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Late Talking and the risk...

Pandora II

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When kids talk so doesn't make any difference in the long-run.

My husband and I were both very early talkers as was our daughter. On the other hand, my BIL didn't talk until 3 (first words: 'Oh look mummy, electricity pylon...' :-o ) and he has a MA from Cambridge and an MBA from Kellogg. My brother didn't speak till he was 3 and is now has an MA and is a lawyer in London. Neither of my sister's first two children spoke till they were over 30 months - and she is a speech pathologist!

To be honest I'd almost guess that the weird ones are the very early talkers (or rather our brothers and sisters are all more normal than DH and I!)
 

lizzyann

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Thanks for posting this HOT! And to pandora for talking about her experience.

My DS is 26 months old and is in Early Intervention (Birth to 3) for a speech delay. They think he may have aproxia, but aren't quite sure yet. He does not do any groping in his mouth but he does shorten words. Personally, I think he's just a late talker. He has been learning new words every day and attempting more words which is a huge success. But along the way, his specialists have mentioned autism, which frightened me. When tested though, he did not test on the autism scale. I am thankful to have him working with a speech pathologist but at the same time, I feel like they are trying to diagnose him with something. He is close to having 50 words now and is starting to put two words together. I am happy with his progress, but of course I worry that he won't be able to catch up for school.

Anyone else go thru something similar? I appreciate the links HOT!
 

Lanie

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lizzyann -- when did you start to notice that something was not right? I'm just curious.

My nephew was a very late talker, and when he did talk, no one, including his parents, could really understand him. He was put in speech therapy, but that didn't do much. His hearing was checked and still nothing. To make a long story short, he was diagnosed with epilepsy and was having mild seizures that we all noticed, but thought was something else (that's a whole other story). Anyway, not saying that's the case with your son, but it could be something that has been overlooked. My nephew is on medication, has repeated the first grade, and is doing much, much better. I hope your son continues to improve. On a lighter note, I found a T-shirt online that says "I heard Einstein was a late talker". :cheeky: http://www.honestbaby.com/tshirts2b.php?qs1=eins
 

Puppmom

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I think there's a big difference between not being able to talk and just not talking. My niece has Apraxia. Her efforts to speak are very obvious and, even at 3.5 years old, it's near impossible to understand her. I also think there are some kids who are perfectly content to not speak. I would be more worried if my child were clearly attempting to communicate with me but was having obvious difficulty.

I have a love/hate relationship with these milestone charts telling you when kids *should* do something. I hate them because they stress out over-anxious parents (like me!). BUT, I think early intervention is so important for kids who do have a true delay and could benefit.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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It's also important to remember that girls develop faster than bolys, especially with cognitive things like speech. I think the average is 3 months? So if you're a worrier like Pupp and I, we freak out thinking our kid is delayed based on the charts, but they're not.

I've also heard that those who talk and walk later have a tendency to be more intellectually gifted. It's like their brain is too busy taking everything in and processing it to focus on gross motor. My friend didn't walk until she was almost 24 months and she's now an engineer with a PhD. I want to say she might have had a speech delay as well, but she's totally normal and social now :) Though I suppose the term "normal" is subjective....lol
 

lizzyann

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Lanie, I like that T-shirt! At my son's 18 month appt, myself and my Dr. felt he was not behind at all in any areas. But then around 21 months, I felt he wasn't doing as much verbal imitation as some of the children his age. At that point I mentioned it to my pediatrician and she said that she would recommend an assessment at early intervention. When he was 22 months, his verbal expression was at a level of 14 months. he was only slightly behind on his receptive. He also had his hearing checked and was all clear. All other areas he was within the range of normal. He was even ahead of the curve on walking, running, stairs, kicking, all of that. My son has close to 50 words now and says those pretty clearly. Some newer words though aren't as clear but I am hoping that he'll sharpen them up. Sometimes he won't say the first part of the word like instead of saying "o-pen", he'll just say "pen" and skip the "o", even though he can say "uh oh" clear as day. For "help" he says "pa". For "cup" he says "pup". He has a harder time with vowels then with consonants. But I am seeing progress with early intervention. He does have an appt with his pediatrician next week as I have noticed that when he gets really excited about something he'll shake a little. But it's only when he's excited.

