a quit-claim deed drawn up. I don''t have a copy of it with me, but I thing the gist is that the house is mine AND his. He''s ultimately responsible or making the mortgage payment every month, but I''m on the deed. We had talks with a real estate attorney at length and he said it was the best deal for me. We will also have a pre-nuptial agreement drawn up before we get married that will address the house as well. I don''t recall what I paid our lawyer for putting it together but it wasn''t much.

I think it''s great that you are being smart about this! Sorry I don''t have more info for you!

ETA: We were connected to the real estate lawyer by our realtor. She said he handles a lot of their corporate deals. If you''re looking for one, I would ask your realtor for suggestions.

I see, our credit is equally good and we''re going in half/half so it''ll be a little different. My realtor gave me the name of a family lawyer that''s a friend of hers when I started asking her about it. We''ll see what she says. Thanks!

 

[audball]

Date: 2/17/2010 11:38:08 PM
Author: Octavia
Ha, I''m taking family law this semester and we''re discussing cohabitation agreements (or lack thereof) right now. I still can''t really help you, but either a real estate lawyer or a family lawyer would be a good place to start. If you''re mostly worried about the house itself, a real estate lawyer can probably do the job. If you have other co-mingled assets (bank accounts, furniture and other furnishings, a car, etc.) you might want a cohabitation agreement, as well. You wouldn''t necessarily need a lawyer for that -- just find out if you need witnesses to your signatures or if the law requires anything special for it to be enforceable and it will probably be okay -- but if you have sizable other assets, it could be worth it to get a family lawyer to draw it up.

Good for you for protecting yourself! It''s so much better to think ahead, I''m sure you''ll be much more comfortable with the purchase knowing that everything will be fair and above-board

We do have some co-mingled assests (all for the house, furniture, linens, etc). We''ll likely move to a three bank account system when we buy a place too, one joint just for bills, and a personal one each. We''ll figure out the % of our total income goes towards house stuff plus whatever else we want to be saving for, and have that percentage come from each of our checks into the joint account. The rest into our personal accounts for what we want to do/have individually. So a bank account could come into play.

 

[lulu]

You need joint tenancy plus a cohabitation agreement. Make an appointment with a family lawyer.

 

[audball]

Date: 2/18/2010 9:52:11 AM
Author: lulu
You need joint tenancy plus a cohabitation agreement. Make an appointment with a family lawyer.

Thanks lulu!

 

[audball]

Date: 2/18/2010 9:53:05 AM
Author: audball

Date: 2/18/2010 9:52:11 AM
Author: lulu
You need joint tenancy plus a cohabitation agreement. Make an appointment with a family lawyer.

Thanks lulu!

One other question...do we each need our own lawyers for this or can we use one?

 

[mayachel]

Hello, we bought our home before we were engaged (though the expectation was there). I am not a lawyer but my partner is. We have equally excellent credit, though he had substantially more savings then I did. I contributed 20% of the 25% down on our home. Both of us were at the closing, and both of us are named equally on the mortgage and deed. We went with Tennants In Common, so that in the event of his death, the house would not become soley my responsibility. At the time, I had just returned to school for my MS, and would not have been able to make the monthly mortgage payment for long. With our agreement, I was only responsible for 20% of the mortgage payment, and his estate is responsible for the rest of it. Importantly, we didn''t/still don''t anticipate problems with either of our families in these areas. Our plan post-wedding is to become equal 50/50 and dissolve the TIC.

Protection against us splitting up, with a TIC agreement neither of us are allowed to make any changes to big things like the mortgage or sale of the home without the others signature.

 

[wyndham]

Date: 2/18/2010 9:53:51 AM
Author: audball

Date: 2/18/2010 9:53:05 AM
Author: audball

Date: 2/18/2010 9:52:11 AM
Author: lulu
You need joint tenancy plus a cohabitation agreement. Make an appointment with a family lawyer.

Thanks lulu!

One other question...do we each need our own lawyers for this or can we use one?

Hi Audball,

I believe that in order for the agreement to ever be upheld, you each need to have separate counsel / representation. I''ve heard great things about Older & Lundy in Tampa (http://www.olderlundylaw.com/) -- not sure if that''s too far away for you.