Puppmom, sorry to hear about your niece having apraxia. I hope she is at least getting the services she needs to keep working on her speech. Poor thing. Are you able to understand any of her words? My coordinator and OT do not think my DS has apraxia or autism, but for some reason my speech therapist is pushing to try to diagnose him with something. She is right out of college and I sometimes wonder if she wants to just be the first to "diagnose" my son. I'm trying to not get too worked up about it as it seems everytime I see her she has a new theory.

Hudson, all good points. When my son was first assessed with early intervention, my leader said that there is a link with walking and talking. She said that there is a huge correlation. Basically Early Walker = Late Talker. My son was considered early as he started walking at 10 months. I also try not to get too worked up but it is hard as I am a worrier and I just want him to catch back up you know?

Oh one more thing to note is that my DS is getting more and more social as he starts to talk more which is so nice to see! He attends the EI playgroups and has been doing really great. One of the reasons that my speech therapist mentioned autism is because he likes to play with cars. But it isn't the obsessive wheels watching kinda thing. My coordinator was irritated with my speech therapist for saying autism as in my coordinator's words "little boys like to play with cars and that's ok!!!" So anyways, it has been hard worrying about my little man. I wish I could see the future and know that he is going to be ok. Thanks for listening everyone!
 

partgypsy

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I think each situation is individual. My younger brother was practically mute until he was 4?. I still remember the family was around the dinner table talking amongst ourselves and he said "will you pass the salt?" and we were in shock. My mother jokes he didn't want to talk until he could talk like the rest of us.

My youngest daughter was slow to talk and preferred to point and do other things to make her needs known. When she did start talking, in addition to being hard to understand also stuttered. What was strange is our older daughter understood her better than we (her parents) did, so often she was the translator.

I was concerned but I didn't end up going to a specialist because the pediatrician said she was in the normal range, and I remembered my brother's situation. Both my brother and youngest daughter were/are thumb suckers, so I'm not sure if that is related? She is 4 going on 5 and is much better and outgrowing the stutter except when she gets excited. Now I need to start working on the thumb sucking :tongue:

But I'm sure there are cases where intervention is needed so I think parents need to follow their gut. If I didn't grow up around my lil brother I would have definitely dragged my daughter to a specialist.
 

MonkeyPie

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lizzyann|1309916280|2962406 said:
When my son was first assessed with early intervention, my leader said that there is a link with walking and talking. She said that there is a huge correlation. Basically Early Walker = Late Talker. My son was considered early as he started walking at 10 months. I also try not to get too worked up but it is hard as I am a worrier and I just want him to catch back up you know?
I know it's easy for me to say, because it isn't MY child, but please try not to worry and just take your time getting him assessed in whatever way you feel will help the most. The whole "early walker = late talker" thing is rather silly, because it's an assumption based on what she has seen/known, as opposed to what is normal for YOUR child. (I could tell you that my son walked at 10 months too, and he talks a lot and very clearly. But anecdotes really help no one.) You said he is already improving and has 50 words that he speaks clear and well, so I think you're doing all the right things already! :))
 

Pandora II

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Ditto MP on the whole early walker = late talker. My daughter started walking at 10 months and already had around 20 words by that time. Looking at my MIL's week-by-week diary my husband was pretty equal with her. Looking at my friends children it seems to be more that the late walkers are also late talkers.

If your son has 50 words at 26 months I really don't think you need to worry and I'm sure he will have caught up by the time he goes to school. Most kids seem to have phases where they don't progress much and then suddenly seem to learn 20 new words a day ditto for motor skills.

One thing that very definitely slows down talking is if the child has a pacifier. My brother's son doesn't speak a single word yet at 18 months - but then his paci appeared to be a body-part until 2 weeks ago. I'd asked my sister about it and she said it was probably one of the major factors in his total lack of speech.

The other thing that has an influence is hearing and general issues with ears - things like glue ear can really have a big effect.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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glue ear?
 

Hudson_Hawk

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Ah, gotcha.
 

Puppmom

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Lizzy, they believe my niece's apraxia is caused by hypotonia. He poor muscle tone didn't allow her to form her mouth in the way necessary to make certain sounds. So, it's not just that she couldn't *talk*, she couldn't even make certain sounds. Sometimes, I can understand her but it's usually when she's singing and only because she has the tune, I can assume the words. I don't know if this makes sense but it sounds like she's speaking German - it's very throaty and lots of words have the K sound at the end that shouldn't. She's not discouraged though - she blabbers away like you can understand her!

She's not officially diagnosed with anything else but unfortunately does exibit some signs of autism - flapping, isolating herself, aversions to certain textures and feels. And she throws the nastiest fits! She is 3 though! :bigsmile: My sister (not her mom) works with Autistic and Apraxic children and has mentioned this but my sister (her mom) just won't hear it . Fortunately, she already receives physical, occupational and speech therapy through early interverntion which is probably what they would do for her if she were diagnosed as Autistic anyway.
 

Tacori E-ring

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I think this study is interesting because it says late talkers = more social and behavioral problems. With the high rate of Autism I wonder how many participants were on the Autism spectrum. That may account for the social and behavioral issues and the late talking was a mere symptom for a greater issue. Also, it makes sense that children who have trouble communicating WOULD have social problems (there are cliques even in preschool) and behavioral problems BECAUSE they are frustrated.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Tacori E-ring|1310059318|2963886 said:
I think this study is interesting because it says late talkers = more social and behavioral problems. With the high rate of Autism I wonder how many participants were on the Autism spectrum. That may account for the social and behavioral issues and the late talking was a mere symptom for a greater issue. Also, it makes sense that children who have trouble communicating WOULD have social problems (there are cliques even in preschool) and behavioral problems BECAUSE they are frustrated.
My thoughts are along this line.

RE: the link between walking and talking. There is research recently to suggest that crawling for long periods promotes communication between the left and right hemispheres of the brain because it involves moving the left leg and right are, and vice versa, at the same time. The longer a child crawls seems to predict facility at skills that involve communication between the two parts of the brain. For example, my aunt is a piano teacher and when she has a student having trouble with reading the music and moving the fingers (a left/right brain communication thing) she actually assigns them to practice crawling! And it helps! Anyways, very early walkers miss this period of left/right brain communication, unless they also crawled a lot prior to walking. And that could affect speech, as that process also involved L/R brain communication. Just thinking out loud, but it seems probable there could be a correlation between the two acts.

Lizzy I am surprised that your son is in an intervention so young. If he has words beginning now, it is still in the developmental norms as far as I know, if at the tail. I have two friends with kids who talked around that age. One friend had a son who at 2 years had no words at all, and by 2.5 had started saying a few words, and by 3 was basically full verbal (if not a chatter box, ya know?). Another friend had a daughter on about the same path. Neither had any interventions. So I would say enjoy the extra attention, but don't worry until you need to, right? Most likely he is fine. ETA: And he sounds basically like Hunter in many respects, just with language a little behind. I think Hunter was at that stage in language around 22 months? But he was ahead of his peers in language at that age. But he still makes odd mistakes. He can say "D" but says "Goggy" for "Doggy" and recently he has started stuttering when he starts a sentence with "I" and some other things. I think his mind gets ahead of his tongue. If your son has 50 words that seems in line with some other kids I know. As I said, it is the tails of the normal distribution but I can't see how it is cause for so much concern? Your speech therapist sounds annoying frankly ;)) But I am no expert on this stuff. I know its hard not to worry as a parent.
 

Puppmom

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RE: the link between walking and talking. There is research recently to suggest that crawling for long periods promotes communication between the left and right hemispheres of the brain because it involves moving the left leg and right are, and vice versa, at the same time. The longer a child crawls seems to predict facility at skills that involve communication between the two parts of the brain. For example, my aunt is a piano teacher and when she has a student having trouble with reading the music and moving the fingers (a left/right brain communication thing) she actually assigns them to practice crawling! And it helps! Anyways, very early walkers miss this period of left/right brain communication, unless they also crawled a lot prior to walking. And that could affect speech, as that process also involved L/R brain communication. Just thinking out loud, but it seems probable there could be a correlation between the two acts.