I think you''re really smart to look into protecting both you and your FF like this. Good luck!

 

[audball]

Date: 2/18/2010 10:36:59 AM
Author: wyndham

Date: 2/18/2010 9:53:51 AM
Author: audball

Date: 2/18/2010 9:53:05 AM
Author: audball

Date: 2/18/2010 9:52:11 AM
Author: lulu
You need joint tenancy plus a cohabitation agreement. Make an appointment with a family lawyer.

Thanks lulu!

One other question...do we each need our own lawyers for this or can we use one?

Hi Audball,

I believe that in order for the agreement to ever be upheld, you each need to have separate counsel / representation. I''ve heard great things about Older & Lundy in Tampa (http://www.olderlundylaw.com/) -- not sure if that''s too far away for you.

I think you''re really smart to look into protecting both you and your FF like this. Good luck!

Thanks for the rec! Would we be able to use different lawyers each from the same firm or is that some sort of conflict of interest? The firm you recommended isn''t far from us.

 

[audball]

Date: 2/18/2010 10:36:27 AM
Author: mayachel
Hello, we bought our home before we were engaged (though the expectation was there). I am not a lawyer but my partner is. We have equally excellent credit, though he had substantially more savings then I did. I contributed 20% of the 25% down on our home. Both of us were at the closing, and both of us are named equally on the mortgage and deed. We went with Tennants In Common, so that in the event of his death, the house would not become soley my responsibility. At the time, I had just returned to school for my MS, and would not have been able to make the monthly mortgage payment for long. With our agreement, I was only responsible for 20% of the mortgage payment, and his estate is responsible for the rest of it. Importantly, we didn''t/still don''t anticipate problems with either of our families in these areas. Our plan post-wedding is to become equal 50/50 and dissolve the TIC.

Protection against us splitting up, with a TIC agreement neither of us are allowed to make any changes to big things like the mortgage or sale of the home without the others signature.

Ah, I see. I think for us the Joint Tennants with rights to survivorship would be better. Both sides of our family can be sort of money hungry and I''m afraid a difficult situation could be made worse without us being protected. We will both be putting in 50/50 for everything and right now our bills our double what thenew place would be and we''re each paying half so we''d be able to afford it each on our own if necessary.

 

[mayachel]

Yup, can''t choose your family

but you can choose how to get past them! Congratulations on what sounds like a wonderful step in your relationship as well as an amazing opportunity for a new home.

 

[Octavia]

Date: 2/18/2010 11:22:02 AM
Author: audball

Date: 2/18/2010 10:36:59 AM

Author: wyndham

Date: 2/18/2010 9:53:51 AM

Author: audball

Date: 2/18/2010 9:53:05 AM

Author: audball

Date: 2/18/2010 9:52:11 AM

Author: lulu

You need joint tenancy plus a cohabitation agreement. Make an appointment with a family lawyer.

Thanks lulu!

One other question...do we each need our own lawyers for this or can we use one?

Hi Audball,


I believe that in order for the agreement to ever be upheld, you each need to have separate counsel / representation. I''ve heard great things about Older & Lundy in Tampa (http://www.olderlundylaw.com/) -- not sure if that''s too far away for you.


I think you''re really smart to look into protecting both you and your FF like this. Good luck!

Thanks for the rec! Would we be able to use different lawyers each from the same firm or is that some sort of conflict of interest? The firm you recommended isn''t far from us.

Audball, all the lawyers in a firm are considered to be "one lawyer" for conflict of interest purposes. But I''m sure that if you call whatever firm you choose and explain the situation, they will have a good recommendation on how you should deal with it, probably with referrals to other lawyers they have successfully worked with in the past who could represent the other of you. Your best bet, now that you have a general understanding of what you might want to do, is just to talk to an expert -- I''m sure they''ve done this type of thing a hundred times, so the procedures should be pretty straightforward. If, on the other hand, they have no idea what you''re talking about, that''s a clue to go somewhere else!

 

[audball]

Thanks everyone!! I knew PSers would point me in the right direction!!