This is interesting since it seems more and more kids skip crawling. It'll be interesing to see how DS develops - at 11 months, he's not crawling but can stand on his own and is cruising. He's recently learned that holding on to my pant legs is a good way to get around!
 

hawaiianorangetree

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Tacori E-ring|1310059318|2963886 said:
I think this study is interesting because it says late talkers = more social and behavioral problems. With the high rate of Autism I wonder how many participants were on the Autism spectrum. That may account for the social and behavioral issues and the late talking was a mere symptom for a greater issue. Also, it makes sense that children who have trouble communicating WOULD have social problems (there are cliques even in preschool) and behavioral problems BECAUSE they are frustrated.

Knowing the researches personally, I'm willing to bet my left kidney that any participants who were on the autism spectrum would have been removed from the equation for the purposes of this study. ;)) I'm also not sure where you got late talking = more social and behavioural problems as the results showed that a language delay at 2 was not associated with behavioral and emotional problems at 5, 8, 10, 14 or 17? :confused:

Lizzy, I would say that your son is doing pretty well! Kids should have around 50 words and be stringing 2-3 words together by the time they are 24 months of age, but please remember, 'normal' is a large variation of that. From what you have said he isn't very far behind the bench mark at all. 80% of late talkers 'catch up' by the time they reach school age, so he has plenty of time!
 

hawaiianorangetree

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Also, it is completely normal to have articulation errors at a young age, such as the 'G' for 'D' sound and some errors are age appropriate until the age of nearly 8. most kids 'grow out' of it and correct it themselves. Of course once they get older and they are still making these errors, then you can always seek a speech therapist if you are concerned.

I spoke to a leading professor in the language development field about articulation errors in children and the need for early intervention. I was kind of shocked when she said it really wasn't that important and that one of her colleges who was in his 60's and was also at the top of his field would speak about "wascally wabbits" and that he had managed just fine with his articulation error of "w" for "r". Not that I completely agree with her view but I guess it's nice to know that articulation errors aren't going to stop you from getting to the top of your chosen field. :))

Dreamer, I agree that stuttering like that can be caused by too much going on in the head and not being able to get it out fast enough. I see it fairly regularly and I find asking the child to stop, think about what it is they want to say (or form their sentence in their head, depending on their age) and then saying it, really helps.
 

misssoph

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Dear Lizzyann
My now 4 year and 3 month old son was diagnosed with apraxia of speech a couple of years ago associated with really quite severe general motor dsyspraxia.He had feeding problems as a baby, breast feeding was always a struggle,and he needed a soft/mushy diet for a long time, as he just didnt seem to be able to move food around his mouth correctly. He is "unco" in the old playground phrase! and terribly accident prone. He has sensory processing issues and is still not toilet trained as he doesnt seem to be able to work out when he needs to go though he sits on the toilet a lot.He has truly monumental tantrums, usually in public, and his behaviour is frequently dreadful.
Diagnosis is him was muddled by a conductive hearing loss of 65 decibels (ie cant hear speech) when he was a couple of months old. He now hears well after a number of ENT operations, but these ops were delayed at times because of his asthma so there were periods of months when he couldnt hear. He has had delayed auditory processing, eg you could count the seconds between saying something and him appearing to register it. This is now much better and for the last couple of years his receptive language has seemed ok and he has been able to follow complex instructions as long as you allowed for that few seconds wait..
He never babbled or made "baby noises". At 3 and a half years he had 5 or 6 words total and we used an augmented communication program which we downloaded on an ipod touch which was attached to his belt, so he could communicate some of his wishes to help with the frustration and tantrums.He used this for about 6 months and is was great.
It was totally bizarre, over a period of several weeks starting when he was 3 years8 months his expressive language just exploded. At 4 he was speaking in complete sentances with all the connecting word like and,then, with etc. Now at 4 years 3 months he has an extensive vocabulary, uses the past tense and pronouns. He has still got problems answering questions unless you give him a lot of time and doesnt ask questions yet, a lot of his speech is commenting and describing rather than interactive conversations. He is getting there.
While he is getting there he is not at the level of his age peers and we have decided not to worry about sending him to school the year kids his age would normally go and just send him the following year so he can have a better start.
Dear Hawaiin orange tree It is great to see some data about long term outcomes. I do worry however that studies such as this will be used as arguments tofurther cut funding for intervention services for all kids with language delay. I live in Perth the city where this study was done and despite my sons severe language delay it took 15 months on the waiting list for him to be offered speech therapy in the public system! Fortunately we have been in a financial position to fund weekly speech therapy ourselves, but most people arent.
 

hawaiianorangetree

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Missoph, I live in Perth too. That's an interesting question about whether a paper like this is going to affect future funding for intervention services for kids with language delay. My understanding is the point of this paper is to help put parents at ease over the worrying that language delay can cause, not strip funding from those who need it, that's certainly not the intention of a research institute vested in child health and developmental disorders, although I can see where you are coming from.
The waiting times are ridiculous and is an area that certainly could benefit from more funding and improvement in the public sector, but with a handful of speechies graduating each year and low retention rates it's not that surprising that the wait is so long. Your son sounds like he is improving on a daily basis, which must be encouraging for you. Have you looked into enrolling him at a Language Development Centre rather than an ordinary school? Just a thought. :))
 

dreamer_dachsie

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hawaiianorangetree|1310126815|2964546 said:
Tacori E-ring|1310059318|2963886 said:
I think this study is interesting because it says late talkers = more social and behavioral problems. With the high rate of Autism I wonder how many participants were on the Autism spectrum. That may account for the social and behavioral issues and the late talking was a mere symptom for a greater issue. Also, it makes sense that children who have trouble communicating WOULD have social problems (there are cliques even in preschool) and behavioral problems BECAUSE they are frustrated.

Knowing the researches personally, I'm willing to bet my left kidney that any participants who were on the autism spectrum would have been removed from the equation for the purposes of this study. ;)) I'm also not sure where you got late talking = more social and behavioural problems as the results showed that a language delay at 2 was not associated with behavioral and emotional problems at 5, 8, 10, 14 or 17? :confused:
If I am not mistaken in interpreting the findings, the link between late talking and social/behavior issues was concurrent (i.e., both in existence at age 2/3) and not longitudinal. This does fit the notion of a "frustration" explanation for the link between language abilities and social/behavioral issues, since the language issue must be actively present to see behavioral problems. It does not support the notion of autism or another pervasive developmental issue, which presumably would still be affecting kids at an older age.

The definition of "late talkers" is very generous in the study, identified as the lowest 15%. Seems a wide swath of kids. I did not see the actual data, but I would have liked to see a regression approach used to data analysis perhaps, rather than a dichotomous apporoach like the authors used :cheeky: I wonder if there were perhaps non-linear relations hidden in their results. For example, the poorest 1% or 2% may have had problems later, but not the 10% or better kids. Or there could have been interactions between late talking and other variables. Its funny, in psychology we would have been expected to use methods like I describe to analyze data, but group methods like those reported seem more common in medicine and other fields.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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hawaiianorangetree|1310127947|2964558 said:
Also, it is completely normal to have articulation errors at a young age, such as the 'G' for 'D' sound and some errors are age appropriate until the age of nearly 8. most kids 'grow out' of it and correct it themselves. Of course once they get older and they are still making these errors, then you can always seek a speech therapist if you are concerned.

I spoke to a leading professor in the language development field about articulation errors in children and the need for early intervention. I was kind of shocked when she said it really wasn't that important and that one of her colleges who was in his 60's and was also at the top of his field would speak about "wascally wabbits" and that he had managed just fine with his articulation error of "w" for "r". Not that I completely agree with her view but I guess it's nice to know that articulation errors aren't going to stop you from getting to the top of your chosen field. :))

Dreamer, I agree that stuttering like that can be caused by too much going on in the head and not being able to get it out fast enough. I see it fairly regularly and I find asking the child to stop, think about what it is they want to say (or form their sentence in their head, depending on their age) and then saying it, really helps.
Good to know! He's only 28 months so right now we are basically just ignoring it all, but we'll see how things progress I guess!
 

diamondseeker2006

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My background is special ed with a lot of work on speech and language due to working with hearing impaired children. I was pretty in tune with early language development and was certain there was something terribly wrong with my sister's 2nd child because she wasn't talking at age 3. I would never go for intervention before that, but I do think age 3 is a good age to begin some assessment if the child is not talking. My sister didn't take my hint, but a few months later the child started talking at a completely normal developmental level! So I am reluctant to be too upset if there are no other issues besides late talking. If a child is on the autism spectrum, there are a lot of other symptoms present.
 

lizzyann

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Hi all! thanks for the info and for all of your stories. My DS was behind in both expressive and receptive speech when he was assessed at 22 months. However, since then he now has almost 50 words and follows simple directions i.e. close the door, go get your shoes, throw this in the trash, etc. His speech therapist was playing with a doll with him and he was doing very well doing pretend play by feeding the baby, hugging, kissing, etc. However, when she said to him "The baby is thirsty" he didn't understand to give the baby the juice cup. She thinks he does well with his direct commands and not indirect, but personally I just think that the word thirsty isn't in his vocabulary yet and didn't understand what was being asked of him. He doesn't tend to make choices verbally yet? If I held up an orange and an apple and asked him to pick one, he would. But if I were to just say to him, "Does Evan want the orange or the apple?" he would just respond with "apple", because it was the last word that I modeled for him, so he just repeats that. He says hi to all the kids now EVERYWHERE! Which I love! I still feel like my speech therapist thinks he may be on the autism spectrum, but based on my research and from conversations with my pediatrician, we just don't think so. I know this sounds bad, but my speech therapist literally just got out of college last year and I feel like she wants to be the one to diagnose him with something if that makes sense. I'm trying not to get too worked up about her but everytime we see her she has a new theory or issue. With regards to her view on autism, I just don't see it and his coordinator and OT don't see it. He does not flap or twirl or anything with his hands, he does pretend play, he does not walk on his toes, he is aware when people enter the room, when the door bell rings he runs to see who's there, he does not line things up, he does not take his cars and roll them back and forth and stare at the wheels. Sometimes he will choose to play by himself or withdrawal, but he also does play with the kids as well. But like my coordinator for EI said and what Tacori said, when kids are behind in verbal communication, they aren't usually as social. Makes sense to me...
 

lizzyann

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Diamondseeker, what would be the major red flags with kids with autism?

missoph, thanks for your story about your son! I am glad to hear that he is talking so much now! That is awesome! I'm still not sure that I am convinced if my DS has apraxia or not. My son never had a hard time eating or latching or anything. But the speech therapist says that because he sometimes changes the way he says things she thinks he has it. For example, sometimes for "please" he will say "peas" or "p", but is never consistent. And like I said he says "pup" for "cup" and "upa" for "up". What do you think? The speech therapist says he is on the mild side of apraxia. Who knows?

HOT, thanks for the encouragement. The important part to me is that he is making progress. He has been doing a ton of jargoning and the best part is when I hear real words in there too! He spontaneously says almost 50 words and another 20 he says after being modeled by me or the therapist. But I still feel like he is behind in processing. We have a book that is 100 first words and there are pics of all different things...ball, dog, shoes, etc. All things he knows and recognizes. When we see a dog outside, he says "dog", but when I show him the book and ask him to show mommy the dog, he doesn't normally do it. And eventually gets frustrated with that line of questioning. He does puzzles really well though so I am now taking a completed puzzle, holding it out in front of him and saying "Evan take the doggy out" and then "take the cat out" and he does that no problem, but for some reason he doesn't like books much and doesn't like to point to things when requested.

Dreamer, sometimes I wonder if I pulled the trigger too soon on the Early Intervention because I feel like they are on a mission to find something or the reason for the delay. Can't he just have a delay? Isn't that ok? He's just two for crying out loud! ya know?!! My speech therapist does annoy me but my DS is doing better so I don't want to get a new therapist. My coordinator gets annoyed with her because she constantly says that Evan (my DS) withdrawals after about 30 minutes into the session. But what two year old wants to sit and do speech exercises for an hour without a break for a couple minutes. My coordinator said that the speech therapist needs to recognize that at this age they are not going to sit still for an hour while doing flashcards and other speech related stuff. But my speech therapist does not have kids so I think that's why she doesn't get it!

Tacori, I 100% agree that kids with speech problems would have a hard time socializing. My son does both. He plays by himself and tends to play with kids he knows best.

Puppmom, when I researched apraxia I saw the info on hypotonia as well. I'm glad she's not discouraged and still talks lots for you. I hope she continues making progress with early intervention.

Pandora, thanks for the info and the encouragement. I feel like he is doing so much better and imitating a lot more words for us. He is not a thumb sucker and only used a paci till he was 8 months so that isn't a factor, but are definitely valid points. My main goal is to continue with EI and also work with him everyday on his speech. As long as progress is being made, I am more at ease.

Monkeypie, thank you! I think as moms we doubt ourselves too much and worry TOO MUCH!!! I try not to get too worked up about it all but it is hard!

Partgypsy, so interesting about your brother and daughter! How were their receptive speech skills? Like following directions?
 

partgypsy

Ideal_Rock
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Regarding the crawling/language I find this hard to believe. My mother didn't crawl AT ALL (unknown to her mom she had a broken arm) went straight to walking. She is one of the most erudite people I know.
Crawling is not per se a developmental milestone. Some children skip it entirely.

Lizzi, the receptive skills seemed great. What seems interesting is both my brother and younger child seem to have more "instrumental" smarts than strict verbal/intellectual smarts. Before she was a year old she could climb up and down ladders. As a toddler she figured out how to open the fridge to get food for herself, push chairs and climb up them to get things out of high cabinets, open latched doors. Some of her first toys were things like brooms and rakes and watering pots because if she saw people doing things she wanted to do them herself. One time as a toddler I found her watching a dvd and then chastised my oldest daughter (who was 6) for putting a video for her, and she defended herself saying that my youngest did it. So I asked her what she did and she showed me how to put a video in and play it, even though no one showed her how to do it! In the same way my brother was not interested in school subjects but is very handy (making models, rebuilding cars, upgrading or customizing his computer).

OTOH she's 4 going on 5 and still doesn't know her letters and gets confused counting past 4 : (.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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part gypsy|1310503444|2967486 said:
Regarding the crawling/language I find this hard to believe. My mother didn't crawl AT ALL (unknown to her mom she had a broken arm) went straight to walking. She is one of the most erudite people I know.
Crawling is not per se a developmental milestone. Some children skip it entirely.
Not to start any type of debate as I am not particularly invested in the issue either way, but this does not disprove the theory 8) The correlation accross a population would not predict any individual (e.g., your mother); with any population correlation there are exceptions. Those individual exceptions do not disprove the general correlation. Also, who knows how verbally gifted your mother *could* have been had she crawled? :cheeky: Crawling or not does not mean those who don't crawl are necessarily less verbal than others; it might mean though that if a given individual had crawled, their own particular verbal skills could be more developed than if they had not crawled. That is the true test of the theory, not identifying individuals who seem to flout the general correlation.

But this is all speculation on both our parts of course. There are no experiments where they randomly assign kids to crawl or not crawl, so causal links could never be drawn.
 

lizzyann

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WIth regards to the early walker - late talker theory, when my Lead Speech Therapist told me about that she explained that when some children walk early, their brains are focusing on walking only, gross motor only. By doing this, other skills like speech get delayed because the brain is not working on that...it is only fixated on walking. I'm sure that theory is not 100% across the board which is why many of you have said that your child was an early walker and an early talker. She also may have found that a good percentage of the kids that she works with for speech were early walkers which may be why she firsthand sees the correlation. But she only sees kids with speech delays ya know? So she doesn't see the kids who don't have speech problems and were also early walkers. Another interesting point she told me is that 80% of her kids in the program are 2 year old boys with speech delays.
 
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